The Dealer told me not to buy a Leaf

[SanDust]

I wouldn't be so critical of the dealer. There have been reports of a few Leaf owners in Chicago who have found the Leaf not to be usable during the winter when the range is significantly reduced. He may have been (over)reacting to this and simply trying to get you into a car he thinks will work for you.

I agree with the suggestion that the Volt would work better in your case. If you have time to charge during the day then you'll have time to recharge the Volt, and most of your driving will be in EV mode. If you don't have the time to charge then the worst that happens is you'll use a little gas. Having recently gotten a Volt, I've been surprised at how little difference there is between the ranges. On paper the Volt has a lot less range but because you can exhaust the battery without any real consequence there isn't as much difference as I though there would be. Forty miles does go fast, but if you can recharge during the day that will not be an issue. I also think your husband will probably like driving the Volt more, so if you ever need his car he'll be a happier camper.

The Leaf like all BEVs works best when people have very predictable driving patterns. The less predictable the more problematic and your driving needs don't seem that predictable (what if you had two clients a long way apart and you couldn't charge between sessions?). In summer you'd probably be fine but I'd think winter might pose challenges.

 

[mwalsh]

Given Chicago winters, I would personally wait on the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. 30+ miles EV only (under ideal conditions); ICE backup; and AWD. That would be the best vehicle for you, IMHO.

 

[kentuckyleaf]

Given Chicago winters, I would personally wait on the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. 30+ miles EV only (under ideal conditions); ICE backup; and AWD. That would be the best vehicle for you, IMHO.

Can you purchase one in the US? Might be a good replacement at the end of our lease.

 

[evnow]

Can you purchase one in the US? Might be a good replacement at the end of our lease.

Jan-2014. But, it is already on sale in Japan. Comes to EU in Nov.

 

[ebill3]

I'll be critical of the dealer. If they sell you a LEAF, odds are it will not be in their service bay except for yearly battery checks. If they sell you a Versa, they can expect to see it back for service. :|

 

[TonyWilliams]

In a nutshell, you will either become an expert very quickly with EVs, or you will start hating the LEAF just as quick.

Yes, you can make it work. Only you know how resourceful you are to find charging opportunities. Ordinarily I would automatically dismiss the whole idea with Chicago winters and 80 miles of range needed.

Also, the 2011-2012 LEAF will charge at about 12 miles per hour charging, as will the 2013 LEAF-S with the same 3.3kW charger. The 2013 LEAF-SL and LEAF-SV, and the LEAF-S with optional 6.0/6.6kW charge package, will charge at about 22 miles per hour. I absolutely do not recommend the 2013 LEAF-S for Chicago due to the lack of a the more efficient cabin heater on the 2013 LEAF-SL and SV.

You WILL be charging every day to meet these goals, which brings me back to quickly becoming an EV expert!!!!

Good luck!!

 

[Reddy]

I went to test drive a leaf and the owner told me, I shouldn't buy one. This is his reasoning but what do you guys think? I have a Nissan X-terra and I drive a lot of miles for my in home personal training business. It costs me between $250 and $325 in gas per month. I wanted a car that I can have a car note but not a gas note. I told the dealer that I can drive between 25 to 80 miles a day but it is not continuous because I usually come home at lunch or early afternoon and I might leave out again in the early evening and back at 8:30 pm. I thought the 2 to 4 hours, I'm home, I could charge the car. The dealer suggested the Versa but what do you guys think?

So does this mean that you can deduct the IRS mileage as a business expense at $0.50+ per mile? If so, then that's a huge benefit to driving an EV. I would definitely go for it. Save $300/mo in gas and reduce your taxes by $6000/yr, that would be nice.

Others have said most, but I will add that you will really like the Leaf, more so if you have a garage for pre-warming and charging. Doesn't everyone up North enjoy a nice toasty car every morning? You will be fine most days, some days will be a challenge, and some won't be possible at all (Chicago blizzard). Look for alternative charging stations around your route and work locations (http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. I would definitely go with the 6.6 kW charger, and the 50 kW quick charger package if you have any QCs along your travel route. Ask clients if you can plug in (this only gives you an additional 4-5 mi/hr but does help educate even more people to the benefits and needs of EVs). Switch to another vehicle if needed on especially long drive or cold days. Even with this, most likely you will always want to drive the EV first. And, as I have said before, don't let your SO drive it or you'll never get to drive it again. :lol: Or worse, you'll have another EV convert which means a second EV, and probably a Tesla.

