One more winter range post- 33*, 80% to 0 bars: 32.8 miles

[dgpcolorado]

0.244 kWh/mile = 4.0 miles/kWh

That's the best I can come up with.

I'd suggest that your 120v charging is slightly under 75%, and of course, battery temperature matters a bit.

What was the battery (approximate) temperature? Then, we can go backwards and guess what your battery capacity was, and how much benefit your elevation had on range.

The battery temp was at five bars when I plugged in after driving the 70 miles. It was at four bars when I finished charging before setting out (from a garage in the 40s). Do those temps significantly affect capacity?

How do I reset the miles/kWh meter for a specific trip? Does it clear automatically when resetting the trip meter?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i consistently got 75% charging efficiency and this was rarely charging to full. the range of numbers were less than 1½ % +/-. problem is that the charge rate will brady down as the pack nears full so if fully charging, the last hour or so? will charge at less than 12 amps

and yes temps affect capacity. i have an estimated 17½ Kw available with temps in upper 20's to low 30's.

my battery temp bar has been set at 4 for several weeks. now, it does not vary much. highest i saw it in Summer was 6. it spends most of its time at dead center

 

[TonyWilliams]

Do those temps significantly affect capacity?

Yes. My rule of thumb is 1% loss per 2F below 70F, therefore 46F would have a 12% loss in capacity, or about 18.5kWh of available energy at 4.0miles/kWh = 74 miles.

There's lots of room for error in our rough numbers, but if you had about 80 mile range, the difference is made up with my next rule of thumb; 1.5% increase in range per 1000feet/300meter density altitude increase above sea level. At 5000 feet elevation, standard temperature is 15C-(2*5)=5C, which is close to what you had, so let's use 5000 feet as the density altitude, times 1.5%, or about 7.5% increase in range, which is 5.5 miles over 74 mile calculated range with battery capacity, for a total of:

79.5 miles.

How do I reset the miles/kWh meter for a specific trip? Does it clear automatically when resetting the trip meter?

No, you have to hold the "dot" button in the upper right of the four button quadrant, left of the steering wheel. Just cycle through the dash mount displays with the upper left button that has a square, I think, and then hold the dot button. Should reset.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

can also reset for miles /kw on MFD.

select the Carwings thingy (looks like a mini power button) lower right corner of center display

then energy info
then energy economy

i reset this one daily. the other monthly.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Do those temps significantly affect capacity?

Yes. My rule of thumb is 1% loss per 2F below 70F, therefore 46F would have a 12% loss in capacity, or about 18.5kWh of available energy at 4.0miles/kWh = 74 miles.

There's lots of room for error in our rough numbers, but if you had about 80 mile range, the difference is made up with my next rule of thumb; 1.5% increase in range per 1000feet/300meter density altitude increase above sea level. At 5000 feet elevation, standard temperature is 15C-(2*5)=5C, which is close to what you had, so let's use 5000 feet as the density altitude, times 1.5%, or about 7.5% increase in range, which is 5.5 miles over 74 mile calculated range with battery capacity, for a total of:

79.5 miles.

The temp for the trip was mostly -1º to 0ºC, so a bit colder than 5ºC.

 

[dgpcolorado]

How do I reset the miles/kWh meter for a specific trip? Does it clear automatically when resetting the trip meter?

No, you have to hold the "dot" button in the upper right of the four button quadrant, left of the steering wheel. Just cycle through the dash mount displays with the upper left button that has a square, I think, and then hold the dot button. Should reset.

can also reset for miles /kw on MFD.

select the Carwings thingy (looks like a mini power button) lower right corner of center display

then energy info
then energy economy

i reset this one daily. the other monthly.

Thanks for the info.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The temp for the trip was mostly -1º to 0ºC, so a bit colder than 5ºC.

But.... that's ambient, and we're concerned with battery cell temperature. If you were charging at 5C, and driving around, working the battery in temps that dropped to 0C, I'll venture to say that your battery did not get much colder than 5C.

The mass of a 600 pound densely packed (and somewhat insulated on CWP cars) battery doesn't lend itself to quick temperature changes.

If you had started at -19C, and drove to a much warmer place, the reverse would be true... that big battery pack is not going to quickly warm up.

Unless you have access to the CAN bus data, the only tool we have for battery temperature is that crude gauge on your dash.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The battery temp was at five bars when I plugged in after driving the 70 miles. It was at four bars when I finished charging before setting out (from a garage in the 40s).

Just a follow on to the above, your battery didn't actually cool down, but instead heated up to above 10C/50F (with the 5th temperature gauge bar).

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070998_whats-the-range-of-a-2012-nissan-leaf-in-winter-we-find-out" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; did 81 miles w/a charge up to 98% w/them having the GOM change to ---, but not yet to turtle. Of particular note was them mentioning their UK Nissan dealer had a DC quick charger.

 

[dgpcolorado]

The temp for the trip was mostly -1º to 0ºC, so a bit colder than 5ºC.

But.... that's ambient, and we're concerned with battery cell temperature. If you were charging at 5C, and driving around, working the battery in temps that dropped to 0C, I'll venture to say that your battery did not get much colder than 5C...

...There's lots of room for error in our rough numbers, but if you had about 80 mile range, the difference is made up with my next rule of thumb; 1.5% increase in range per 1000feet/300meter density altitude increase above sea level. At 5000 feet elevation, standard temperature is 15C-(2*5)=5C, which is close to what you had, so let's use 5000 feet as the density altitude, times 1.5%, or about 7.5% increase in range, which is 5.5 miles over 74 mile calculated range with battery capacity, for a total of:

79.5 miles.

I was referring to the elevation temperature/adjustment not the battery pack temp.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The temp for the trip was mostly -1º to 0ºC, so a bit colder than 5ºC.

