Tesla Supercharger Network

[evnow]

any possibility of firing Ecotality and hiring Tesla?

I think this proves what a lot of us have been saying - no one can make money from a charging infrastructure. That needs to be subsidized by some related business.

 

[DaveEV]

any possibility of firing Ecotality and hiring Tesla?

Probably not, but you can buy a Model S

Mitch already has one, but yeah, that's the way to go if you can afford it.

any possibility of firing Ecotality and hiring Tesla?

I think this proves what a lot of us have been saying - no one can make money from a charging infrastructure. That needs to be subsidized by some related business.

Well, Tesla is definitely in it to make money. The charging infrastructure is paid for - you pay for it when you buy your Tesla. Now Tesla may not aim to make a profit on charging infrastructure similar to how they are aiming only to make their service centers break-even, but then they have the disadvantage of having to build out an international high speed network all by themselves.

 

[scottf200]

It seems compared to other "quick charging" DC locations the Tesla SuperChargers have several stations at then vs 1 (or 2?).
---
http://www.teslamotors.com/about/pr...arger-network-delivering-convenient-free-long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TszRyT8hjJE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TszRyT8hjJE[/youtube]

TESLA DRAMATICALLY EXPANDS SUPERCHARGER NETWORK, DELIVERING CONVENIENT, FREE LONG DISTANCE DRIVING THROUGHOUT U.S. AND CANADA
THURSDAY, MAY 30, 2013
PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors today announced significant expansion of the Tesla Supercharger network. Supercharging enables Tesla Model S drivers to travel long distances, for free, indefinitely.

The expansion of the network builds upon the success of the Tesla Supercharger network that covers California and Nevada on the west coast and the Washington, DC to Boston region on the east coast. The Tesla Supercharger network has enabled an estimated 1 million miles of driving since going live in October 2012. Superchargers are designed for city to city travel, enabling Model S electric vehicle drivers to travel for about three hours, take a 20 to 30 minute break to grab lunch or a soda or coffee, and get back on the road charged up. For free.

With the accelerated rollout of the Tesla Supercharger network, Model S drivers can expect:

Triple the number of Tesla Supercharger stations by the end of next month, including additional stations in California, coverage of the northwest region from Vancouver to Seattle to Portland, Austin to Dallas in Texas, Illinois and Colorado. There will also be four additional eastern seaboard stations, expanding the density of the network to provide for more convenient stopping points.

Within six months the Tesla Supercharger network will connect most of the major metro areas in the US and Canada, including expansion into Arizona, additional stations in Texas, Florida, and the Midwest, stations connecting Ottawa to Montreal, and across North and South Carolina into Georgia. It will also be possible to travel diagonally across the country from Los Angeles to New York using only the Tesla Supercharger network.

A year from now, the Tesla Supercharger network will stretch across the continent, covering almost the entire population of the US and Canada. The expansion of the network will mean that Model S drivers can take the ultimate road trip -- whether that’s LA to New York, Vancouver to San Diego, or Montreal to Miami – without spending a cent on fuel.

In addition to the expansion of the Tesla Supercharger network itself, Tesla is improving the technology behind the Tesla Supercharger to dramatically decrease the amount of time it takes to charge Model S, cutting charging time in half relative to early trials of the system. The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes.

 

[GregH]

allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes.

THAT... is insane.
[edit] although I guess it's still slower than 48kW Chademo on a 24kWh Leaf.. (in terms of the battery, not miles per minute of charge)

 

[gigglehertz]

If Nissan is going to have a chance in hell against Tesla they are going to make the Quick Charge port standard, double the range of the Leaf, and put FREE QC's along the interstate, not in dealerships. Also make sure it is a nationwide rollout, and give owners of older models the option to upgrade batteries or either give huge incentives to switch to the new model entirely. Anything short of that just won't cut it and Tesla will crush them along with every other car company in the next 5-10 years. At least in the EV market.

Another idea is to partner up with them and somehow allow quick charging on a SuperCharger somehow, for a fee as opposed to free for Tesla drivers.

Either way Nissan has to come out strong with something pretty soon to counter this, or every single person that leased a Leaf is going to defect when their lease term is up.

 

[apvbguy]

If Nissan is going to have a chance in hell against Tesla they are going to make the Quick Charge port standard, double the range of the Leaf, and put FREE QC's along the interstate, not in dealerships. Also make sure it is a nationwide rollout, and give owners of older models the option to upgrade batteries or either give huge incentives to switch to the new model entirely. Anything short of that just won't cut it and Tesla will crush them along with every other car company in the next 5-10 years. At least in the EV market.

Another idea is to partner up with them and somehow allow quick charging on a SuperCharger somehow, for a fee as opposed to free for Tesla drivers.

Either way Nissan has to come out strong with something pretty soon to counter this, or every single person that leased a Leaf is going to defect when their lease term is up.

your ideas are very sound.

however economically it wouldn't work with FREE chargers, in order to make it viable for someone to build a network of chargers it would necessitate being able to profit from those charging stations. money would need to be paid either by the end user or by a manufacturer

 

[Stoaty]

Either way Nissan has to come out strong with something pretty soon to counter this, or every single person that leased a Leaf is going to defect when their lease term is up.

