So, owners what range are you getting ?

[gascant]

I agree with those who say range on the displays is sort of phony.

Over a commute, when you get regen, it puts back power, but it also causes an immediate recalc of how much range you will get and the overall number exaggerates the value of the regen.
that can be seen when you are regening on a city street then get on the freeway and the range drops -- not only cause you burned the regen but because you changed the divisor in the calculation.

i go about 55 miles rdtrp to work, 90% freeway, but some of that is in 20-40 mph jams. i do not cruise above 63 mph though i do do bursts of higher speeds. i use radio, and the ac when on freeway.
i charge to 80% and routinely get home with 20 miles left and two bars.
so i use 8 bars for about 7 miles a bar. I figure I can go 100 miles without a problem, if there is a charger at the other end.

I totally agree (after 2 weeks) with 7 miles/bar. It's been very consistent for me. But today I had an odd experience on my commute. I figured that traffic would be light going into the holiday weekend, so I decided to "treat myself" to the 30 mile commute in D mode. Well, despite a very normal and steady drive (almost no slow-down after getting onto the freeway), I arrived at the office with 75 miles range and 67% charge left. Normally, in ECO, I arrive with 58-67 miles and 58-63% charge left. Then, on the drive home, I arrived with 35 miles range whereas in ECO it is usually 28-32. Had 25% charge vs. 17-23.

Is D the new ECO ????

But of course, the weird thing is that I'm getting 4.7 mi/kWh overall per the car displays so that should be 9 mi/bar. Somebody's got a lot of 'splainin' to do.

 

[planet4ever]

Normally, in ECO, I arrive with 58-67 miles and 58-63% charge left. Then, on the drive home, I arrived with 35 miles range whereas in ECO it is usually 28-32. Had 25% charge vs. 17-23.

Where are you seeing these numbers? I thought percent of charge was always reported as one of only 13 possible values:

0, 8, 17, 25, 33, 42, 50, 58, 67, 75, 83, 92, 100

(i.e. 0 bars through 12 bars out of 12, rounded to the nearest percent.)

I don't see 63% or 23% in that list.

Actually, to spell out my suspicions, the difference between the 67% you saw today and 58% could be 0.0001 kWh if the numbers work the way I think they do and that is what it would take to hang on to the extra bar. The same goes for 25% vs. 17%.

Ray

 

[cashu2]

Everytime I have tried Eco mode on the freeway I have got crappy results, I use it all the way to the freeway then I put it in "D", I also cruise control @ 65mph and get good results.

 

[gascant]

Normally, in ECO, I arrive with 58-67 miles and 58-63% charge left. Then, on the drive home, I arrived with 35 miles range whereas in ECO it is usually 28-32. Had 25% charge vs. 17-23.

Where are you seeing these numbers? I thought percent of charge was always reported as one of only 13 possible values:

0, 8, 17, 25, 33, 42, 50, 58, 67, 75, 83, 92, 100

(i.e. 0 bars through 12 bars out of 12, rounded to the nearest percent.)

I don't see 63% or 23% in that list.

Actually, to spell out my suspicions, the difference between the 67% you saw today and 58% could be 0.0001 kWh if the numbers work the way I think they do and that is what it would take to hang on to the extra bar. The same goes for 25% vs. 17%.

Ray

Ray, I get the %charge left from the owners portal. Usually, during lunch, I log on just to see what it says, and occasionally I give a demo of the remote climate control. I'm assuming, maybe wrongly so, that Carwings is transmitting the computed state of charge (due to battery voltage?) with 1% granularity whereas the dashboard bar display has some algorithm to decide when to drop a bar (which, as you correctly point out, is 8.5% increments).

I've just gone in to look at my SmartMeter records and over 5 days I averaged 16.5 kWh for my daily commute of 61 miles. That includes the losses for dock and charger inefficiency (and of course, subtracts the 300 Watts that the house burns steady state between 12-5AM). It works out to 3.7 mi/kWh delivered. However, the dashboard energy efficiency tells me that I am averaging 4.7 mi/kWh. I'm not sure that there is 25% loss between the dock and the charger, so I don't know how much stock I place in the driving economy number. Earlier posts suggested that 3.5-3.7 mi/kWh delivered is normal.

Isn't it great that those of us who are new owners are treading the same ground as those who came before us in the first quarter of 2011? I'll do a few more drives in D to see how it compares with ECO.

 

[ttweed]

I'll do a few more drives in D to see how it compares with ECO.

Please do! Your report of greater range in D than in ECO mode is totally counter-intuitive and contradicts everything Nissan says in their literature. Can this be explained by the high percentage of freeway driving in your commute, somehow? Is ECO actually a negative effect in freeway driving, as cashu2 also seems to imply above?

