Phoenix Range Test Sept 15, 2012 planning!

[ElectricVehicle]

Hope you got good use of the modularevpower J1772 to NEMA 14-50 Adapter and the two NEMA 14-50 to L6-20 adapters I sent down via surfingslovak for use by trained personnel to charge two LEAFs from one charging. A privilege to help with this even though I couldn't attend in person. Waiting anxiously to hear the results. Ultimately, I think LEAF owners just want to drive and enjoy their LEAFs, so getting some facts from real world range tests will help get on to the solution - whether that involves having the battery capacity bars regularly re-calibrated or doing battery work. The car needs to meet the needs of its owner and provide reliable information via it's instruments to the driver, no excuses. Wherever the issue is, I anxiously await the test results. I haven't lost a capacity bar at 8,000 miles, but my sympathies and hope for a solution goes to those that have. And those that have lost capacity bars maybe the pioneers that get to the bottom of the issue so it's fixed before it affects others, or if not, we learn some techniques to lessen it and get a realistic idea of what to expect.

Thanks to everyone participating in this test!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Hope you made it hope safely Tony.

Yep, thanks.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Hope you got good use of the modularevpower J1772 to NEMA 14-50 Adapter and the two NEMA 14-50 to L6-20 adapters I sent down via surfingslovak for use by trained personnel to charge two LEAFs from one charging. A privilege to help with this even though I couldn't attend in person. Waiting anxiously to hear the results.

Thank you for your support! I had my splitter setup, also. So, we could run four cars on two 32 amp chargers. Thank you to GaryG and Boomer23 for the six Gidmeters. We actually had all twelve cars with Gidmeters, and that's thanks to the grass roots support for folks like you all.

 

[Boomer23]

Hope you got good use of the modularevpower J1772 to NEMA 14-50 Adapter and the two NEMA 14-50 to L6-20 adapters I sent down via surfingslovak for use by trained personnel to charge two LEAFs from one charging. A privilege to help with this even though I couldn't attend in person. Waiting anxiously to hear the results.

Thank you for your support! I had my splitter setup, also. So, we could run four cars on two 32 amp chargers. Thank you to GaryG and Boomer23 for the six Gidmeters. We actually had all twelve cars with Gidmeters, and that's thanks to the grass roots support for folks like you all.

Glad to help, Tony, but Gary deserves 99% of the credit.

 

[walterbays]

Tow dolly damage to cars...

There's something else to worry about. I thought the 'only' problem with pushing the range was the inconvenience of being towed. But if the Leaf is delicate and/or difficult to tow, or if only specially trained tow drivers can do it properly, that makes going to turtle a lot worse. If only we had some sort of large scale controlled range test so we'd have better information than just the car's gauges! Oh wait...

Thanks to everyone who participated, and especially to Tony who traveled to Phoenix. I agree that defraying some of his gas money is a good idea. I mean, what a shame it is for someone like Tony to have to be spending any money on gas! It's easily done for those of us in San Diego: just pass a hat at a Leaf club meeting. For others Paypal sounds pretty good.

 

[Herm]

IIRC the Leaf is restricted to a flat bed tow, or perhaps I'm thinking of the Volt?..

Congratulations everyone!

 

[RegGuheert]

Thanks to TonyWilliams and the rest of the crew for letting me join the test at the last minute. Good thing my range has been limited so much that I had to stop by PADT last night for a charge before I went to dinner!! If there is anything else I can do to help out just let me know. Check out my website at http://wiltingleaf.com to learn more about my experience with my Nissan Leaf. Hope you made it hope safely Tony.

Welcome to the forum, Randy! I'm sorry about your loss of three bars so far, but I'm glad to hear that you linked up with the "Range Test Rangers" yesterday!

I see you have added yourself to the Wiki. I also added you under the one- and two-bar loss areas since we are trying to keep totals for each. If you know the mileage at the loss of your first bar, please update that.

For everyone else: Randy has posted a photograph from the event in his latest blog post: Help We're Wilting!!!

 

[ht2]

Why there is a delay?
I understand it will take few days to analyze it but I'd like to see the raw test data as soon as possible.

 

[azdre]

Why there is a delay?
I understand it will take few days to analyze it but I'd like to see the raw test data as soon as possible.

