Rapid battery degradation in new 2015 S?

[NasGoreList]

This is second Leaf I own so I am not newbie. my 2014 S got totaled in Jan so I bought new 2015 S. After first charge at home everything looked normal for brand new 2015 with 291 GIDs , 63.35 Ahrs and 22.55 kWh capacity, however every subsequent check revealed quick deterioration across the measured battery parameters.

Do I have bad battery in this leaf?

I lost 6Ahr and 2kWh with just 1000 miles on the odometer?


Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/11/2016.....291.....22.55.....96.94.....95.61.....97.53.....63.35.....62.6.....30
1/16/2016.....277.....21.47.....97.22.....89.11.....90.95.....59.04.....60.....145
1/30/2016.....273.....21.16.....96.94.....87.96.....89.59.....58.28.....52.3.....451
2/19/2016.....268.....20.77.....97.21.....86.14.....87.08.....57.07.....54.6.....975


here are the same stats for my 2014 leaf which I put 17000 miles on

Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/9/2015.....260.....20.15.....96.0%.....92.0%.....93.0%.....60.72.....51.....7500
2/7/2015.....265.....20.54.....96.8%.....92.4%.....94.4%.....61.24.....50.....8200
3/5/2015.....268.....20.77.....97.0%.....93.3%.....95.3%.....61.80.....54.....8948
4/4/2015.....259.....20.07.....96.9%.....90.1%.....91.2%.....59.70.....68.....9948
5/3/2015.....261.....20.23.....96.9%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.34.....69.....10850
6/13/2015.....260.....20.15.....97.0%.....90.7%.....92.0%.....60.10.....81.....11942
6/19/2015.....262.....20.31.....97.0%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.36.....79.....12092
7/2/2015.....259.....20.07.....97.0%.....90.2%.....91.4%.....59.78.....81.....12599
8/13/2015.....256.....19.84.....97.0%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.15.....81.....13594
10/28/2015.....256.....19.84.....96.9%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.19.....71.....15213
11/24/2015.....257.....19.92.....96.9%.....89.5%.....90.4%.....59.29.....64.....16075
12/31/2015.....250.....19.38.....97.0%.....87.1%.....87.0%.....57.69.....64.....17000

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

No clue if yours or mine is "bad" but I've seen similar results as yours. Very disappointing.

It's been around the same low from 12/8 and hasn't gotten any worse. It will go up slightly (up to 270 GIDs / 20.9 kWh) when I drive a lot but with my average driving I've been around 260 GIDs and 20 kWh.

 

[NasGoreList]

interesting, can you plot that chart over time instead of mileage?

 

[Valdemar]

OP and LMD, how long between the manufacturing and the in-service dates?

 

[NasGoreList]

I believe mfg date was 4/2015 and I bought it 1/2016 so 8 months

 

[Valdemar]

I believe mfg date was 4/2015 and I bought it 1/2016 so 8 months

If the car sat fully charged all this time on a lot this kind of capacity loss is not entirely surprising. Now that you started driving it battery stats started to update, so it just took a month for the BMS to learn the true state of the battery. Likely reported degradation will slow down from this point on.

 

[arnis]

It is normal for 2014-2015 Leaf to get down to 21kWh pretty fast. They start at 22kWh when new.
It's normal for any Lithium battery. They lose first few percents really fast.
But getting down to 20kWh is suspicious.
Have a longer drive (go below very low warning) and observe cell voltages on the move.

My Leaf also went crazy after not being ever charged to 100% and not discharged low for a long
time. BMS lost track I suppose. All fine after few extreme trips :lol:

 

[Stanton]

Riddle me this: how can you guys with new Leafs start off at 63 AHrs while my old Leaf (with a new battery pack) started off at 66 AHrs? The 2015 Leaf should be the same or higher, right?

 

[dhanson865]

Riddle me this: how can you guys with new Leafs start off at 63 AHrs while my old Leaf (with a new battery pack) started off at 66 AHrs? The 2015 Leaf should be the same or higher, right?