We have been blindly putting the car in ECO and driving it everywhere that way, unless some burst of acceleration is required temporarily for some reason. We assumed this would maximize range. Is that not really true for a long freeway stint?

Thx,
TT

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I'm surmising here, but from the feel of it, putting the car in eco mode causes it to metaphorically "gear down", vaguely like compression breaking on an ICE, which in the case of an EV maximizes regeneration because it turns the motor into an alternator. I suspect that it does little to improve steady speed driving efficiency and is best used in stop and go where it also moderates acceleration. I'm going to keep going back and forth to get to know it better and after I put a few thousand miles on it I'll probably have a better sense of things. It also appears that the battery is holding a bit more of a charge now that i'm approaching the first 1,000 miles.

In highway driving, my speed seems to be the over arching factor in what MPK I get, more than CC or ECO vs D mode.

g

I'll do a few more drives in D to see how it compares with ECO.

Please do! Your report of greater range in D than in ECO mode is totally counter-intuitive and contradicts everything Nissan says in their literature. Can this be explained by the high percentage of freeway driving in your commute, somehow? Is ECO actually a negative effect in freeway driving, as cashu2 also seems to imply above?

We have been blindly putting the car in ECO and driving it everywhere that way, unless some burst of acceleration is required temporarily for some reason. We assumed this would maximize range. Is that not really true for a long freeway stint?

Thx,
TT

 

[gascant]

I'll do a few more drives in D to see how it compares with ECO.

Please do! Your report of greater range in D than in ECO mode is totally counter-intuitive and contradicts everything Nissan says in their literature. Can this be explained by the high percentage of freeway driving in your commute, somehow? Is ECO actually a negative effect in freeway driving, as cashu2 also seems to imply above?

We have been blindly putting the car in ECO and driving it everywhere that way, unless some burst of acceleration is required temporarily for some reason. We assumed this would maximize range. Is that not really true for a long freeway stint?

Thx,
TT

That's what I assumed, too. Hence my surprise at yesterday's result. I've been using D for short trips and errands, though, because I like the zippy feel to the car. So far it isn't killing my efficiency.

Maybe I should actually start keeping a log :lol:

 

[Willieworks]

Just got the car a week ago.

Seems in LA, using the zippy acceleration a bit, it's going to get about 70-80 miles on a charge. That's with no A/C use.


Starting SOC : 100%
Range (till battery low) : 70
Range (till turtle) : 80
Efficiency : miles/Kwh (from the dash, not carwings)
Driving : describe hwy/city/mixed/30-80 mph
Climate : none

 

[JessEV]

So I've had my Leaf for 2 days now. I live on a hill about 1500 ft up. I've done 2 round trips so far and I'm getting about 5 miles per bar for both trips. Dashboard says I'm doing 3.4 miles/kWh but my calc shows something more like 2.2 to 2.5 miles/kWh (hence the 5 miles/bar). Details:

Trip 1: charged to 100%
- to work 13.5 miles, myself only, with the first 5 miles downhill, started getting regen of 1 dot by mile 2 (no bars lost yet, didn't think I'd get any regen till after I lost more bars). Arrived at work with 2 bars less (10 bars left).
- went to lunch with 3 in the car 3.5 miles. Then 3.5 miles back. Forgot how many bars that cost, probably 1.
- went home, 13.5 miles, boy o boy that 1500 ft uphill cost a lot of bars. Ended up with just 5 bars, with the 6th bar lost just as I pull into my driveway.
So a total of 34 miles and 7 bars. 4.8 miles per bar.
Full disclosure, I did give it full 80kW pedal for a few spurts to 45 on hills and going to lunch, but all of this was city roads, backroads, no highway, never over 55.

Trip 2: charged to 80%
- from home to restaurant downhill 1200 ft, 17.5 miles, this time lots of regen going down hill since I was only at 80%. But I was on highway 280 for a solid 7 miles doing 63 when cresting slightly uphill (using 4 dots) and doing 69 when cresting slightly downhill (using 2 dots). And yes, I merged onto 280 with full pedal, all the dots were lit. The rest was city streets. Went back home on the exact same route. 35 miles total. I went from 10 bars (but it actually is probably closer to 9.8 bars) to 2 bars!!! 10 miles range left! No warning lights though. Wow. 35 miles, downhill, 14 miles freeway at 65ish, then back uphill and I used 7.8 bars? 35/7.8 = 4.5 miles per bar. 2.25 miles/kWh!!! That means I actually have only a range of 54 miles? I might have made a mistake somewhere so I will redo this. I will also cross check my miles/kWh numbers per #3 below.

