Official Kia Soul EV thread
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nosuchthing
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It just might give Nissan run for its money. Same price, more miles...
I'm actually debating for the first time to look at it and if we like what we see, and the 93-mile range appears solid, chuck our 2011 Leaf and lease this thing until Model III comes out.
The above is also contingent upon the lease terms for 15,000 miles b/c 12,000 ain't gonna cut it for us.
I'm actually debating for the first time to look at it and if we like what we see, and the 93-mile range appears solid, chuck our 2011 Leaf and lease this thing until Model III comes out.
The above is also contingent upon the lease terms for 15,000 miles b/c 12,000 ain't gonna cut it for us.
Berlino
Well-known member
GRA said:
Agreed, these features definitely help in cold-weather.
Do you have any technical details on the Soul EV's battery heating system? I can only find superficial information.
It is strange that Kia is only offering the heat pump in the plus version in Canada, but in all versions in the USA. What's worse is that the mobile app apparently is not going to be supported in Canada according to this article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-the-electric-vehicle-market/article20803076/
tuanies
Active member
The battery packs are stacked with space in between for ventilation, there's a little vent under the seat that just takes air from the cabin to cool/warm the battery. Kia figured the cabin would always be at optimal comfort temp and simplifies things by taking advantage of that.
evnow
Well-known member
Usually that is just a few $ / month extra.ILETRIC said:
TomT
Well-known member
+1
ILETRIC said:
TomT
Well-known member
It's certainly not as elegant a solution as a full-blown TMS but it is far better than the Leaf's lack of any thermal control and has the advantage that there is likely less energy used than by a full-blown TMS and less vampire draw...
tuanies said:
Valdemar
Well-known member
I hope there is a filter as dust will be surely sucked in and deposited on the modules over time impacting heat exchange.
TomT
Well-known member
I'm sure that Kia took all this in to consideration in their design...
gsleaf
Well-known member
TomT said:
Tom, that would be my assumption as well. My only concern would be any sort of fire/smoke containment. I'm sure they thought of it, I would just want to hear how that would work before I leased/bought one.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
TomT said:
Nissan has claimed that the LEAF battery pack's conductive heat transfer provides passive thermal management, and of course you lose (almost) all conductivity once you provide airspace in the pack for air cooling.
Air is an excellent heat insulator, but lousy conductor of heat (which I have experienced myself recently, by driving an air-cooled ICEV, for the first time in ~25 years).
IMO, there is no question that the LEAF pack design is more elegant than any solution requiring complex liquid cooling, or even relatively simple (and likely far less effective) air cooling.
Since no BEV manufacturer is likely to ever fully disclose battery cost and heat related accelerated capacity degradation data, it's difficult to choose any solution as better today.
But I think that in some point in the near future, as battery prices decline, battery designs improve to further limit the heat generated by the charge/discharge cycle, and the batteries themselves are designed as to be less severely degraded by higher temperatures, All future BEVs will probably use passive (without pumps, fans, or compressors) pack cooling.
gsleaf
Well-known member
In case anyone is interested Nissan's e-NV200 has a different cooling system than the Leaf. I wonder if the Leaf will go this way in the future...
https://transportevolved.com/2014/06/12/nissan-e-nv200-show-change-policy-battery-heating-cooling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://transportevolved.com/2014/06/12/nissan-e-nv200-show-change-policy-battery-heating-cooling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GRA
Well-known member
If they're going to introduce a 150 mile LEAF that will be semi-practical for 'more than a single QC each way' road trips they're going to have to offer active cooling on it, barring a battery that really can take the heat. At least they finally realized that a taxi had to have battery cooling, although if they only use it when QC-ing as some reports have indicated, I expect there would be a lot of unhappy taxi drivers a year or two down the road as their shrinking battery capacity starts to limit their income and replacement costs loom.gsleaf said:
Of course, maybe there are people who are willing to take Nissan's word for it that the Lizard battery can handle New York summer heat just fine in taxi service, and constant HVAC usage with frequent opening of doors will still leave enough range year round for the vehicle to be commercially viable. Personally I'd want that guaranteed in writing, with strict mileage/years/degradation %, lest they find themselves repeating the experience the LEAF taxis had. Not that their failure wasn't predicted by anyone with a clue, but Nissan proceeded to put them out there anyway, just like they sold and leased them in Arizona and other hot areas.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
gsleaf said:
http://www.newsroom.nissan-europe.com/EU/en-gb/Media/Media.aspx?mediaid=120591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TomT
Well-known member
I think that claim has been pretty thoroughly debunked by now... It has roughly the same thermal management as a large rock or lump of metal...
edatoakrun said:
minispeed
Well-known member
Berlino said:
I wouldn't put too much faith in that article. Since they claim that it has 3 "charging portals" and that the 500L comes in electric. As far as I've heard, and I just checked the fiat website the electric is only the 2door 500e. They also say about the 2 models that "The big difference between the trims is a heat pump" and then say the base model has "climate-control system designed to minimize draw from the battery" which would logically be a heat pump.
I wouldn't be surprised if the statment about the app just means it's not released to canadian registered devices yet. I searched on play and couldn't find anything, searched on google and clicked on it and it said "this app isn't available in your country". Since the car isn't out here yet I wouldn't take that to mean that the app won't be supported when the car is out.
Berlino
Well-known member
tuanies said:
This is better than the LEAF, but not great in the Winter where I live if you park your car outside overnight.
Last Winter, the LEAF's battery temperature was typically in the teens in the morning. The cabin was even colder before pre-heating. Without having to pre-heat the entire car during the night, I was hoping there'd be a way to keep the battery's temp above freezing.
For the battery cooling while quick-charging, it would be nice for the Soul to have a custom car cover with vents in the appropriate places to allow air circulation while preventing the Sun from overheating the cabin air. That or blackout shades for all the windows. I may be overestimating the need for this. It's based on fear of heat (as a LEAF owner) and Supercharging in places like Barstow where the Tesla's cooling system often was going full-bore.
Berlino
Well-known member
minispeed said:
Good point that the mainstream media often mixes up EV specs. However, at least one Quebec dealer said the heat-pump wouldn't be offered in the base model some time ago. Oops, I just quoted an even less reliable source.
"Since no BEV manufacturer is likely to ever fully disclose battery cost and heat related accelerated capacity degradation data, it's difficult to choose any solution as better today."
Which basically applies to the so-called Kia TMS and its potential effect, as no data exit.
For some on this thread to consider the Kia as a possible better choice than the Leaf
is rather naive, given an unverified nine mile additional range (a joke) over the Leaf
and a Mickey Mouse TMS, also unverified as to its real effectiveness. Maybe too
much wishful thinking on the part of some!
Bottom line: All the unknowns about the Leaf are known now after 100K+ vehicles, which is not
the case for the Kia which has two marginal plus unproven knowns.
Which basically applies to the so-called Kia TMS and its potential effect, as no data exit.
For some on this thread to consider the Kia as a possible better choice than the Leaf
is rather naive, given an unverified nine mile additional range (a joke) over the Leaf
and a Mickey Mouse TMS, also unverified as to its real effectiveness. Maybe too
much wishful thinking on the part of some!
Bottom line: All the unknowns about the Leaf are known now after 100K+ vehicles, which is not
the case for the Kia which has two marginal plus unproven knowns.
