Oil Companies Preemtive Strike The EV

[TomT]

No, they shouldn't! Ethanol is a disaster on many economic and technical fronts! It is also almost solely a political scam! Anyone who runs more than E10 in a pre-2007 vehicle or E15 in a post 2007 vehicle, is asking for problems...This has all been discussed in great detail in other threads here so I will not pollute this thread with any further such discussion, but I could let such a comment stand uncontested... Feel free to post in one of the existing Ethanol threads if you wish to continue the discussion...

Everyone with an ICE should be using Ethanol!!!

 

[greengate]

I saw that add last night for the first time and the very first thought was very clever marketing. They are clearly trying to set the stage for comparative choices in fuels for going forward. This message could be drilled into people (no pun intended) over and over and once it sets in then marketing by fuel density will be yet another angle. In fact, the NG companies are doing the same type of ads. I would not be surprised if they successfully tested this and are now testing a broader champaign of distraction. This is smart, strategic, and targeted advertising!

Sounds like "The Axis of Evil," is here and not "over there."

PS: I'm reading everything into it.

 

[Graffi]

No, they shouldn't! Ethanol is a disaster on many economic and technical fronts! It is also almost solely a political scam! This has been discussed in great detail in other threads here so I will not pollute this thread with any further such discussion, but I could let such a comment stand uncontested... Feel free to post in one of the existing Ethanol threads if you wish to continue the discussion...

Everyone with an ICE should be using Ethanol!!!

So you seem to have bought into the Oil Companies misinformation and lies campain. I will look to the ethanol threads and read what is said there and continue any discussion on those threads. However I also could not let such a comment (that I completely disagree with) stand uncontested.

 

[tps]

So, when will I be seeing a "gas powered everything" ad for real? I'm guessing never. This ad is not about promoting a gas powered cellular phone.

My first thought, as a LEAF owner, when I saw this ad, it is definitely a strike against electric vehicles.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
It's a bit more involved than that. Flex-Fuel engines also have the internal parts coated with Nitride to guard against excessive wear from the formation of formic acid caused by the smallest of water content in the fuel. The fuel lines should be changed to stainless. Also alcohol is conductive (unlike gasoline) so an "in tank" fuel pump can cause arcing and explosion. Rubber exposed to E85 is also a problem.

Flex-Fuel is a bit more complicated than the comment below would suggest.

Everyone with an ICE should be using Ethanol!!!

The only difference between a Flex Fuel and Non-Flex Fuel is the computing capacity of the computer, would cost the auto maker an additional $50 or so.

 

[Nubo]

So, when will I be seeing a "gas powered everything" ad for real? I'm guessing never.

2010/2011, iirc.

 

[RegGuheert]

Did anybody else saw that commercial? What do you think, is it a preemptive strike against EV?

Yes, I saw the add also. I take it as a sign that the oil companies now realize that EVs will be eating their lunch in the future.

BTW, I seem to recall some talk a few years back about powering cell phones using butane-based fuel cells. But I don't see people sporting FCECPs these days.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Anyone find the spot on YouTube?

 

[kubel]

Here it is below:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRS1ScEKU2E[/youtube]

There are a couple others in the series, one talking about sources for US energy, one talking about light bulbs, and another talking about energy being all around us and oil benefiting medicine.

 

[joewaters]

I want the device they are using to convert that energy to power the phone for 3000 days without an interim storage medium (i.e. battery, capacitor). On second thought, I just want to see them prove the statement. Energy density has very little clout without a device capable of consuming it.

 

[tps]

I want the device they are using to convert that energy to power the phone for 3000 days without an interim storage medium (i.e. battery, capacitor). On second thought, I just want to see them prove the statement. Energy density has very little clout without a device capable of consuming it.

As I said, I don't think anyone believes this ad is about gasoline powered cellular phones. The cell phone is a thinly veiled metaphor for an electric car. I doubt that Exxon's got a research lab which is trying to perfect the gasoline powered cell phone, but maybe we should ask...

 

[joewaters]

I want the device they are using to convert that energy to power the phone for 3000 days without an interim storage medium (i.e. battery, capacitor). On second thought, I just want to see them prove the statement. Energy density has very little clout without a device capable of consuming it.

As I said, I don't think anyone believes this ad is about gasoline powered cellular phones. The cell phone is a thinly veiled metaphor for an electric car. I doubt that Exxon's got a research lab which is trying to perfect the gasoline powered cell phone, but maybe we should ask...

I agree about that, but again stress the question of extracting the full potential energy from gasoline to use for ANY purpose where timed consumption is involved. The only way I know to extract 100% of the energy of gasoline is simple rapid oxidation release. And that only serves to create light, pressure, and heat. From there inefficiency takes over.

 

[smkettner]

The energy density is only created because the 6 pounds of gasoline combine with maybe 20 pounds of oxygen picked up along the way.
If the car required on board oxygen to burn, the gasoline the density advantage goes away, cost would go way up.

Imagine capturing CO2 from the atmosphere and converting it back to gasoline & O2 to put both fuels in the car.

 

[TomT]

But it doesn't so it is an irrelevant argument, unless you are planning to run a gasoline engine in space...

If the car required on board oxygen to burn, the gasoline the density advantage goes away, cost would go way up.

 

[TRONZ]

The primary issue to most people on the street is THEIR money. Oil knows its very expensive and that people hate them for it. So they try and spin their problem into the idea that you pay more BUT get more. This, of course, is total BS when you compare the dollar per mile cost of EV's to anything else. But half truths are very popular with half brains so this kind of bumper sticker thinking is all they are really after. It could backfire though and get people paying more attention to how little a dollar of gas gets you down the road. But marketing is a game of perceptions and sometimes strange attempts at re-framing the issues. Some car companies have even used the word "range" to describe how far they can go on a tank of gas. Fakery at its best!

 

[smkettner]

I think the spot raises awareness that there are other options....

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Looks like their ad campaign is working...

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/22/us-predicts-gas-still-dominant-in-2040/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[WetEV]

Looks like their ad campaign is working...

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/22/us-predicts-gas-still-dominant-in-2040/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Micro hybrids" save the most gasoline for the least added cost. There is no good reason that I know of why they shouldn't be on most gasoline powered cars a long time before 2040.

As gasoline cars get more fuel efficient, the driving smoothness of electrics is going to start to be a larger selling point.

 

[GerryAZ]

There is also a print version of the advertisement in the USA Today this weekend (full-page ad on page 5A of the news section December 27-29, 2013).

Gerry

 

[TLeaf]

Perhaps this only shows how "green" minded I am, but this commercial made me realize (again) how incredibly inefficient an ICE is. After all, if that one gallon of gasoline can power a cellphone for 3,000 days, then why is it that a typical truck can burn through that amount in 15 minutes of freeway driving?? That would be the ad that Nissan should come out with, but won't because it would affect their own ICE vehicle sales. Perhaps Tesla??