Sat around on a dealer lot or on a ship during hot months? Maybe they left the factory at 66 AHrs but by date of delivery they had degraded.

 

[arnis]

Riddle me this: how can you guys with new Leafs start off at 63 AHrs while my old Leaf (with a new battery pack) started off at 66 AHrs? The 2015 Leaf should be the same or higher, right?

Theory is that making other specifications better you lose capacity per volume (or weight).
So if volume is constant making chemistry more heat resistant or age resistant or lower internal resistance
or whatever else and no other advancements in technology capacity will go down.

Check out different chemistries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion

 

[tkdbrusco]

Those drops are pretty significant for such a short period of time. I'd say that you're hard pressed to get a real reading right now because it sat for so long and because you're dealing with cooler winter temps as well in VA. In my experience with my 2015 (25K miles now) I've seen fluctuations between the seasons but it always picks up during the warmer months, so I'd wait and see what happens come April or May or just QC it a few times and see if the numbers come up. I think the BMS is learning a bit as well. The 2015 batteries have been all over the map and some of their behavior just doesn't make sense compared to prior cars. In my analysis of the pack and my readings, there seems to be a greater hidden capacity that is both eaten away at and shifted around based on the seasons. With the mileage I have on my car, the lowest reading I've seen (this past Dec was 266 Gids). Right now its around 273, but SOH is at 88% and AHR about 58. I'm very curious to see what happens with my car this summer and whether it tracks back up to 280 or so.

I really don't think the 2015 batteries are much better. I think they added a .75kwh buffer and eat at it and move it around to buffer degradation but other than that, same ol.

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

interesting, can you plot that chart over time instead of mileage?

Here are more updated charts by time and mileage. I did an experiment to see if stats would improve if I cycled the battery more (driving 40-50+ miles per day). It worked, but I couldn't keep up driving for no reason.

# Chart color coding... Dark green is when I started and ended the driving experiment, red is when I tried to use the heater instead of driving as much and then white is back to normal.

OP and LMD, how long between the manufacturing and the in-service dates?

Mine was MFG'd in Jan '15 and I got it May 1st '15. It may have sat for a couple months (cool temps though) but my top stats were as high as they can get (292 GIDs, 22.6 kWh).

Riddle me this: how can you guys with new Leafs start off at 63 AHrs while my old Leaf (with a new battery pack) started off at 66 AHrs? The 2015 Leaf should be the same or higher, right?

I have no clue and sure wish I had 66 AHr. I never saw higher than 63 AHr but I did have 292 GIDs and 22.6 kWh.

 

[EVforRobert]

My car sat for five days at 30% SOC, I charged to 80% at 240V and my Leaf Spy stats are in my signature.
Pretty bad.

 

[NavyCuda]

I really enjoy these threads. I'm too cheap to pay for anything to look at my battery health in depth but my 2015 gets fully charged twice a day. L2 at work, L1 at home. Sits fully charged over the weekend and if used is plugged in right away, short distance or otherwise. I live in a rural area so the car must be as close to ready to go as possible in case of an emergency. Eventually I will put L2 in at home.

 

[NasGoreList]

Those drops are pretty significant for such a short period of time. I'd say that you're hard pressed to get a real reading right now because it sat for so long and because you're dealing with cooler winter temps as well in VA. In my experience with my 2015 (25K miles now) I've seen fluctuations between the seasons but it always picks up during the warmer months, so I'd wait and see what happens come April or May or just QC it a few times and see if the numbers come up. I think the BMS is learning a bit as well. The 2015 batteries have been all over the map and some of their behavior just doesn't make sense compared to prior cars. In my analysis of the pack and my readings, there seems to be a greater hidden capacity that is both eaten away at and shifted around based on the seasons. With the mileage I have on my car, the lowest reading I've seen (this past Dec was 266 Gids). Right now its around 273, but SOH is at 88% and AHR about 58. I'm very curious to see what happens with my car this summer and whether it tracks back up to 280 or so.