Tony traveled 700+ miles at 55 mph, was up for 2 days with no sleep, has hundreds of data points to collect/translate from 25 pieces of hand-written paper and get into a meaningful format. Please chill!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Why there is a delay?
I understand it will take few days to analyze it but I'd like to see the raw test data as soon as possible.

LOL!! are you serious?? he just spent a good 36 hours straight to get there, set it up, collect the data and then return home. he does not live in Phoenix and does not have a chauffeur

let him get some sleep! get reacquainted with family...ya know, that kind of stuff. plus, football is on today. will you be working during the game?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Why there is a delay?
I understand it will take few days to analyze it but I'd like to see the raw test data as soon as possible.

Data? What data?

:twisted:

 

[Cheezmo]

Why there is a delay?
I understand it will take few days to analyze it but I'd like to see the raw test data as soon as possible.

Please explain to Tony the urgency (as in what action you are planning to take to avert some life threatening situation before Monday or Tuesday based on the data) and I"m sure he'll get right on sending it to you.

Seriously?

 

[opossum]

A few of us talked at the event about collecting donations. Depending on how things go, it might not be just donations to reimburse Tony, but also to help people with the damage to the Leafs. It would suck if they had to hit up their insurance policies to fix damage, when they were already contributing so much to the cause by volunteering their cars and time to support the testing. Note that in some cases, people allowed relative strangers to drive their cars, also. There was talk that Scott and Tony purchased insurance with the tow dollies. We will hope that they're able to get the cars repaired under those insurance policies. If not, I'd like to ensure that the owners of the damaged cars are also compensated in the event that they don't want to put claims on their insurance records. Tony, unfortunately, got the double whammy of travel/test expenses *and* car damage! But hey, that Suburban was pretty sweet to drive!

A special thanks also to Skywagon. He was one of the "sleepless 5" that stayed overnight to play Leaf valet on the chargers, prep the cars for testing, and then actually drive one of the Leafs in the test! If you don't remember, Skywagon lost a bar in his Leaf just north of 16,000 miles, then was able to trade it in for a decent amount before the Leaf bubble burst and the value of a Leaf dropped to about the cost of a pack of Bazooka bubble gum. So he doesn't even have a horse in the race any longer, yet volunteered at the last minute to give up a perfectly good Friday night and Saturday morning to help this gig go a little smoother.

It would be nice if it was toastier Saturday and we were able to charge the cars in enclosed garages overnight. Unfortunately, the ranges won't truly reflect just how awful most of these cars are in 90+ degree daytime commutes. I believe even Scott and Dawn's 4-bar loss car still managed 59 freeway miles! On the flip side, we did see some pretty awful GID levels for the relatively new cars that Tony and shrink brought out, so the data should still be fairly telling.

 

[opossum]

:idea: Test car owners... don't forget to pump your tire pressures back up for max range. We need every mile we can get! 44psi cold is good. Don't worry, even if 44psi results in uneven tread wear, our Phoenix cars won't live long enough to even wear through the tires. :lol:

 

[edatoakrun]

... Unfortunately, the ranges won't truly reflect just how awful most of these cars are in 90+ degree daytime commutes...

Any actual evidenced to support this assertion?

Actually, the ranges from this test would almost certainly have been longer if the LEAFS were both charged and driven in higher temperatures, unless The LEAF BMS is very significantly restricting charge level at the higher garage temperatures.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

:idea: Test car owners... don't forget to pump your tire pressures back up for max range. We need every mile we can get! 44psi cold is good. Don't worry, even if 44psi results in uneven tread wear, our Phoenix cars won't live long enough to even wear through the tires. :lol:

inflating to max tire pressure printed on the sidewall is recommended for BEST tire life and for even wear and for best control on uneven road surfaces.

for your safety and tire tread longevity, its 44. DO NOT use Nissan's recommended tire pressures!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Actually, the ranges from this test would almost certainly have been longer if the LEAFS were both charged and driven in higher temperatures, unless The LEAF BMS is very significantly restricting charge level at the higher garage temperatures.