Here's some more posts concerning similar questions:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=357&p=270733&hilit=+chicago#p270733
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11318&p=261077&hilit=+portland#p261077
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11506&p=265550&hilit=+chicago#p265550

Reddy

 

[Reddy]

I will check out the Volt also. I do have time between clients like 11am to 3pm or 1pm-3pm most days. What to do? I will research and test out both cars.

This should be easy unless everything conspires at once (e.g., 80 mi day, snow/wind/rain, no lunch charge, no enroute charging, etc.). Even so, I can't imagine that happening more than a couple of times a year. Get the Leaf with the 6.6 kW and QC package. Also, make sure to have 40 amp service for the home charger to get the full 6.6 kW charge rate. A couple of hours over lunch at 6.6 kW should give you another half of tank, making an 80 mile winter drive possible.

Another thing, you will need to "get comfortable" with driving down to zero miles, not every day, but once in a while. Plan a nice weekend driving to low & very low battery warnings (LBW, VLBW). After VLBW you have a few miles before "Turtle". After turtle, power is limited and you have maybe a mile (driving very slow) to make it to a charger. Don't push it past turtle. Also, make sure you are off the freeway and around home or charging stations for this "planned" emergency. Once you've done this a time or two, you will feel more comfortable driving down to the last battery bar. If you're not comfortable with this, or slowing down or turning down the heat when you really need some extra distance, then you may not be a good candidate for the Leaf. Remember, the outside world isn't a 75 F bubble. Plan for the worse, hope for the best, and likely you'll be somewhere in between, enjoying the ride.

Finally, read about other people's experiences (and no, you can't get the distances and efficiencies of those warm weather Leafs like CA, AZ, FL). I've done 80+mi around 30 F to turtle just to test my range, but I don't recommend it for routine travel. The 2013 will have a more efficient heater, but not below 20 F when it's really needed.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11505&p=266465&hilit=+turtle#p266465

Reddy

 

[Reddy]

In a nutshell, you will either become an expert very quickly with EVs, or you will start hating the LEAF just as quick.

Yup, listen to Tony. He may still be the Leaf "turtle" king, even though he's turned over the leaf for the RAV.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I forgot to suggest a Toyota Rav4EV.

It will easily do your planned trips with NO midday charging needed. Plus, it's a compact SUV much more like what you're currently driving. It has a LOT more power than a LEAF. The battery has a heater so that cold doesn't affect battery capacity. The heater, unfortunately, will really suck the power, but the battery is LITERALLY double the size of LEAF (41.8kWh usable vs 21kWh on LEAF). You can charge it in your home at 8.4kW / 9.6kW, or about 28.5 miles per hour of charging at 65mph consumption.

It can only be bought in California and shipped ($600-$1200). Only 3 color choices. Currently $51k minus $10,000 Toyota cash in SoCal, at 0%, minus your $7500 federal tax credit, plus whatever Illinois government handouts there are (currently $2500 in California up to $7500 in West Virginia).

The net cost of a Rav4 could be below $30k.

For the LEAF, Range Chart, Click Here.

For the Rav4 Range Chart, Click Here.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It can only be bought in California and shipped

What if she needs service?

 

[laurend1985]

I will check out the Volt also. I do have time between clients like 11am to 3pm or 1pm-3pm most days. What to do? I will research and test out both cars.

1pm - 3pm. Two hours charging. Assume the weather is bad, ice rain, defrost on full. You will not get 80 miles a day in this situation with a Leaf easily (it is not impossible, but it will take careful planning). If you keep the X-terra, you could just take it on the afternoon run, or on days where the Leaf would be marginal. If 90% of your days are 60 miles or less, with a two to four hour charging opportunity at lunch, you will absolutely LOVE owning a Leaf. If 80 miles days are more the norm than the exception, the Leaf might not be your favorite car ever. I think with a good backup ICE, you are on the Leaf's bubble. I really don't think there is a wrong answer, Leaf or Volt, if you keep the ICE. If you get rid of the ICE, a Volt or other plug in hybird, for sure.

I would charge it overnight, drive to my morning clients, come back in the afternoon charge it and then go to my evening clients and or boot-camp classes.