What have you been smoking? There is the small matter of a price differential, or didn't you notice that?

 

[gigglehertz]

See Blue Star. No smoke required.

 

[mitch672]

Actually the SuperChargers could eventually be licensed for other EV manufacturers to use, they would pay a one time "license fee" per car, for the life of that car. Randy Carlson wrote an article all about Teslas plans to monetize the SC network:
http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/1300141" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Randy]

Actually the SuperChargers could eventually be licensed for other EV manufacturers to use, they would pay a one time "license fee" per car, for the life of that car. Randy Carlson wrote an article all about Teslas plans to monetize the SC network:
http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/1300141" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love Elon's answer to that question today...<Transcript from the TMC website>


9. Quick speculative question. With such a massive SC network by 2015, are there any plans to open this up to other EVs?

It's a very high-powered charge. It needs to do this upper high speed tango with the pack. Without that, you can't charge at this rate.

60 times the average power used by a house. Average 2 kW. Supercharger 60 times that.

It's difficult to make that generic. It needs to know the pack.

We're not closed to the idea. Not trying to create a closed system as a strategy. We need to solve the problem of long distance travel, and we can't wait for others. Consensus would take too long.

Other manufacturers can either copy us or join us.

 

[gigglehertz]

Actually the SuperChargers could eventually be licensed for other EV manufacturers to use, they would pay a one time "license fee" per car, for the life of that car. Randy Carlson wrote an article all about Teslas plans to monetize the SC network:
http://m.seekingalpha.com/article/1300141" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hadn't read that before, interesting that they are already thinking ahead.

 

[mitch672]

Other manufacturers can either copy us or join us.

They are banking on "join us", if Tesla becomes the defacto long range EV, it would be much less expensive for other manufacturers to license their SC network than build out their own. It's also how Tesla grows and it becomes a true mass market player, with other manufacturers making compatible EVs

 

[Randy]

It'd be interesting to see what their per car "licensing fee" would be to use the SC network...

 

[mitch672]

It'd be interesting to see what their per car "licensing fee" would be to use the SC network...

If you read Randy's article I linked to, he's guessing at about $1,500 per car, and he states that's what Tesla is building into the cost of the 85KW Model S, and it's a $2K option on the 60 KW Model S

Randy's article is extremely detailed, even down to the level of estimating what each SuperCharger visit is worth. It's a good read if you have time.

 

[tbleakne]

Business Insider has maps of Supercharger deployment by end of June, 6 months, end of 2013, etc.

http://www.businessinsider.com/maps-of-teslas-supercharger-network-2013-5

 

[mbender]

I hadn't read that before, interesting that they are already thinking ahead.

I think "thinking ahead" is what Tesla does.

 

[tbleakne]

allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes.

THAT... is insane.
[edit] although I guess it's still slower than 48kW Chademo on a 24kWh Leaf.. (in terms of the battery, not miles per minute of charge)

120 kW at about 400V DC = 300A.
As you say, less than 1.5C, less than the 2C initial rate of Chademo on Leaf.

20 minutes @ 120 kW = 40 kWh. Presumably you would hop from station to station filling the 85 kWh battery from near empty to half-full to achieve this rate. Above half-full the charging rate must taper down. I have seen Tesla owners reporting that the rate drops to about 10 kW near the top.

The latest Superchargers that have been deployed already supply 120 kW, but before today this power was split between two hoses, with no single car getting more than 90 kW.

I wonder if there will be optional rate settings at slower rates. I would prefer to wait a few more minutes to avoid stress on the large battery pack. Of course if there are Teslas waiting to charge, they might take a dim view of someone charging slower. Does anyone know whether the 60 kWh pack supercharges at a proportionately slower rate ?

 

[Nubo]

Other manufacturers can either copy us or join us.

They are banking on "join us", if Tesla becomes the defacto long range EV, it would be much less expensive for other manufacturers to license their SC network than build out their own. It's also how Tesla grows and it becomes a true mass market player, with other manufacturers making compatible EVs

 

[aqn]

Actually the SuperChargers could eventually be licensed for other EV manufacturers to use, they would pay a one time "license fee" per car, ...

...and include a Tesla plug-ChaDeMO adapter with their cars?

 

[mitch672]

Actually the SuperChargers could eventually be licensed for other EV manufacturers to use, they would pay a one time "license fee" per car, ...

...and include a Tesla plug-ChaDeMO adapter with their cars?

It's way way more complex than just the physical plug, they'd need to use a similar battery chemistry, BMS, and pack size to what Tesla used, or the packs would burn up. Tesla has no interest in turning down the power for crippled packs, you'd have an angry mob forming waiting for SuperCharger slots.

Tesla has Chademo adapter plans for the Model S for the Japanese market, perhaps even Europe.

As far as using a SuperCharger to charge a Leaf through some type of Chademo adapter, see above, they have zero interest in slowing down their chargers.