Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2!

[DarkStar]

Does this mean the 3 prong dryer outlets (NEMA 10-30) will be wired without a ground?

Is that dangerous?

No, they are wired without neutral. What it means though is that the device should always be pulling current across the two hot legs and never between hot and ground (for 120 volts). Older installations are grandfathered in, however modern installations would need to use a four prong outlet if they want 120 volts for anything (pulling across hot and neutral).

 

[gascant]

Does this mean the 3 prong dryer outlets (NEMA 10-30) will be wired without a ground?

Is that dangerous?

No, they are wired without neutral. What it means though is that the device should always be pulling current across the two hot legs and never between hot and ground (for 120 volts). Older installations are grandfathered in, however modern installations would need to use a four prong outlet if they want 120 volts for anything (pulling across hot and neutral).

OK, so does that mean that if we want to make a L6-20 to 10-30 adapter, we wire the G on the former to the Neutral on the latter? Or do we just hook up the two hot wires? I wouldn't think it's the latter because you would never want the case to become hot (assuming Phil's set it up with the case being grounded).

Is it safe to assume the following:
if L6-20 to 3 wire , hook the G wire to either W or G on the adapted end
if L6-20 to 4 wire, hook the G to G and leave the W to float?

 

[garygid]

gascant,
You have it correct: L6-20R G goes to the Plug's Ground pin if there is one (in all plugs except the 10-series, which were replaced by the 14-series in 1996).

In wiring the 10-series plugs (that do not have a ground) for use with a 10-series socket, it is really BEST to replace the older 10-30R socket with the newer grounded socket 14-30R. However, when that is not feasible, wiring the L6-20R Ground to the 10-30P Neutral ("W"), is what many folks do.

 

[gascant]

Thanks, Gary.
Always gotta think about safety.

 

[electriclarry]

Was it EV Geek who was selling the modified plugs? dryer outlet to evse

 

[LEAFer]

Was it EV Geek who was selling the modified plugs? dryer outlet to evse

Yes. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3085

 

[tbleakne]

How common are 15A breakers out there? My only data point is that our service panel dates back to 1981 and 20A is the smallest we have. >>>

All the residential outlets I have seen (and I have been looking since this issue surfaced some months ago) appear to be 15A (NEMA 5-15R) All the outlets in my house are 15A, with 15A breakers. I do have an older house (1960), but even in homes < 10 years old I have only seen 5-15R receptacles.
>>>>>>>>>>
I feel 15A outlets are much too common to give up the 12A option for use with Quick220.

I just visited a 1979 house that has 15A breakers, so that narrows it down.

As "wwhitney" has pointed out, it is OK to have a 20A circuit feeding multiple 15A receptacles, and the NEC only requires a 5-20R receptacle on a dedicated 20A circuit.

Since the folks I plan to visit with the Leaf all have dryer outlets, I now realize I don't need the 12A @ 240V option. I agree that if for simplicity we have only one current level at 240V (and 12A at 120V), that one level should be 16A.

 

[jbreiden]

I'm planning to pay an electrician to install a brand new L6-20 outlet. Nothing particularly tricky involved. Outlet would be on opposite side of wall from breaker box.

1) Does the breaker need to be GFCI?
2) Is ~$600 a sane price for such work? (~$200 of that is for the permit)

 

[davewill]

I'm planning to pay an electrician to install a brand new L6-20 outlet. Nothing particularly tricky involved. Outlet would be on opposite side of wall from breaker box.

1) Does the breaker need to be GFCI?
2) Is ~$600 a sane price for such work? (~$200 of that is for the permit)

It sounds good for a basic install. You might find it cheaper, but who wants the lowest bidder working on their house? The more important question is can you trust the guy...and run from anyone who says you don't need a permit. The EVSE has GFCI built into it, so no real need, but your local building code may require it depending on where it's being installed. Anyway, it seems like cheap insurance against someone getting a jolt while standing on a wet garage floor sometime in the future.

 

[jbreiden]

Electrician said GFCI devices should not be cascaded.

 

[QueenBee]

I'm planning to pay an electrician to install a brand new L6-20 outlet. Nothing particularly tricky involved. Outlet would be on opposite side of wall from breaker box.

1) Does the breaker need to be GFCI?
2) Is ~$600 a sane price for such work? (~$200 of that is for the permit)

That's a better question to ask your electrician and inspector but being that it's 240volt and a dedicated circuit you shouldn't be required to have it be GFCI even though it's in the garage where a normal outlet would. GFCI breaker would not hurt besides costing and being more complicated though.

$200 for the permit is double what I paid and that was for a job that was probably 10 times the cost (BLINK charger install). $400 seems with in reason for a professional electrical contractor. Little jobs like that are hard to value since it should be so quick but you have to include some buffer for the unexpected and then just the job overhead alone. (Estimating the job, pulling the permit, invoicing, accounts receivable, etc).