I really don't think the 2015 batteries are much better. I think they added a .75kwh buffer and eat at it and move it around to buffer degradation but other than that, same ol.

what worries me is that my 2015 leaf battery after 1000 miles has same parameter levels as my 2014 leaf battery after 17000 miles. something is not right....

Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
2/19/2016.....268.....20.77.....97.21.....86.14.....87.08.....57.07.....54.6.....975
2/24/2016.....266.....20.61.....97.10.....85.58.....86.32.....56.70.....58.2.....1011 - measured this morning
vs
12/31/2015.....250.....19.38.....97.0%.....87.1%.....87.0%.....57.69.....64.....17000

 

[Stanton]

Riddle me this: how can you guys with new Leafs start off at 63 AHrs while my old Leaf (with a new battery pack) started off at 66 AHrs? The 2015 Leaf should be the same or higher, right?

I have no clue and sure wish I had 66 AHr. I never saw higher than 63 AHr but I did have 292 GIDs and 22.6 kWh.

And I never saw more than 281 GIDs with my 66 AHr...but that's consistent with what a "new" 2011 used to shoe. There's obviously some hidden capacity in these new packs at the top (or somewhere).

 

[tkdbrusco]

I eluded to this hidden capacity on another thread, but in my analysis of my car with Leaf spy, its almost as if they move this capacity around. I noticed recently in a cold weather drive that 10% remaining on the dash corresponded to 18% within the app, but on a warmer day, 10% remaining on the dash corresponded to 14% remaining in the App. It was almost t like they shifted to capacity to the bottom for some reason? Which could partially explain why during the winter our max Gids drop and during the summer they increase. I'm not sure what the engineering reason would be for this though.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

This is second Leaf I own so I am not newbie. my 2014 S got totaled in Jan so I bought new 2015 S. After first charge at home everything looked normal for brand new 2015 with 291 GIDs , 63.35 Ahrs and 22.55 kWh capacity, however every subsequent check revealed quick deterioration across the measured battery parameters.

Do I have bad battery in this leaf?

I lost 6Ahr and 2kWh with just 1000 miles on the odometer?


Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/11/2016.....291.....22.55.....96.94.....95.61.....97.53.....63.35.....62.6.....30
1/16/2016.....277.....21.47.....97.22.....89.11.....90.95.....59.04.....60.....145
1/30/2016.....273.....21.16.....96.94.....87.96.....89.59.....58.28.....52.3.....451
2/19/2016.....268.....20.77.....97.21.....86.14.....87.08.....57.07.....54.6.....975


here are the same stats for my 2014 leaf which I put 17000 miles on

Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/9/2015.....260.....20.15.....96.0%.....92.0%.....93.0%.....60.72.....51.....7500
2/7/2015.....265.....20.54.....96.8%.....92.4%.....94.4%.....61.24.....50.....8200
3/5/2015.....268.....20.77.....97.0%.....93.3%.....95.3%.....61.80.....54.....8948
4/4/2015.....259.....20.07.....96.9%.....90.1%.....91.2%.....59.70.....68.....9948
5/3/2015.....261.....20.23.....96.9%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.34.....69.....10850
6/13/2015.....260.....20.15.....97.0%.....90.7%.....92.0%.....60.10.....81.....11942
6/19/2015.....262.....20.31.....97.0%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.36.....79.....12092
7/2/2015.....259.....20.07.....97.0%.....90.2%.....91.4%.....59.78.....81.....12599
8/13/2015.....256.....19.84.....97.0%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.15.....81.....13594
10/28/2015.....256.....19.84.....96.9%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.19.....71.....15213
11/24/2015.....257.....19.92.....96.9%.....89.5%.....90.4%.....59.29.....64.....16075
12/31/2015.....250.....19.38.....97.0%.....87.1%.....87.0%.....57.69.....64.....17000

alarming? no, not really. instead of posting these numbers, how about driving and charging habits?

