Tripping public GFCI outlets.

[gschettl]

I'm finding that certain brands of GFCI outlets seem to trip within a few seconds of starting to charge my 2012 LEAF using the stock Panasonic 120 volt charger. My car is completely stock and there are plenty of GFCI outlets that it doesn't trip the internal breaker. The outlets I'd like to use are public (such as those on light posts at Menards stores) & therefore I can't swap them out or modify them. Is there any sort of adapter/conditioner I could use between my Panasonic charge cord and the outlet that would prevent the outlet from tripping its breaker? Note I can plug in a 1600 watt hair dryer to the same outlet without tripping it. I believe my LEAF draws about 1400 watts when trickle charging.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[TomT]

The problem is that standard GFCI outlets trip at 5ma which is often too sensitive. EVSEs use a 20ma trip... There really isn't much you can do about it...

I'm finding that certain brands of GFCI outlets seem to trip within a few seconds of starting to charge my 2012 LEAF using the stock Panasonic 120 volt charger. My car is completely stock and there are plenty of GFCI outlets that it doesn't trip the internal breaker. The outlets I'd like to use are public

 

[garygid]

Perhaps use an OpenEVSE and bypass the Ground Test
(that creates a ground current that might be tripping
these sensitive GFIs) when trying to charge at these
special locations?

I am not positive that this would "fix" the problem, but
if it is typically occurring in the first few seconds after plugging
in rather than sometime after charging has started, then it is
probably this Ground Test that is tripping the socket's GFI.

 

[cwerdna]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=87367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GlennD]

Perhaps use an OpenEVSE and bypass the Ground Test
(that creates a ground current that might be tripping
these sensitive GFIs) when trying to charge at these
special locations?

I am not positive that this would "fix" the problem, but
if it is typically occurring in the first few seconds after plugging
in rather than sometime after charging has started, then it is
probably this Ground Test that is tripping the socket's GFI.

Gary, The MID400's always draw current unless they or the resistors are removed. If sockets are installed then its easy to remove the chips.

 

[gschettl]

Thanks for the ideas but you might have to dumb it down for me. Can the ground test be bypassed by using a "lift" plug adapter with no ground conductor? Or what is an "open" EVSE?

What is a MID400, what unit has the resistors and what sockets are you referring to.

I'd really like to keep my EVSE & car stock. If I can't work around this with an adapter of some sort that can be plugged in when I need it, I might stop there since this is mostly over my head.

 

[MikeD]

gschettl: See if you can get another Leaf (from your dealer or another Leaf owner) to do some quick tests that might help determine where the problem lies. While at a problem charging station, tests like

1) You try charging with their portable EVSE on your Leaf.
2) You try charging with your portable EVSE on their Leaf.

The results may point to a problem with your portable EVSE that may be easily (if not inexpensively) remedied by replacement.

If the tests seem to point to the GFCI being at fault, point this out to the owner of a problem GFCI outlet and even maybe offer to pay for the cost of a replacement GFCI to see if that seems to fix the problem. If it does and there is more than one problem outlet there, my guess is that the owner will want to remedy them all.

 

[kubel]

My Panasonic unit has only tripped GFCI if I've used a cheap extension cord. OpenEVSE trips every time under every condition until I get around to disabling the ground test.

 

[Ingineer]

In theory an adapter could be made to eliminate this problem without circumventing safety, though it wouldn't be simple. We almost never have reports of nuisance tripping with our upgraded EVSE's. I was able to reduce the asymmetrical loading by altering the way the GFCI prove-out works in the R3 firmware.

Gary, where do you live? (You didn't indicate in your profile) I could see if we have any customers nearby that could try their units on one of those nuisance outlets.

-Phil

 

[wwhitney]

In theory an adapter could be made to eliminate this problem without circumventing safety, though it wouldn't be simple.

An adapter that would increase the ground resistance just for the first so many seconds, while the EVSE does its ground test? I'm not clear on whether that is safe enough. Or can one design an adapter that would add a resistance to the ground connection for small currents only, with no added resistance for larger currents?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Ingineer]

An adapter that would increase the ground resistance just for the first so many seconds, while the EVSE does its ground test? I'm not clear on whether that is safe enough. Or can one design an adapter that would add a resistance to the ground connection for small currents only, with no added resistance for larger currents?

Cheers, Wayne

Well, I've got a design that's very elegant and safe, but without giving away too much; Keep in mind all you need to do is ensure that any currents on the load lines are symmetrical, right?

-Phil

 

[gschettl]

I live in the Minneapolis area (and just updated my profile). The outlet(s) that always trip the GFCI are near the exit of the Eden Prairie, MN Menards store on light posts. I've been toying with the EVSE upgrade. The EVSE upgrade would be even more attractive if I could draw 220 volts from an out of phase non-GFCI quad outlet (we have one at work) without also buying a Quick 220 system for an additional $275.

