Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2!

[mwalsh]

But I have 3 outlets on the left of the stove, serving that side of the countertop, which are not GFCI, and are not part of the other circuit mentioned above.

According to your statement, these 3 outlets are not up to code then because they're not GFCI? If so, how did they pass the electrical inspection? My house was built by a big home builder in 1996.

In my house, those on the left of the stove are also GFCI, on the same circuit as the island/right of the stove. The exception is the outlet that the microwave is on. But that outlet is up high and inside a kitchen cabinet, so probably exempt from the requirement. House built in 2000 by Centex.

Edit: Just checked the rest of the kitchen outlets....the one beside the fridge, the fridge outlet itself, one pair on the very far side of the kitchen, closest to the family room, and the outlet for the garbage disposal are not on GFCI either. The garbage disposal one was a bit of a surprise. I felt sure, being as it's directly under the sink, that it might be.

 

[TEG]

Maybe you tripped a thermal shutoff? Have you tried letting it cool for a few hours and try the Avcon again? If that doesn't do it, perhaps there's a thermal fuse that blew and can be replaced? I would hope the charger was designed to protect itself against thermal overload rather than just fail.

It still fails to charge days later. I now have taken the charger out of the truck. (It is a heavy large beast of a component.)

Yep, the fan on the bottom of the RangerEV charger says it is 230V.

I need to get the right kind of star bit to open the loads of small screws that hold the lid on before I can see what it looks like inside.

 

[wwhitney]

But I have 3 outlets on the left of the stove, serving that side of the countertop, which are not GFCI, and are not part of the other circuit mentioned above.

According to your statement, these 3 outlets are not up to code then because they're not GFCI? If so, how did they pass the electrical inspection? My house was built by a big home builder in 1996.

Those three outlets serve kitchen countertops, and therefore are required to be GFCI protected. I'm 99% sure that requirement was in force in 1996. So either there is a GFCI device upstream of those receptacles that has failed, or the outlets have been changed post construction, or the original construction was not NEC compliant. Mistakes happen.

If you wish to rectify this, the simplest way is to determine which of the three receptacles is upstream of the others, and replace it with a GFCI receptacle with the downstream conductors on the load side of the GFCI receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[garygid]

Is a "kitchen counter" just ANY flat space, ...
even if it is not near anything else, or (in an "open" plan) the side of a "bar" that is "away" from the kitchen, or an island, or a chopping block, or a china cupboard with a "counter" area ...
What is a "counter" for this GFI purpose?

How "near" the "counter" does the socket need to be?

Is it only above-counter, or are under-counter also included?

Dishwasher, Refrigerator, and Garbage Disposal outlets included?

Presumably, older houses, when sold, do not need to be brought up to full compliance with ALL the new codes, right?

 

[wwhitney]

Is a "kitchen counter" just ANY flat space, ...
even if it is not near anything else, or (in an "open" plan) the side of a "bar" that is "away" from the kitchen, or an island, or a chopping block, or a china cupboard with a "counter" area ...
What is a "counter" for this GFI purpose?

The NEC does not define "counter", so it is up to interpretation. In an open plan it is up to you and the building department to draw the boundary of the kitchen. Certainly islands in the kitchen require a receptacle which must be GFCI protected.

How "near" the "counter" does the socket need to be?
Is it only above-counter, or are under-counter also included?

See NEC 210.52(C) for the details. For the usual case of a section of wall countertop greater than 12 inches wide, you need to provide enough receptacles so that every point of the countertop is within 2' horizontally of a receptacle. The receptacles need to be 0-20" above the countertop. For other cases, like islands, there are other rules.

Dishwasher, Refrigerator, and Garbage Disposal outlets included?

Only the receptacles serving the countertop are required to be GFCI protected.

Presumably, older houses, when sold, do not need to be brought up to full compliance with ALL the new codes, right?

Not as a general matter. A local jurisdiction could impose some rules like this.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DaveEV]

Cheers, Wayne

Anyone else enjoy having an electrician who knows what he's talking about on the board? I sure do - thanks Wayne!

 

[Ingineer]

Well, I tried charging the old NiMH ranger from the Leaf EVSE at 120V...and... blew up the charger in the ranger... :x
Now it just makes a loud buzzing noise and doesn't charge even on the old 240V Avcons...
I think that was about a $1600 mistake plus labor to replace the charger if I can even find one anymore.

Apparently the Ranger is 240v only, but it would be a really poorly engineered charger if a low voltage actually caused damage. Sorry to hear of your situation. I'll be happy to look at the charger for you if you can get it to me, It can probably be repaired for a reasonable sum, much less than $1600!

-Phil

 

[TEG]

I have the charger out of the truck now, and will be taking it apart soon to see if something obvious inside is fried.
There is a guy in Oregon who collects those old trucks and does his own repair who offered to let me parts swap off of some old charger boards he has stashed in his garage. If I can't figure it out myself, I might get in touch with you, or just ship the circuit boards up to Oregon.

We should probably take this 'offline' for any followup... I will PM you with my email.
[Edit: PM attempt said 'Some users couldn’t be added as they have disabled private message receipt.'
Perhaps you could PM me with your preferred email so I can write you there. ]

 

[wwhitney]

Anyone else enjoy having an electrician who knows what he's talking about on the board? I sure do - thanks Wayne!