 

[laurend1985]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your support. I will not buy a new vehicle until the fall so that leaves me plenty of time to read and check out all my options. I do like the Leaf but I wish the X-terra was a hybrid, that would be my dream truck. I will study and test drive all of the cars and trucks everyone suggested.

 

[smkettner]

Even with the slow 3.3 kW charger of my 2011, midday charging goes a long way. I see no reason your plan would be that difficult with the new 6kW charging midday. Preheating the car and parking in an enclosed garage will go a long way to mitigate the issues in the cold. This is as long as you schedule in advance. If you are mostly on-call it may not work.

JMHO, and I live in mild So CA so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Volusiano]

The thing with 6kw charging is that while it's a given at home, if you're out and about at various clients', you'll realistically have access to 120V 12A only. So you're not going to get 6kw charging everywhere you go. So having a 6kw charger on the LEAF will not help much with in-between top-offs.

I think the Volt would be a better fit for you because you won't have to plan everything every day so tightly, especially if your days are not the same exact schedule everyday. Just top if off at night, use it during the day, opportunity charge on 120V wherever you can at clients' or what have you to get the most use out of the battery that you can, but if you run out of juice before you day ends, no big deal, the Volt would just transition to gas for you. No worry, no anxiety, no planning, not getting stuck anywhere.

 

[kubel]

I wouldn't be so critical of the dealer. There have been reports of a few Leaf owners in Chicago who have found the Leaf not to be usable during the winter when the range is significantly reduced. He may have been (over)reacting to this and simply trying to get you into a car he thinks will work for you.

I agree. This dealer is doing the OP a favor by suggesting another car. If you are in need of a car that can do 80 miles per charge and live in an area that experiences below-freezing conditions for most of the winter season, you shouldn't consider the LEAF. If you can afford the RAV4 EV, get it.

 

[LEAFfan]

Lauren, the sales guy was correct about not buying a LEAF. If you lease an SV or SL for two years, you will be ecstatic! Personally, I would never buy/lease any hybrid because I LOVE driving Green, helping the Environment, and not buying or using any gasoline, diesel, or CNG. However, I realize you may be different. I've driven over 18,000 miles so far in a LEAF, and have only paid a couple bucks for juice with only $15 for tire rotations and one tire repair (Discount Tire). The 6.0kW charger isn't twice as fast, but I would definitely get that and the QC Port. One other thing that needs correcting is if the orange Turtle appears, it limits the car to 25mph and to 1/2 mile or less. And as a poster pointed out, where would you get your RAV4 serviced? The only certified dealers are in CA because it's a CARB/Compliance car.
Remember too, Chicago may have more QCs available for LEAFs by the time you are ready.

 

[smkettner]

The thing with 6kw charging is that while it's a given at home, if you're out and about at various clients', you'll realistically have access to 120V 12A only. So you're not going to get 6kw charging everywhere you go. So having a 6kw charger on the LEAF will not help much with in-between top-offs.

I can drive between 25 to 80 miles a day but it is not continuous because I usually come home at lunch or early afternoon and I might leave out again in the early evening and back at 8:30 pm. I thought the 2 to 4 hours, I'm home, I could charge the car.

2 to 4 hours at home with 6kW will be significant. Especially if car is preheated in the garage.
I agree the L1 is practically useless for an on the road opportunity charge.

 

[Publius]

Simple solution: convince your husband that you deserve a Tesla Model S. Your 80 miles/day range will be of no concern, and even your BMW driving husband would enjoy driving it. The only disadvantage is that you might have to sell your house to afford it.

On a serious note, you may find it difficult to meet your driving needs in a LEAF, especially as the battery degrades or as your clients change. As an enthusiast, I think you could figure out a way to make it work. But ask yourself, are you willing to plan your charging in advance and decline clients outside of your range? Will you seek out public charge stations, drive slower on long trips, avoiding highways when necessary, turn off the heat in cold weather (especially in cold weather)? And are you willing to ask clients, family, and friends for an outlet to charge when in a bind, and will you be ready to trip their circuit breaker when something else on the circuit turns on or when the breaker is not sufficiently rated?

If you're just looking at the cost of driving the car and don't get excited about driving an EV for environmental reasons or simply because you get a kick out of driving electric, the LEAF may not be right for you. As much as I would like to say otherwise to advance the EV cause, that's my two cents.

 

[TonyWilliams]

It can only be bought in California and shipped

What if she needs service?

Take it to a Toyota dealer.