Thoughts:
1. Why am I getting such low miles per kWh? Is it the hills? Is it that I gun it a little? As enthused as I am about this car, I am just a little disappointed that things are going to cut so close for my longer trips. Or that I'll need to granny it on the highways at 50mph just to get 70 miles out of it because it looks like now 50 miles is my normal max range.

2. Hoping that the battery will get "conditioned" over a few cycles and get better? Lets see how it goes. I hope it isn't as simple as my battery is already below 24kWh capacity.

3. Charging with the included L1 EVSE - didn't think I'd need L2 with a 27 mile commute. I know that some here are saying the L1 is only 75% efficient. So my next experiment is to measure exactly what goes in tonight after having dropped down to 2 bars (10 miles remaining) and recharging to 80%. From there I should be able to calculate:
- miles/kWh from wall
- miles/kWh stored in battery (battery kWh would be .75 from wall)
I will report back here and in the other thread about whether the battery capacity is really 24kWh.

Till tomorrow.
Jess

PS: Saw a Tesla Model S in black disguise tape whipping down 84 (Woodside) today! It is NICE! I'm jealous of its battery pack.

 

[planet4ever]

35 miles total. I went from 10 bars (but it actually is probably closer to 9.8 bars) to 2 bars!!! 10 miles range left! No warning lights though.

No warning lights expected at this point. With the April firmware upgrade (which all newer cars have) the first low battery warning comes some time after you drop to one bar. That doesn't mean you get less warning than the earlier cars did; it only means that the bars disappear more quickly.

Wow. 35 miles, downhill, 14 miles freeway at 65ish, then back uphill and I used 7.8 bars? 35/7.8 = 4.5 miles per bar. 2.25 miles/kWh!!! That means I actually have only a range of 54 miles?

Oops, bad assumption. It is not true that each bar represents 2 kWh. That might (or might not) have been nearly true before the upgrade, but as noted above the bars now disappear more quickly than they did before. I think it is safe to assume that each bar represents at least 1.5 kWh, and probably something more than that. It is not even known for sure at this point whether each bar represents the same amount of energy.

Let's assume for the moment that your dash m/kWh is correct at 3.4. I inferred from what you said that you haven't reset it, so that would be a combination of your two trips. (48.5 miles) / (3.4 m/kWh) = 14.26 kWh.

You used 7 bars the first day, and I would say somewhere between 7 and 9 bars the second day, so 15+/-1 combined. I must admit that this seems way too much, as it would mean only about 1 kWh per bar. Before you panic, though, try keeping track for several more days. You should also try resetting the m/kWh at the beginning of a day, and see if the resulting kWh/bar calculations are consistent.

Ray

 

[planet4ever]

I'm assuming, maybe wrongly so, that Carwings is transmitting the computed state of charge (due to battery voltage?) with 1% granularity whereas the dashboard bar display has some algorithm to decide when to drop a bar (which, as you correctly point out, is 8.5% increments).

Well, I certainly can't find any trace of your assumed 1% granularity while charging, though I guess it is possible the data might be managed differently when the battery is in a static state.

Friday afternoon I pulled into my driveway just one block after getting the (first) low battery warning. I plugged in with an 80% timer set to start ten minutes after midnight. Tonight I started collecting data from the Owners Portal:

8% 1 bar after plugging in - not charging
8% 1 bar at 12:08 AM - not charging
8% 1 bar at 12:17 AM - charging, 9 hrs 0 min to go
8% 1 bar at 12:25 AM - charging, 8 hrs 30 min
8% 1 bar at 12:34 AM - charging, 8 hrs 30 min
8% 1 bar at 12:42 AM - charging, 8 hrs 30 min
17% 2 bars at 12:50 AM - charging, 8 hrs 0 min
17% 2 bars at 12:58 AM - charging, 8 hrs 0 min
17% 2 bars at 01:07 AM - charging, 7 hrs 30 min
17% 2 bars at 01:15 AM - charging, 7 hrs 30 min
25% 3 bars at 01:24 AM - charging, 7 hrs 0 min
25% 3 bars at 01:32 AM - charging, 6 hrs 30 min
33% 4 bars at 01:42 AM - charging, 6 hrs 30 min
33% 4 bars at 01:59 AM - charging, 6 hrs 0 min
33% 4 bars at 02:09 AM - charging, 6 hrs 0 min
42% 5 bars at 02:18 AM - charging, 5 hrs 30 min
42% 5 bars at 02:26 AM - charging, 5 hrs 30 min
42% 5 bars at 02:33 AM - charging, 5 hrs 0 min
42% 5 bars at 02:40 AM - charging, 5 hrs 0 min
50% 6 bars at 02:48 AM - charging, 5 hrs 0 min
50% 6 bars at 02:55 AM - charging, 5 hrs 0 min
50% 6 bars at 03:04 AM - charging, 4 hrs 30 min

As you can see, the percentage values are all n/12 to the nearest integer where n = number of bars shown. I have to believe both of those representations come from the same highly granular data. Interestingly enough, the charging time, while not much more precise, is clearly coming from different data. My guess is that the value is being provided by the BMS. (It is also interesting that I appeared to do 4½ hours of "normal" charging in three hours, despite the fact that I was using Phil's 12A charger.)