This real life example shows how the Rev 2 upgrade is very cost effective. You can get level 2 charging installed for roughly the same or less than just a level 2 EVSE alone.

 

[QueenBee]

Electrician said GFCI devices should not be cascaded.

I'm not really sure what the logic behind that is. Lots of devices have their own GFCI protection, for example hair dryers/portable air conditioners/EVSE/etc., but I'm sure he isn't saying you shouldn't plug your hair dryer into a bathroom GFCI outlet.

If it were my house and the inspector/local code did not require it I would prefer not to have it be GFCI because it would cost less, eliminate possible nuisance trips, and reduce future maintenance when the GFCI inevitably fails. As far as safety I don't think it really adds very much since essentially the only thing it would be protecting is the plug and cord which if properly maintained should not be an issue.

You could make the argument that in the future someone could plug a special extension cord into the outlet and use it for purposes that should have GFCI protection but of the EVSE installs I've seen that hasn't been a concern in a garage.

 

[davewill]

You could make the argument that in the future someone could plug a special extension cord into the outlet and use it for purposes that should have GFCI protection...

That was my thought, but I wouldn't lose sleep over not having it. After all, those twist-lock plugs are about as foolproof as they come. Mainly, I would install whatever the electrician or inspector said to.

 

[rclams]

$200 for the permit is double what I paid and that was for a job that was probably 10 times the cost (BLINK charger install).

Not to mention that as the owner YOU can pull the permit and pay any fee directly. Part of that $200 is an administrative charge to do what you can do for free.

 

[patrick0101]

My rev 2 EVSE Upgrade arrived today. I did 3 quick tests, all passed. The three tests were:
1) plugged into a standard 120V
2) plugged into a 240V outlet
3) plugged into my quick 220 (sourced by 120V 15A)

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the 120V 20A outlets that I have access to are GFI/GFCI and the Quick 220 does not work with them.

For test #2, I actually used the Blink plugged into a converter to give me a NEMA 14-50, then the Rev 2 (via a couple adapters) was plugged into the 14-50.

I am leaving setup 3 running to see if the circuit breaker pops.

 

[mwalsh]

I am leaving setup 3 running to see if the circuit breaker pops.

Nice! Assume that's with a load on it (ie: charging the car)?

 

[wwhitney]

My rev 2 EVSE Upgrade arrived today. [. . .]
3) plugged into my quick 220 (sourced by 120V 15A) [. . .]
I am leaving setup 3 running to see if the circuit breaker pops.

There's a good chance that a 15A breaker will hold indefinitely at 16A. They are designed to hold indefinitely at 12A at 40C ambient temperature; if the ambient temperature (in the breaker panel) is sufficiently lower, or if the breaker tolerance is sufficiently wide, then it will hold. Having said that, it would definitely be a bad idea to do this every day.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Volusiano]

My rev 2 EVSE Upgrade arrived today. [. . .]
3) plugged into my quick 220 (sourced by 120V 15A) [. . .]
I am leaving setup 3 running to see if the circuit breaker pops.

There's a good chance that a 15A breaker will hold indefinitely at 16A. They are designed to hold indefinitely at 12A at 40C ambient temperature; if the ambient temperature (in the breaker panel) is sufficiently lower, or if the breaker tolerance is sufficiently wide, then it will hold. Having said that, it would definitely be a bad idea to do this every day.

Cheers, Wayne

For long-term regular charging then for sure you want to make sure you find 20A. But if it's temporary opportunistic charging at some place outside the home then it's OK if it holds until you're done charging. You'll just risk popping the breaker and make somebody mad.

 

[Ingineer]

Ok, we are now accepting orders for existing customers with Rev1 units to get the Rev2 upgrade. BUT: We are only going to ship on Monday, June the 6th. We will be devoting this weekend to upgrades for existing customers to satisfy demand. If your unit is received after this, it will have to wait until we do our next Rev2 session, which has not been decided yet. Let's see how this goes first. If you are outside of Northern California, I apologize as you will have to ship faster than ground in order to make the deadline, but we just can't help it, we are too busy right now to do this any other way. I hope everyone understands!

There is an ordering button for this at the bottom of the order page on the web site.

Also Note: We will be closed from June the 17th - July the 11th, so any orders received during that time will just sit here until we re-open. Please do not ship us units during this time!

Thanks!

-Phil

 

[mwalsh]

Ok, we are now accepting orders for existing customers with Rev1 units to get the Rev2 upgrade. BUT: We are only going to ship on Monday, June the 6th.

Mine is on the way! I put an extra $5 in the package....it's not a tip, simply that I didn't have enough in my eBay/PayPal specific checking account, and not enough time to move any money into it, so I funded with a credit card and didn't want you to be on the hook for the extra fees.