The Climate Reality Project - Great Info & Resources

[Herm]

... and nicotine was not addictive or harmful huh?

Nicotine keeps you skinny and free of Alzheimers, cigarette tar is what kills you, supposedly. People worry too much.

 

[AndyH]

No, it is not clear. Two different people can take the same basic information and come to two different conclusions as to what should, or should not, be done on the basis of that information.

Really? Is it not clear that when one attacks Mr. Gore's positions on the environment, they are also attacking the science on which those positions are based?

Gloves off. Permission to speak freely all around.

What in the world are you talking about, and on what world are you living? How can you see what is happening on this planet and not think that it's a problem?

 

[mywaracfirfoyff]

No, it is not clear. Two different people can take the same basic information and come to two different conclusions as to what should, or should not, be done on the basis of that information.

Really? Is it not clear that when one attacks Mr. Gore's positions on the environment, they are also attacking the science on which those positions are based?

Gloves off. Permission to speak freely all around.

What in the world are you talking about, and on what world are you living? How can you see what is happening on this planet and not think that it's a problem?

Yodrak and the thousands like him who hold similar views are living proof that it's much easier to spread confusion, uncertainty, and doubt then it is to educate.

A few huge, entrenched businesses have so much to lose once we come to our collective senses, that paying a few hundred million to keep people like Yodrak confused is small change.

Sadly Exxon Mobil has a substantial resource advantage over Al Gore, so we'll likely need to move humanity forward with the Yodraks of the world kicking and screaming instead of leading the way.

Edit: Oops, I was confused by the quoting. My tirade was supposed to be directed at Yodrak, updated.
Sorry AndyH.

 

[AndyH]

AndyH and the thousands like him who hold similar views are living proof that it's much easier to spread confusion, uncertainty, and doubt then it is to educate.

A few huge, entrenched businesses have so much to lose once we come to our collective senses, that paying a few hundred million to keep people like AndyH confused is small change.

Sadly Exxon Mobil has a substantial resource advantage over Al Gore, so we'll likely need to move humanity forward with the AndyHs of the world kicking and screaming instead of leading the way.

Welcome to the thread. Now that you've used three of the denier tactics to stir the pot, maybe you'd care to state your position and then put some facts on the table to support it?

 

[mywaracfirfoyff]

AndyH and the thousands like him who hold similar views are living proof that it's much easier to spread confusion, uncertainty, and doubt then it is to educate.

A few huge, entrenched businesses have so much to lose once we come to our collective senses, that paying a few hundred million to keep people like AndyH confused is small change.

Sadly Exxon Mobil has a substantial resource advantage over Al Gore, so we'll likely need to move humanity forward with the AndyHs of the world kicking and screaming instead of leading the way.

Welcome to the thread. Now that you've used three of the denier tactics to stir the pot, maybe you'd care to state your position and then put some facts on the table to support it?

I think this site covers most of the high level issues:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd need to lookup similar resources if you are holding misconceptions (and they're almost certainly misconceptions) which are not covered by that site.

Edit: Oops, I was confused by the quoting. My tirade was supposed to be directed at Yodrak.
Sorry AndyH.

 

[AndyH]

Edit: Oops, I was confused by the quoting. My tirade was supposed to be directed at Yodrak.
Sorry AndyH.

No worries - it catches all of us.

(standing down from red alert)

Add these to the list if you wish:
http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics
http://climatecrocks.com

 

[AndyH]

... and nicotine was not addictive or harmful huh?

Nicotine keeps you skinny and free of Alzheimers, cigarette tar is what kills you, supposedly. People worry too much.

LD50 is the dose administered that killed 50% of the rats.

I'm not sure most people will accept death as a viable option, but I'll certainly agree that eventually everyone will be skinny and free from Alzheimers.

No, buddy - it's not worry. I don't worry about losing rounds of Russian roulette, either, as I choose not to play. :lol:

 

[TRONZ]

... and nicotine was not addictive or harmful huh?

Nicotine keeps you skinny and free of Alzheimers, cigarette tar is what kills you, supposedly. People worry too much.

LD50 is the dose administered that killed 50% of the rats.

I'm not sure most people will accept death as a viable option, but I'll certainly agree that eventually everyone will be skinny and free from Alzheimers.

No, buddy - it's not worry. I don't worry about losing rounds of Russian roulette, either, as I choose not to play. :lol:

Now now Andy... don't go around spreading data you trouble maker.

 

[AndyH]

Now now Andy... don't go around spreading data you trouble maker.

Sorry. Bad airman - bad airman! Go to your room! :lol:

 

[Fabio]

Damn facts, why do they keep getting in the way! :lol: :lol:

Now now Andy... don't go around spreading data you trouble maker.