FYI; since I am over 33,000 miles, I have some degradation so its always a question as to how far my numbers will rebound and how valid those numbers are but my numbers have ranged in Hx from 91.90-102.15 and ahr has ran from 59.63 to 65.40 so I should be in the shits especially since the 59.63 ahr reading happened on May 26, 2015 over 11,000 miles ago.

so I am at what?? 20% loss now especially since its been over 11,000 miles and 9 months since that super low reading...

well, in my case? no... but its your car we are worried about, right?

so in your case?? uhh... no. come back to this thread in a few months with your numbers.

 

[NasGoreList]

This is second Leaf I own so I am not newbie. my 2014 S got totaled in Jan so I bought new 2015 S. After first charge at home everything looked normal for brand new 2015 with 291 GIDs , 63.35 Ahrs and 22.55 kWh capacity, however every subsequent check revealed quick deterioration across the measured battery parameters.

Do I have bad battery in this leaf?

I lost 6Ahr and 2kWh with just 1000 miles on the odometer?


Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/11/2016.....291.....22.55.....96.94.....95.61.....97.53.....63.35.....62.6.....30
1/16/2016.....277.....21.47.....97.22.....89.11.....90.95.....59.04.....60.....145
1/30/2016.....273.....21.16.....96.94.....87.96.....89.59.....58.28.....52.3.....451
2/19/2016.....268.....20.77.....97.21.....86.14.....87.08.....57.07.....54.6.....975


here are the same stats for my 2014 leaf which I put 17000 miles on

Date...GIDs...kWh...SOC %...SOH - Capacity %...HX...Ahr...Avg. Temp....Mileage
1/9/2015.....260.....20.15.....96.0%.....92.0%.....93.0%.....60.72.....51.....7500
2/7/2015.....265.....20.54.....96.8%.....92.4%.....94.4%.....61.24.....50.....8200
3/5/2015.....268.....20.77.....97.0%.....93.3%.....95.3%.....61.80.....54.....8948
4/4/2015.....259.....20.07.....96.9%.....90.1%.....91.2%.....59.70.....68.....9948
5/3/2015.....261.....20.23.....96.9%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.34.....69.....10850
6/13/2015.....260.....20.15.....97.0%.....90.7%.....92.0%.....60.10.....81.....11942
6/19/2015.....262.....20.31.....97.0%.....91.1%.....92.5%.....60.36.....79.....12092
7/2/2015.....259.....20.07.....97.0%.....90.2%.....91.4%.....59.78.....81.....12599
8/13/2015.....256.....19.84.....97.0%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.15.....81.....13594
10/28/2015.....256.....19.84.....96.9%.....89.3%.....90.2%.....59.19.....71.....15213
11/24/2015.....257.....19.92.....96.9%.....89.5%.....90.4%.....59.29.....64.....16075
12/31/2015.....250.....19.38.....97.0%.....87.1%.....87.0%.....57.69.....64.....17000

alarming? no, not really. instead of posting these numbers, how about driving and charging habits?

FYI; since I am over 33,000 miles, I have some degradation so its always a question as to how far my numbers will rebound and how valid those numbers are but my numbers have ranged in Hx from 91.90-102.15 and ahr has ran from 59.63 to 65.40 so I should be in the shits especially since the 59.63 ahr reading happened on May 26, 2015 over 11,000 miles ago.

so I am at what?? 20% loss now especially since its been over 11,000 miles and 9 months since that super low reading...

well, in my case? no... but its your car we are worried about, right?

so in your case?? uhh... no. come back to this thread in a few months with your numbers.

So my new car's battery deteriorated more in 1000 miles than yours did in 22,000 or my old car's did in 17, 000 (with same driving habits) and you consider that normal?

car is garaged and charged (from 20-30%) just like the old one every other day to 100% via L2 charger at home

 

[NavyCuda]

Went for my battery checkup yesterday. Nissan gave me 5 stars for all three criteria. Must be doing something right.

24,600km