But.... that's ambient, and we're concerned with battery cell temperature. If you were charging at 5C, and driving around, working the battery in temps that dropped to 0C, I'll venture to say that your battery did not get much colder than 5C...

...There's lots of room for error in our rough numbers, but if you had about 80 mile range, the difference is made up with my next rule of thumb; 1.5% increase in range per 1000feet/300meter density altitude increase above sea level. At 5000 feet elevation, standard temperature is 15C-(2*5)=5C, which is close to what you had, so let's use 5000 feet as the density altitude, times 1.5%, or about 7.5% increase in range, which is 5.5 miles over 74 mile calculated range with battery capacity, for a total of:

79.5 miles.

I was referring to the elevation temperature/adjustment not the battery pack temp.

Ok, easy to adjust. 5000ft elevation only varies between 4600ft at 0C to 5200ft at 5C. Not much change. On a 35C day (if that's possible), you're up to 8500ft.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Still haven't had any cold weather here (unseasonably mild, bicycle weather) but I'll add another cool weather trip. This is the main grocery shopping trip I was hoping the LEAF could make in winter.

Trip: my home to Montrose, Colorado and return
Distance traveled: 62.5 miles
Elevation delta: about 2500 feet,
Altitude: Start 7670', high 8000', low 5750', mostly downhill outbound and uphill homebound
Temperature: 43º outbound, 25º-22º homebound (night)
Battery temp: four bars start to finish
Charge: 100%, with cabin preheating
Speed: mostly 30 to 60 outbound, mostly 40 to 50 homebound, except for the last ten miles at 25 to 35.
Road: ten miles of dirt outbound, all paved homebound (longer route), paved road was dry
Heat: steering wheel and seat heaters homebound plus brief defogging, otherwise off
Drive setting: Eco, some brief coasting on mild downhill stretches when terrain permitted
Trees: I made two trees on the homebound, uphill, portion of the trip
Miles/kWh meter: 7.1 at mile 26 outbound 4.3/4.4 overall.
Fun GoM observation: at mile 14 I was showing 135 miles on the useless GoM!
Range anxiety meter: Off, definitely off, after this experiment

Results: I made it to Montrose, a distance of about 26 miles by the shorter dirt road route, with ten bars. On the way home I lost the third bar 2.5 miles from the end and probably made up some of it with regen since it is mostly downhill from there. With about two full bars left, my total range was likely over 80 miles despite cool temperatures and considerable elevation change. I had to drive home slowly (40 - 50 in a 60 zone) because it was night and the danger from deer on the road is extreme*; I was using high beams a lot. I'd like to do the entire trip in daylight so I can see how it goes at 60, but it seems likely that I could make it easily.

Whether or not I could make this trip in winter was my biggest concern when buying the LEAF. I guess I needn't have worried. I was astounded to get to Montrose with ten bars on the fuel gauge.

*I lost my previous car to a collision with a deer; deer and elk are the most common cause of collisions here.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

hey DPG!! nice meter install! had to look at it twice. thought it was mine for a second as i did the bungee cord thing to. i now had an old wooden crate for my EVSE to rest on

 

[edatoakrun]

...Whether or not I could make this trip in winter was my biggest concern when buying the LEAF. I guess I needn't have worried. I was astounded to get to Montrose with ten bars...

You might want to try the same drive starting with less than 100% charge, to maximize brake regen. Maybe starting charging half an hour before you leave, to give yourself 11 bars, and 9(?) %.

Even with only 80% (10 bars) With more regen on the descent, you'd probably still have 9 bars when you get there, and 1 when you get home, as long as it's not much colder, and you watch your speed.

My most common drive is similar in length, speed, and initial descent, and I don't charge to 100%, for this trip. All 100% gets me, is lower m/kWh, and more wear on the disc brakes.

 

[dgpcolorado]

hey DPG!! nice meter install! had to look at it twice. thought it was mine for a second as i did the bungee cord thing to. i now had an old wooden crate for my EVSE to rest on

One reason I have the brick hanging upside down on the wall is that I have routed the cable along the ceiling of my garage, using bicycle hooks, so that it drops down to the front of the LEAF. Keeps the cable out of the way and off the floor, which gets very dirty in winter, given dirt roads, snow, and the coal fly-ash my county uses for traction on snow (makes for black puddles on the garage floor as the snow in the wheel wells melts).

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Whether or not I could make this trip in winter was my biggest concern when buying the LEAF. I guess I needn't have worried. I was astounded to get to Montrose with ten bars...

You might want to try the same drive starting with less than 100% charge, to maximize brake regen. Maybe starting charging half an hour before you leave, to give yourself 11 bars, and 9(?) %.

Even with only 80% (10 bars) With more regen on the descent, you'd probably still have 9 bars when you get there, and 1 when you get home, as long as it's not much colder, and you watch your speed.

My most common drive is similar in length, speed, and initial descent, and I don't charge to 100%, for this trip. All 100% gets me, is lower m/kWh, and more wear on the disc brakes.

I could try that but am concerned that if I drive 60 going back uphill I will be pushing the range in cold weather, hence the 100%.

It wasn't clear from my data above, but the descent via the shorter dirt road route is very gradual and needs almost no braking at all; it is mostly coasting or gentle power application. However, when I go the paved road route, down a cliff, the descent is very steep and doing it at 100% is a waste, for just the reasons you mention. I'm going to try to charge to 90% tomorrow morning for my commute using the cliff route (I have to go up 300 feet first, so that helps also). Most of the time I won't need more than 80% for that commute (38 miles round trip) but I want some extra charge tomorrow because I've been taking colleagues and friends for rides and test drives. (I gave five test drives to friends in my first 320 miles; nobody here has ever seen an EV before, of course.)