I'm not an electrician, just a dedicated owner builder who has rewired his whole house with permits under the California Electrical Code (which is largely identical to the National Electrical Code). Plus I used to follow an electricians board The NEC is freely available for perusal on the web, so anyone who wants to double check me can read the direct text. [Although local jurisdictions may have their own amendments.] Of course, if you are not familiar with the document, it can be difficult to find the answer to a specific question, so asking someone more familiar with it to point you to the relevant sections may be helpful.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DaveEV]

I'm not an electrician, just a dedicated owner builder

You seem to be more knowledgeable about the NEC than most actual electricians I've met, then!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I checked my kitchen and the only one not gcfi is the socket where fridge is plugged in. I have a u shaped counter where one leg is a breakfast bar setup and there is socket on family room side of bar that is also protected. My disposal and microwave are hardwired or at least installed to the poont where there is no visible plug.

All this sounds like "creative intreprtation " of potential of water exposure.

We have

 

[johnr]

I don't believe anybody here has actually tried a rev 2 unit on a 15a circuit with quick220. The 16a max of the EVSE is so close it might well work without tripping the breaker - it depends on how finicky the breaker is. Making maters more complicated, it's not uncommon to see household plugs on a 20a circuit, even though the plug itself is technically rated for 15a. If you're the only high load devices on such circuits you'd be fine. As for your L6-15 at work, same thing probably applies there too, although dedicated outlets usually are breakered at or below the plugs rating. There's really only one way to find out. The worst that should happen is you pop the breaker. If it's a dedicated outlet, no big deal. If it isn't, you may piss some people off... :shock:

I've done it successfully on four separate occasions. In each case for several hours and all went well with no overheating. The other two times I tried, the outlets were obviously GFCI protected - as soon as I plugged in the EVSE, the outlet lost power. AFAIK a lot of these standard 15 amp outlets are protected by 20 amp breakers, so as long as nothing else is running on the same circuit and the connections are secure, there should be no trouble.

BTW, maybe it's time to split off some of this OT stuff?

 

[fooljoe]

So it turns out what I thought was an L6-15 outlet is actually an L7-20 or -30 (sadly I didn't realize this until I received the L6-15 plug I ordered from Amazon and saw that it was way too small). So I guess I don't have to worry about tripping the breaker anymore, but now there's a new concern: Is it safe to try the upgraded EVSE on 277 volts?

 

[Ingineer]

So it turns out what I thought was an L6-15 outlet is actually an L7-20 or -30 (sadly I didn't realize this until I received the L6-15 plug I ordered from Amazon and saw that it was way too small). So I guess I don't have to worry about tripping the breaker anymore, but now there's a new concern: Is it safe to try the upgraded EVSE on 277 volts?

Definitely Do Not attempt to use the EVSE on 277v!!! Not only will this likely destroy your EVSE (and void the warranty), but it could also destroy the LEAF's on-board charger.

The maximum tolerable operating voltage of the EVSE is 240v (+/- 10%) or 264v.

That being said, 277v outlets are pretty rare, used mainly for lighting applications for hanging light fixtures. Are you sure you have a L7-xx outlet configuration? Where did you find this outlet? It would only be in large industrial/office buildings with 480v power. I recommend measuring the voltage before assuming anything.

-Phil

 

[fooljoe]

At first I thought it was an L6-30 because the prong diameter seemed a bit larger than the L6-20 on the EVSE, but then I realized the dog-leg on the ground prong pointed out instead of in. A quick google image search is what led me to initially assume L6-15, as I wasn't even aware that L7-xx existed. However, when I got my L6-15 plug in the mail today the prong diameter seemed much too small. Another image search is what then led me to assume L7-20 or -30. I'm just going off my visual memory of the receptacle so I'll try to see if the L6-15 fits tomorrow morning, but I doubt it. And I'll take a voltage tester to it when I get the chance, just to be sure.

This is in the parking lot at my work, which is a medium-sized office building with some engineering labs and such, so the L7-xx doesn't seem that unlikely. Sigh, the search for a suitable place to plug in at work continues. Or maybe I could make an adapter with a step-down transformer, if I were really ambitious...

 

[fooljoe]

Well, I was wrong once again, it seems. I overlooked another *minor* detail, which is that the dog-leg on the ground is on the clockwise side of the prong on the L7-xx, while my mystery outlet has it on the counter-clockwise side. Further research leads me to conclude it's an L9-30 now. So 600V at 30a. Haha that would fry my EVSE/Car pretty quick I imagine. Voltage tester seems to indicate it's not even live anyways.

 

[Volusiano]

Wonder why it looks so dirty. Isn't the top part of it (not showing in the picture but appears to be connected to what looks like a hinge) a cap to cover it up?

 

[z0ner]

fooljoe, can't you just take a voltmeter to it?

 

[fooljoe]

Wonder why it looks so dirty. Isn't the top part of it (not showing in the picture but appears to be connected to what looks like a hinge) a cap to cover it up?

I have no idea why it's there, but it's apparent it hasn't been used in some time. Yes there's a cap, but it's not a perfect seal.

fooljoe, can't you just take a voltmeter to it?

I have a non-contact voltage tester that didn't pick up anything from it, so I assume the breaker's off, which would make sense as it probly hasn't been used for decades. I was going to ask our facilities people to turn it on for me, but since it looks like it's a no go for charging anyway I'll forget about that.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Don't use any outlet unless you are certain you know it's voltage.