All the more reason that we eliminated this variable from the test protocol. Here's the official U.S. government weather reports during the period of active vehicle testing from KPHX, from 3:10am (1010Z) until 9:20am (1920Z):

Date, Time (UTC), Barometric Pressure (mbar), Temperature (degrees F), Dewpoint (degrees F), Relative Humidity (%), Wind speed (mph), Wind direction (degrees)

2012-09-15, 09:51:00, 1018.29, 78.8, 46.4, 31, 6, 080
2012-09-15, 10:51:00, 1018.29, 78.8, 44.6, 29, 8, 070
2012-09-15, 11:51:00, 1018.29, 78.8, 44.6, 29, 12, 060
2012-09-15, 12:51:00, 1018.63, 78.8, 42.8, 27, 15, 070
2012-09-15, 13:51:00, 1018.96, 78.8, 44.6, 29, 12, 070
2012-09-15, 14:51:00, 1019.30, 80.6, 42.8, 26, 13, 080
2012-09-15, 15:51:00, 1019.98, 82.4, 42.8, 24, 10, 070
2012-09-15, 16:51:00, 1019.98, 84.2, 42.8, 23, 10, 050

Air Density Calculation
Elevation: 1135 feet - 346 meters
Air Temperature: 80F - 26.6C
Altimeter Setting: 30.09 inches Hg - 1018.5 hPa
Dew Point: 43F - 6C

Density Altitude: 2685feet - 819 meters
Absolute Pressure: 28.864 inches Hg - 977.46 hPa
Air Density: 0.0706 lb/ft3 - 1.132 kg/m3
Relative Density: 92.38%

 

[kolmstead]

Which car had highest GID count? Tony's, at 250?

 

[KtG]

:idea: Test car owners... don't forget to pump your tire pressures back up for max range. We need every mile we can get! 44psi cold is good. Don't worry, even if 44psi results in uneven tread wear, our Phoenix cars won't live long enough to even wear through the tires. :lol:

inflating to max tire pressure printed on the sidewall is recommended for BEST tire life and for even wear and for best control on uneven road surfaces.

for your safety and tire tread longevity, its 44. DO NOT use Nissan's recommended tire pressures!

Incorrect. The pressure stamped into tires is the maximum rated pressure, not normal operation pressure. it should only be used in rare instances, like towing or hauling when the normal operating pressure cant support the additional weight and the sidewall bulges. if you are running a stock tire, the body label is correct. You go outside that, you may need a change in pressures.

Improper inflation is the number one tire killer. Excessive over inflation wears out the center and reduces the contact patch. If you dont believe me, it is easy to verify. You need chalk dust and graph paper. Then you jack the car up, dust the tread, and let it down on the paper. lift car, remove paper and start counting squares covered by the foot print. Or, you can even trace the tire and get a decent idea.

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123430" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; a thread from another board dealing with corner weights on a race car. the principle is the same.

 

[edatoakrun]

Actually, the ranges from this test would almost certainly have been longer if the LEAFS were both charged and driven in higher temperatures, unless The LEAF BMS is very significantly restricting charge level at the higher garage temperatures.

All the more reason that we eliminated this variable from the test protocol. Here's the official U.S. government weather reports during the period of active vehicle testing from KPHX, from 3:10am (1010Z) until 9:20am (1920Z):

Date, Time (UTC), Barometric Pressure (mbar), Temperature (degrees F), Dewpoint (degrees F), Relative Humidity (%), Wind speed (mph), Wind direction (degrees)

2012-09-15, 09:51:00, 1018.29, 78.8, 46.4, 31, 6, 080
2012-09-15, 10:51:00, 1018.29, 78.8, 44.6, 29, 8, 070
2012-09-15, 11:51:00, 1018.29, 78.8, 44.6, 29, 12, 060
2012-09-15, 12:51:00, 1018.63, 78.8, 42.8, 27, 15, 070
2012-09-15, 13:51:00, 1018.96, 78.8, 44.6, 29, 12, 070
2012-09-15, 14:51:00, 1019.30, 80.6, 42.8, 26, 13, 080
2012-09-15, 15:51:00, 1019.98, 82.4, 42.8, 24, 10, 070
2012-09-15, 16:51:00, 1019.98, 84.2, 42.8, 23, 10, 050

But you did not, of course, eliminate the variable between test conditions and the claim of "awful" results at higher temperatures, which I was commenting on:

opossum wrote:

... Unfortunately, the ranges won't truly reflect just how awful most of these cars are in 90+ degree daytime commutes...

We all still agree that you would have seen longer ranges on this test from the same kWh charge at higher driving temperatures, right?