There are two more data points on that Owner's Portal page which I was ignoring because they have seemed in general to be very unreliable. Those are the Estimated Driving Distance with and without climate control. But about halfway through this exercise I noticed that they, unlike the other values, seemed to be changing for every probe I made. I am left with the surprising conclusion that these values may be less accurate but yet more precise than the others! Here are the last six pairs of those values, corresponding to the last six charging lines above:

26/23, 27/23, 28/24, 29/25, 29/26, 30/26

Ray

 

[gascant]

As you can see, the percentage values are all n/12 to the nearest integer where n = number of bars shown. I have to believe both of those representations come from the same highly granular data. Interestingly enough, the charging time, while not much more precise, is clearly coming from different data. My guess is that the value is being provided by the BMS. (It is also interesting that I appeared to do 4½ hours of "normal" charging in three hours, despite the fact that I was using Phil's 12A charger.)

Agreed. I'll have to pay more attention to the values shown by the portal--whether they are increments of 8.5% or otherwise. I've not actually looked at it while the car the plugged in to the charging dock, but rather, when the car has been free standing. Well, except the first few mornings I'd log on at breakfast just to make sure it was charged. And then again, I'm trusting all my reported observations to my memory :lol:

 

[mark13]

I know im averaging into the 130s doing the spring but that is about to drop to between 110-120s when the temps are going to be between 105-115 and the AC will be on 100% of the time.. I will also have my eye on the battery temp gauge..

 

[SnaxMuppet]

I know im averaging into the 130s doing the spring but that is about to drop to between 110-120s when the temps are going to be between 105-115 and the AC will be on 100% of the time.. I will also have my eye on the battery temp gauge..

Is this miles?

I cannot see how anyone can get this kind of range. Here in the UK I am getting a max of about 90 miles but that is to the "---" and no bars left.

Terrain is mixed with moderate hills. Temps in the low 50s.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
I routinely charge in 60% of the estimated time. I think the flash update P1213 adressed one issue of reserve capacity but did not scale all the calculations in the system. I don't really care, I just require it to be consistent which my car is not.

 

[mark13]

This what I did a few weeks ago ..http://www.flickr.com/photos/60416291@N00/5764364886/ I have said may times that coasting is very impotant to extending the miles per charge..
At 1400 miles Im avgeraging 5.7 M/KWH

 

[Herm]

I have said may times that coasting is very impotant to extending the miles per charge..At 1400 miles Im avgeraging 5.7 M/KWH

In other words drive like you dont have brakes or regen.. any other hypermiler techniques you are using?.. and what is your average speed?.. probably below 40mph my guess.

 

[evnow]

This what I did a few weeks ago ..http://www.flickr.com/photos/60416291@N00/5764364886/ I have said may times that coasting is very impotant to extending the miles per charge..
At 1400 miles Im avgeraging 5.7 M/KWH

Cool.

 

[healy100]

Just got my car and completed my first range test and very disappointed and little confused. Got home today with 23 miles remaining and 2 red bars left after having driven a total of only 64 miles. I charged to 100%. All in town driving over a 3 day period at speeds of 25 to 40 mph on mostly flat roads hypermiling all the way and a good amount of regen breaking with no climate control on. 74 degree temps.Oddly I'm averaging 4.5 miles per Kw on Carwings so the math isn't adding up. Nissan calculates that at those speeds and conditions I should be getting around 100 miles. Many owners who drive mostly freeway miles state they are getting better ranges then me. Wonder if I got a lemon?

 

[mark13]

I just hit the 2000 mile mark and Im now averaging 5.8 M/KWH and cough cough my avg speed is 24.8 milers per hour..That has to be from all the coasting i do going into red lights..My 60 mile round trip to work and back has 2X29=58 traphic lights..

2 years from now when the Leaf hits close to 30000 miles,I would love to see the mechanics eyes when he looks at my brakes and says WOW (no wear and tear)..The ECO mode slows down the car so much that brakes are sometimes not even needed..