Official Tesla Model S thread

[waidy]

The Model S tries to keep its pack at 20F or above, it's been that or below in Boston (where I live) many times since I've picked up my Model S on 1/17/2013. The Model S has limited regen in colder weather, but it quickly goes away during the first several miles of driving, and that's just how it works. It also uses its electric pack heater to condition the battery before charging will start, using AC power, it also runs the pack heater to keep the batteries in operating range even if not connected to AC power. There is no ICE in a Model S to warm up the pack under any circumstances, they limit regen to protect the battery pack from damage. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The Model X is based on the same skateboard/chassis as the Model S, and will be exactly the same.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I never understand why "regen" would damage the battery pack in cold condition. Would you elaborate a little or give me some pointers to read about it? Many thanks.

 

[Zythryn]

... I never understand why "regen" would damage the battery pack in cold condition. Would you elaborate a little or give me some pointers to read about it? Many thanks.

My understanding is that when the batteries are cold, high rate of transfer of power into or out of the battery is stressful to the battery pack.
S with the Tesla, the battery management system limits the amount of power based on temperature.
In addition, if the car is already fully charged, it will limit the regen so as to not overload the battery pack.

The Volt's regen is not affected as GM keeps such a large percentage of the battery unaccesible. You gain the benefit of constant regen behavior at the loss of range.

 

[Zythryn]

... How do you Model S owners deal with the full range of light to heavy braking safely ?

Same way I have always dealt with that in any car I have owned.
If I want to slow down a little, I let up on the accelerator. If I need to slow down more quickly, I take my foot completely off the accelerator. If I need to slow even faster, I step on the brake. If I need an emergency stop, I slam on the brake.

Every car behaves a little differently. The Volt in L and the Tesla more so than most. Differing road conditions also can change that behavior.
Different cars and different road conditions each take some time to get used to.

The only difference with regen is that you get more stopping power from simply letting up on the accelerator.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Just go to 27 minutes 40 seconds to see how a Tesla should be disassembled:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntK3rvVl2Qw[/youtube]

 

[scottf200]

... I never understand why "regen" would damage the battery pack in cold condition. Would you elaborate a little or give me some pointers to read about it? Many thanks.

My understanding is that when the batteries are cold, high rate of transfer of power into or out of the battery is stressful to the battery pack. S with the Tesla, the battery management system limits the amount of power based on temperature. In addition, if the car is already fully charged, it will limit the regen so as to not overload the battery pack.

Interesting. It appears the Tesla range mode is limited to 95% max SOC and to 3% minimum SOC while standard Mode is 90% max SOC. Volt is from ~22-87%.

The Volt's regen is not affected as GM keeps such a large percentage of the battery unaccesible. You gain the benefit of constant regen behavior at the loss of range.

When the Volt maxes out it does the following lesser known functionality per Trevor the Volt advisors past comments:

...feature of the vehicle which protects the battery from overcharging. Under certain circumstances, the electric motors will resist one another to provide braking in addition to the friction brakes on the vehicle. In order to meet emission requirements, the Volt does not spin the engine, but uses clutch 2 in the drive unit to link both motors. When the vehicle is at low speeds, clutch 2 requires that the resultant planetary gearset speeds increase to compensate. You will hear the electric motors at higher speeds, which is certainly a change from their normally silent operation.

The Volt was validated using the steepest, longest descent in the nation, Pike's Peak. With a full battery, the volt can descend Pike's Peak without issue with a combination of friction brakes and the electric motors. This is part of the Voltec propulsion system which has many more delighting features waiting for you to discover.

 

[dgpcolorado]

... How do you Model S owners deal with the full range of light to heavy braking safely ?

Same way I have always dealt with that in any car I have owned.
If I want to slow down a little, I let up on the accelerator. If I need to slow down more quickly, I take my foot completely off the accelerator. If I need to slow even faster, I step on the brake. If I need an emergency stop, I slam on the brake.

Every car behaves a little differently. The Volt in L and the Tesla more so than most. Differing road conditions also can change that behavior.
Different cars and different road conditions each take some time to get used to.