Sorry. Bad airman - bad airman! Go to your room! :lol:

 

[TRONZ]

LD50 is the dose administered that killed 50% of the rats.

BTW, you weren't suggesting that a 2.0 LD50 dose of Nicotine could kill Herm, Train or Yodrak, were you???

 

[Herm]

No need to kill me, I'm not a Denier, just an agnostic.. with proper persuasion I can be educated. A study grant or two, I have a yardstick and will go over to Miami Beach right now!

 

[AndyH]

LD50 is the dose administered that killed 50% of the rats.

BTW, you weren't suggesting that a 2.0 LD50 dose of Nicotine could kill Herm, Train or Yodrak, were you???

Not at all! But I did wonder of some of the 'survivor' rats ended up at the Heritage Foundation... :lol:

 

[TRONZ]

No need to kill me

No need or desire. In light of Andy's data... just wondering what dose of Nicotine would scare some people?

 

[Yodrak]

I never said what's happening is not a problem. Don't be putting words in my mouth.

I said that different people can reasonably see the problem differently based on the same facts. They can propose different solutions, and some proposals are more extreme than others. Some are extreme in one direction, such as Al Gore, some are extreme in the other direction - the deniers. The extremes influence where the middle will be found.

What in the world are you talking about, and on what world are you living? How can you see what is happening on this planet and not think that it's a problem?

 

[Fabio]

What are Al Gore's "extreme" proposals?

I never said what's happening is not a problem. Don't be putting words in my mouth.

I said that different people can reasonably see the problem differently based on the same facts. They can propose different solutions, and some proposals are more extreme than others. Some are extreme in one direction, such as Al Gore, some are extreme in the other direction - the deniers. The extremes influence where the middle will be found.

What in the world are you talking about, and on what world are you living? How can you see what is happening on this planet and not think that it's a problem?

 

[AndyH]

I never said what's happening is not a problem. Don't be putting words in my mouth.

I said that different people can reasonably see the problem differently based on the same facts. They can propose different solutions, and some proposals are more extreme than others. Some are extreme in one direction, such as Al Gore, some are extreme in the other direction - the deniers. The extremes influence where the middle will be found.

What in the world are you talking about, and on what world are you living? How can you see what is happening on this planet and not think that it's a problem?

Not putting a single word in your mouth! I asked the question because I'm trying to figure out how you see the problem. I want to understand.

I find it interesting that you appear to have defined the end points as 'Al Gore' and the 'deniers.' From what I've found so far, scientific consensus is in Al Gore's camp (well, actually it's the reverse), while the deniers, the Heritage Foundation, and some industry and Republican's positions are out in la-la land trying to move the 'center' off to the right (sound familiar?). Science defines the 'center of mass' - not the denier crowd. And artificial debate is ...artificial...

So - again - where are you on your self-imposed continuum?

 

[Yodrak]

A deceptively simple question, with a not so simple answer!

Again let me say that I agree the climate change phenomena is real, so I'm not at the 'denier' end of the spectrum where the arguement is that nothing needs to be done. Beyond that, let me think some more about how I might answer so as not to spark even more intense debate over what the solutions to the problem might be.

So - again - where are you on your self-imposed continuum?

 

[Fabio]

As usual the republicans are masters at marketing (e.g. I believe Bush/Cheney spent 3B dollars in marketing in their 8 years):
http://www.npr.org/2011/06/21/137309964/climate-change-public-skeptical-scientists-sure
"The American public is less likely to believe in global warming than it was just five years ago. Yet, paradoxically, scientists are more confident than ever that climate change is real and caused largely by human activities."
"Most Americans are unaware that the National Academy of Sciences, known for its cautious and even-handed reviews of the state of science, is firmly on board with climate change. It has been for years."
"[...] the public is largely unaware of the consensus because that's not what they're hearing on cable TV or reading in blogs.
'They mostly get exposed to a much more conflicted view, and that's of course not by accident,' ..."

I find it interesting that you appear to have defined the end points as 'Al Gore' and the 'deniers.' From what I've found so far, scientific consensus is in Al Gore's camp (well, actually it's the reverse), while the deniers, the Heritage Foundation, and some industry and Republican's positions are out in la-la land trying to move the 'center' off to the right (sound familiar?). Science defines the 'center of mass' - not the denier crowd. And artificial debate is ...artificial...

 

[AndyH]

... Beyond that, let me think some more about how I might answer so as not to spark even more intense debate over what the solutions to the problem might be.

Cool - I can respect that. For the record: "No" is a perfectly valid answer.