 

[QueenBee]

I live in the Minneapolis area (and just updated my profile). The outlet(s) that always trip the GFCI are near the exit of the Eden Prairie, MN Menards store on light posts. I've been toying with the EVSE upgrade. The EVSE upgrade would be even more attractive if I could draw 220 volts from an out of phase non-GFCI quad outlet (we have one at work) without also buying a Quick 220 system for an additional $275.

You'll have to make your own or buy the Quick220. http://www.quick220.com/-P-103.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[XeonPony]

just get a 1:1 isolation transformer, a2Kw one will be way cheaper then any other weird or fancy bs, mind you heavy but not more then a bag of groceries.

All problems solved. < Cookie to who ever gets the movie reference!

 

[XeonPony]

I live in the Minneapolis area (and just updated my profile). The outlet(s) that always trip the GFCI are near the exit of the Eden Prairie, MN Menards store on light posts. I've been toying with the EVSE upgrade. The EVSE upgrade would be even more attractive if I could draw 220 volts from an out of phase non-GFCI quad outlet (we have one at work) without also buying a Quick 220 system for an additional $275.

You'll have to make your own or buy the Quick220. http://www.quick220.com/-P-103.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd buy that, that is if I couldn't make it off stuff I have laying on my bench!

fyi any compitent person can make that in less then half the cost given a couple days of learning online (Yes 2 days you really need to understand what your doing to be safe)

 

[DaveEV]

You'll have to make your own or buy the Quick220. http://www.quick220.com/-P-103.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd buy that, that is if I couldn't make it off stuff I have laying on my bench!

fyi any compitent person can make that in less then half the cost given a couple days of learning online (Yes 2 days you really need to understand what your doing to be safe)

If you want to build your own, use this thread:

Do It Yourself: 240v from two 120v sources

 

[Ingineer]

I live in the Minneapolis area (and just updated my profile). The outlet(s) that always trip the GFCI are near the exit of the Eden Prairie, MN Menards store on light posts. I've been toying with the EVSE upgrade. The EVSE upgrade would be even more attractive if I could draw 220 volts from an out of phase non-GFCI quad outlet (we have one at work) without also buying a Quick 220 system for an additional $275.

Be warned, that for a Quick220 type device to work, you need 2 outlets on opposing legs (different breakers each on an opposite "hot"). Typically a "quad" is going to have all outlets fed from the same single circuit.

-Phil

 

[XeonPony]

You'll have to make your own or buy the Quick220. http://www.quick220.com/-P-103.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd buy that, that is if I couldn't make it off stuff I have laying on my bench!

fyi any compitent person can make that in less then half the cost given a couple days of learning online (Yes 2 days you really need to understand what your doing to be safe)

If you want to build your own, use this thread:

Do It Yourself: 240v from two 120v sources

you miss understood, I can built it, it is super easy to build infact I all ready have every thing on hand to do it.. I just have not botherd as I yet to have any thing to properly controll the signal for the leaf. I was origionaly doing it so I could send high power levels over smaller cables then using an auto transformer to bring it back down to 120V, then I whent to 1.6Kv for transmission directly from the 120 and got rid of the cumberson set up.

But now I have the leaf I am thinking of re-assembling my system! and then modifying my Hv system! for fast charging, but I need to learn allot more about the control protocalls and other sub systems, making a few hundred Kw DC is easy, making it safe and bullet proof is the tricky part!

 

[XeonPony]

I live in the Minneapolis area (and just updated my profile). The outlet(s) that always trip the GFCI are near the exit of the Eden Prairie, MN Menards store on light posts. I've been toying with the EVSE upgrade. The EVSE upgrade would be even more attractive if I could draw 220 volts from an out of phase non-GFCI quad outlet (we have one at work) without also buying a Quick 220 system for an additional $275.

Be warned, that for a Quick220 type device to work, you need 2 outlets on opposing legs (different breakers each on an opposite "hot"). Typically a "quad" is going to have all outlets fed from the same single circuit.

-Phil

yup all ways check with a multimeter and assume nothing! My faverit is still the outlet that had all hot grounds the hot was nutral, we eneve did find where nutral whent!

and I think I'm going back to bed!

 

[MikeD]

I'm not familiar with what a "quad" circuit breaker necessarily implies, but I notice that all of the (7) Square D quad breakers available at Lowes are advertised as having 2 single-pole breakers and 1 double-pole breaker. Doesn't a double-pole breaker of necessity use two different phases? And it is also my understanding of Square D breaker boxes (I have hands-on experience with a "Square D QO" 200a box currently available at Home Depot), that those quads' two outer single-pole breakers must be of different phases as well. Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken!