"Trickle charging is not recommended for regular use"

[DarkStar]

Perhaps the pilot signal on L2 charging does more than we think it does? Maybe the L2 EVSE and the on-board charger work hand-in-hand to baby the battery pack a little better than on-board charger does standing alone (L1)???

Just a hunch...based on nothing but educated guessing.

The J1772-2010 specifications show the control pilot signal only regulates the maximum charging amperage. It doesn't even tell the vehicle what the voltage is, the vehicle has to automatically figure that out.

 

[Rat]

I plan to stick with L1 for the life of the car unless something happens to prove that a bad idea. I suspect that we are ultimately all beta testers on this issue. Around 2018 or so we will start to find out what driving and charging style works best/worst. There will be some packs that fail, or need maintenance, or underperform and with 20,000 or more on the road for 6 or 7 years by that point, the statistics will tell.

 

[DaveEV]

Perhaps the pilot signal on L2 charging does more than we think it does? Maybe the L2 EVSE and the on-board charger work hand-in-hand to baby the battery pack a little better than on-board charger does standing alone (L1)???

As DarkStar alluded to, it doesn't matter whether or not you're doing L1 or L2 - you still have a pilot signal regardless which tells the car the maximum amount of current available.

 

[garygid]

Going through the now-available (HUGE) on-line Service Manual may shed some light on many issues.

For example, it appears that two voltages (one from each cell pair) are read from each module, thus the voltages of all of the 96 2-parallel-cell pairs.

However, it appears that only 4 temperatures are read. So, detection of one module's overheating during charging MIGHT not be as good as it COULD be, if there was a temp. sensor inside each module.

Apparently some "current dumping" (for cell "capacity" equilization) happens for higher-voltage cells, seemingly when the LEAF is turned on. I guess that could help warm some modules.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Going through the now-available (HUGE) on-line Service Manual may shed some light on many issues.

For example, it appears that two voltages (one from each cell pair) are read from each module, thus the voltages of all of the 96 2-parallel-cell pairs.

However, it appears that only 4 temperatures are read. So, detection of one module's overheating during charging MIGHT not be as good as it COULD be, if there was a temp. sensor inside each module.

Apparently some "current dumping" (for cell "capacity" equilization) happens for higher-voltage cells, seemingly when the LEAF is turned on. I guess that could help warm some modules.

Link?

 

[garygid]

See the "LEAF Service Manual..." topic for the link to get 1-day access for $20 and download the 51 "pdf" files (about 84 MB, MANY pages, all in English).

 

[EVDRIVER]

See the "LEAF Service Manual..." topic for the link to get 1-day access for $20 and download the 51 "pdf" files (about 84 MB, MANY pages, all in English).

Is this the basic service manual or the full tech manual with all system specs, seems that would be closer to several hundred pages. I'm looking for the tech manual that lists every single wire in the car.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

See the "LEAF Service Manual..." topic for the link to get 1-day access for $20 and download the 51 "pdf" files (about 84 MB, MANY pages, all in English).

Is this the basic service manual or the full tech manual with all system specs, seems that would be closer to several hundred pages. I'm looking for the tech manual that lists every single wire in the car.

84 MB IS several hundred pages.

 

[garygid]

Tech Service Manual, appears to be several thousand pages.

Does it have every wire, or is it even complete yet ... do not know.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

It's the Service Manual. It has every connector pin-out in the entire car, and every service procedure.

It is particularly thorough in the area of the battery.

Note that it is not a "theory of operations" book that explains the performance curves and decision rationale.. it's a book of what the parts are, and how to test and replace each and every one.

 

[TomT]

One interesting thing I discovered in studying the schematics is that the Leaf has the same oddity that most other Japanese cars seem to have: The accessory outlet is off if the car is not "On" or in "Acc". Our Acura did the same and it is highly annoying if you want to charge a cell phone or such when the car is off. I will be rewiring the Leaf just as I did on the Acura.

 

[Jimmydreams]

One interesting thing I discovered in studying the schematics is that the Leaf has the same oddity that most other Japanese cars seem to have: The accessory outlet is off if the car is not "On" or in "Acc". Our Acura did the same and it is highly annoying if you want to charge a cell phone or such when the car is off. I will be rewiring the Leaf just as I did on the Acura.

Yeah, but leave your radar detector in the car in the "ON" position for a few days = dead battery. It's happened to me on a few occasions. (I drive slower now and don't need a radar detector).

To each his/her own, I guess.

 

[TRONZ]

I bet the LEAF is a real Nazi about keeping track of all its electronz.

 

[Nubo]

I've read that certain batteries actually charge better at higher rates vs. trickle-charging. This is due to the way that some chargers determine the charging cutoff point. For consumer-type rechargeable batteries, a "smart charger" will usually use a combination of Delta-V (change in voltage over time), and DT/Dt (rate of temperature change over time). Changes in these values are interpreted as "signals" that the pack has reached a certain state of charge. At very low current levels, these "signals" can be harder to detect and the charger may have to fall back to it's fail-safe method of temperature cutoff, resulting in some degree of overcharging.

This info comes from consumer-grade cells and I have no idea if this has any bearing on the LEAF battery chemistry or charging algorithms.

 

[garygid]

Well, if regular L1 charging causes some battery-life problems, Nissan should make it a LOT more clear to us.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Well, if regular L1 charging causes some battery-life problems, Nissan should make it a LOT more clear to us.

They didn't say it causes problems -- only that it's not recommended.

 

[garygid]

The true meaning of "if".

Nissan probably knows WHY L1 is "not recommended", but WE do NOT.

IF L1 charging "should" not be used, then WHY?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Well I am considering this topic to be closed and for anyone who signed the evse waiver then we already know why its not recommended. Its simply the time to recharge

 

[evnow]

Tricke charging is not recommended for regular use because it is too slow, IMO.

 

[LEAFer]

Tricke charging is not recommended for regular use because it is too slow, IMO.

If that is ALL there's to it, then fine. It's a customer decision that's based merely on convenience.

But if there's more to it ... Nissan better say so. Because I am in no mood to argue a few years down the line about the pack capacity warranty and a stingy Nissan getting back to me to say "we told you so ... L1 is not recommended." :x