The only difference with regen is that you get more stopping power from simply letting up on the accelerator.

Does the Model S use any brake lights with regen on the A pedal? Some here at MNL have expressed concern that strong regen braking without brake lights could be a problem for following drivers (especially the ones following too closely, but that's another issue).

 

[GeekEV]

Just go to 27 minutes 40 seconds to see how a Tesla should be disassembled

Oh, ooh, oooooh! Cringe. Oh the humanity! That was painful to watch. :shock:

 

[GeekEV]

Does the Model S use any brake lights with regen on the A pedal? Some here at MNL have expressed concern that strong regen braking without brake lights could be a problem for following drivers (especially the ones following too closely, but that's another issue).

Everything I've read says yes, it does. Don't have my car yet though...

 

[scottf200]

Does the Model S use any brake lights with regen on the A pedal? Some here at MNL have expressed concern that strong regen braking without brake lights could be a problem for following drivers (especially the ones following too closely, but that's another issue).

Here is the coolest post via Joule Thief (gm-volt) I've seen on the general topic and offical UNECE specification regulations with a guy doing empirical testing on a Mustang downshifting as well.
Brake-Light-Actuation: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?25953-Brake-Light-Actuation&p=332929#post332929" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Tesla Model S brake lights and regen
From Doug_G http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...to-other-cars)?p=185314&viewfull=1#post185314

They turn on when you reach a certain deceleration level (roughly half), and they also turn on immediately if you lift off the pedal quickly.
If you just lift a little they do not turn on.

The UNECE specification which states (Slapshot28 gm-volt):

5.2.22. Generation of a braking signal to illuminate stop lamps
5.2.22.4. Electric regenerative braking systems as defined in paragraph 2.17., which produce a retarding force upon release of the accelerator control, shall generate the signal mentioned above according to the following provisions:
Vehicle decelerations Signal generation
<= 0.7 m/s^2 The signal shall not be generated
> 0.7 m/s^2 and <= 1.3 m/s^2 The signal may be generated [Volt max regen is right in the middle of this at ~1 - per Joule Thief]
> 1.3 m/s^2 The signal shall be generated
In all cases the signal shall be de-activated at the latest when the deceleration has fallen below 0.7 m/s^2.

Link: http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R13hr2e.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mitch672]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I never understand why "regen" would damage the battery pack in cold condition. Would you elaborate a little or give me some pointers to read about it? Many thanks.

Well, it's mostly due to the fact that batteries are "electro chemical" storage devices, their is a chemical reaction that's how batteries store/release their energy. They do this less efficiently when they are below or above their designed operating temperatures... That's the simplest, basic explanation. You can google "lithium ion" batteries, if you want to know a lot more of the technical reasons (but it boils down to slower chemical reactions, and some damage to the batteries components (anode/cathode) that will shorten their life. I don't think it's worth getting into a heavy technical discussion, suffice it to say that we are bound by the limits of physics & chemistry.

 

[tbleakne]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I never understand why "regen" would damage the battery pack in cold condition. Would you elaborate a little or give me some pointers to read about it? Many thanks.

Well, it's mostly due to the fact that batteries are "electro chemical" storage devices >>>

The charging impedance rises at both low temperatures and high SOC, so that a given level of regeneration power causes more internal heating in the battery cells. In the case of low temperatures, this is self-correcting as the battery warms up, but at high SOC charging at high power must be limited if it is prolonged. The rate of Quick Charging in the LEAF and Super Charging in the Model S tapers down as the battery fills for the same reason. Abasile, who lives at the top of a mountain range, has documented how he must leave 25-30% SOC room at the top of his LEAF battery to avoid having his regen decline as he descends the mountain. I have experienced this myself on long descents in my LEAF, and it is a disconcerting feeling to no longer have the assistance of regeneration.

By definition a battery at full charge cannot absorb any more energy, and so regeneration at this point must go to zero.

 

[scottf200]

Video: Tesla Model S Will Play Any Song You Want [via internet] – Handsfree
http://insideevs.com/video-tesla-model-s-will-play-any-song-you-want-handsfree/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No iPod, iPhone needed, as all data is transmitted and received over something called the “Internet.” According to Musk, this is a featured Tesla needs to promote more, because “this is a feature you can’t do in any other car.”

 

[Zythryn]

Video: Tesla Model S Will Play Any Song You Want [via internet] – Handsfree
http://insideevs.com/video-tesla-model-s-will-play-any-song-you-want-handsfree/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No iPod, iPhone needed, as all data is transmitted and received over something called the “Internet.” According to Musk, this is a featured Tesla needs to promote more, because “this is a feature you can’t do in any other car.”

It is very cool and works very well, although not flawlessly.
It does require Slacker Internet radio, although I have heard that it works with the Tuner Internet service as well.
What I really enjoy is that it will, on the fly, create a unique playlist based on what you say. So you can tell it just to play a certain artist and you will get songs that way.

 

[GeekEV]

I picked up my car today. I got the 60kWh, gray exterior, gray napa leather, lacewood trim, premium sound and 21" chrome turbine wheels. It's so beautiful! Better than I imagined. I made the trip from Fremont to Roseville at freeway speeds between 65 - 70 with no problems. 145 miles total with 55 remaining when I got home. So awesome!

 

[MrIanB]

I picked up my car today. I got the 60kWh, gray exterior, gray napa leather, lacewood trim, premium sound and 21" chrome turbine wheels. It's so beautiful! Better than I imagined. I made the trip from Fremont to Roseville at freeway speeds between 65 - 70 with no problems. 145 miles total with 55 remaining when I got home. So awesome!

Congrats and would appreciate a pix of the baby.

Ian B

 

[ebill3]

I picked up my car today. I got the 60kWh, gray exterior, gray napa leather, lacewood trim, premium sound and 21" chrome turbine wheels. It's so beautiful! Better than I imagined. I made the trip from Fremont to Roseville at freeway speeds between 65 - 70 with no problems. 145 miles total with 55 remaining when I got home. So awesome!

Great, Geek. I'll be watching for your mods.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

congrats, great color combo! Sounds like the 60kW is quite capable!!

I picked up my car today. I got the 60kWh, gray exterior, gray napa leather, lacewood trim, premium sound and 21" chrome turbine wheels. It's so beautiful! Better than I imagined. I made the trip from Fremont to Roseville at freeway speeds between 65 - 70 with no problems. 145 miles total with 55 remaining when I got home. So awesome!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Video: Tesla Model S Will Play Any Song You Want [via internet] – Handsfree
http://insideevs.com/video-tesla-model-s-will-play-any-song-you-want-handsfree/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No iPod, iPhone needed, as all data is transmitted and received over something called the “Internet.” According to Musk, this is a featured Tesla needs to promote more, because “this is a feature you can’t do in any other car.”

It is very cool and works very well, although not flawlessly.
It does require Slacker Internet radio, although I have heard that it works with the Tuner Internet service as well.
What I really enjoy is that it will, on the fly, create a unique playlist based on what you say. So you can tell it just to play a certain artist and you will get songs that way.

Rav4 EV does Internet streaming audio also.

 

[GeekEV]

congrats, great color combo! Sounds like the 60kW is quite capable!!

Yeah, based on that drive I'd say the EPA estimated range is pretty accurate - if you don't drive like an idiot.

Great, Geek. I'll be watching for your mods.

I'm not sure what I'd do, other than maybe make the nosecone body color and replace the headlight bulbs. I didn't get the tech package, and the standard headlights are VERY yellow - ick. The LEAF has spoiled me. Since everything else is touchscreen driven and there's a distinct minimalist no-button motif I'd had to add any. And I sprung for the upgraded stereo, and it already has DRL, so... Shrug. Ideas?

Congrats and would appreciate a pix of the baby.

photo 1 by Geek EV, on Flickr

photo 2 by Geek EV, on Flickr

photo 3 by Geek EV, on Flickr

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

nice pics Geek! that's a sweet ride, though I'm biased, almost identical to ours :~). I highly recommend getting some rim gators for those wheels, they are very easy to rash. I installed these: http://www.infinityworldwide1.com/rimdefender.htm