Official California PG&E Thread

[planet4ever]

First of all, they say that E9a meter doesn't rotate backwards and can't be used with solar. Which doesn't make sense, because the PG&E person I talked over the phone, didn't say that would be an issue for.

I agree; that doesn't make sense. Why would there be a special E9A meter? Any meter with TOU capability should work. My current GE kV2cs certainly goes backwards (though it doesn't actually "rotate" ). I can't imagine that the new "smart meters" PG&E is rolling out would be unable to count backwards.

 

[DeaneG]

The new smart meters can definitely count backwards, I've seen it in person. I have heard that PG&E's back-office software is not ready yet to make use of that ability, but it was in the queue for implementation.

 

[lemketron]

It seems unlikely that E1 would be better than E6 unless you have a very small solar array and high weekday afternoon usage.

You mean like those of us with young families, who sized our PV array to maximize ROI by getting us out of the higher tier rates without trying to completely zero out our usage (since on E1, baseline power is cheaper than the cost of generating it from PV)?

I installed a 2.1KW south-facing array five years ago, and it's (now) returning nearly 10% tax-free on my investment for avoided power cost for now. I analyzed my peak summer usage at the time and decided that since there was a chance I might not be able to generate enough to cover my consumption (let alone push anything back into the grid at those nice peak rates), that TOU didn't make sense. It might've saved me a few bucks a month, but not really enough to even pay back the cost of the TOU meter installation.

That said, I've been trying to figure out (though it's painfully difficult to do so) whether it be cost effective for me to add another 2.5KW of west-facing panels and then switch to TOU (presumably E6, or maybe E9a). But that really depends on how much I end up charging at home vs. at work.

(Is it that hard to run the electric dryer before 10 AM or after 9 PM on weekdays?)

With TOU, you don't want to ever be a "net-consumer" during summer peak or really even partial peak -- and those hours stink on E6. You want to be pushing lots of power into the grid during peak hours, so you can "buy it back" cheaper in the off-peak hours and in the winter. That's tough to do if you have a family at home during the summer, or use (even occasionally) air conditioning. We have a whole-house fan which we often use instead of A/C, but who wants to chase their wife around with a watch saying "Honey, I told you we can't use the clothes dryer until after 9pm!! Or the dishwasher!! And couldn't you bake those cupcakes for the kids after they're asleep?" :lol:

When it comes to E6 vs. E9 the choice is not so clear. E9 Peak times don't match PV output nearly as well as E6, but E9 Off peak rates are even lower than E6. You will need to do your own analysis to see which is better for you, assuming PG&E lets you have a choice.

Yes, that seems to be the tricky part. Martin's spreadsheet (link on page one of this thread) appears to be helpful in comparing different scenarios but some have said it may not be entirely accurate depending on your specific usage patterns and how "normalized" they are.

I wish they just would create a "hybrid" tariff based on blending the old E7 (net metering) with the new E9a (EV charging) tariff: "peak" rates during peak solar generating hours, and low EV charging rates after midnight.

The problem with E6 is that it's not as PV-friendly as E7, or as EV-friendly as E9. :-(
I think I'm going to stick with E1 until there is a clearly better choice, ideally a new tariff.
Just as I'm deferring my EVSE decision for now in hopes of better/cheaper options (e.g. Leviton 16a L2).

 

[leaf561]

who wants to chase their wife around with a watch saying "Honey, I told you we can't use the clothes dryer until after 9pm!! Or the dishwasher!!

There is where you come into picture I have E6, I end up doing the laundry and starting the dish washer after 9pm.

With E9a, the off peak is at midnight, which doesn't work for me However, the E9a partial peak rate is not that bad.

Anyway, there seems to be lot of confusion whether E9a will support solar.

 

[planet4ever]

who wants to chase their wife around with a watch saying "Honey, I told you we can't use the clothes dryer until after 9pm!! Or the dishwasher!!

There is where you come into picture I have E6, I end up doing the laundry and starting the dish washer after 9pm.

+1 My computer has been bugging me for the last hour and a half to go take care of the laundry. Now that I've finally finished catching up on this board, that's what I'm off to do.

 

[DeaneG]

...Anyway, there seems to be lot of confusion whether E9a will support solar.

I'll add to the confusion - a PG&E phone rep at their solar service line (877 743 4112) said this morning that the meter for E6 and E9a are the same, and that either rate schedule would generate a credit for midday solar production in excess of consumption. He also said that the Smartmeters cannot be used for this purpose "at this time".

I'll try emailing the same question to see if I get a different answer.

 

[EVDRIVER]

...Anyway, there seems to be lot of confusion whether E9a will support solar.

I'll add to the confusion - a PG&E phone rep at their solar service line (877 743 4112) said this morning that the meter for E6 and E9a are the same, and that either rate schedule would generate a credit for midday solar production in excess of consumption. He also said that the Smartmeters cannot be used for this purpose "at this time".

I'll try emailing the same question to see if I get a different answer.

Used for what purpose?, all it is is different billing rates on the tiers. PGE says they just change the billing to E9, if you are on E6 with solar and change to E9 it only requires a call to change the billing structure, that's it. I'm not sure why people are so confused about this and the meters.

 

[DeaneG]

PG&E has an apparently updated "FAQ" on EV charging I believe says that you can go with either E6 or E9 rates when you have both PV solar and an EV:

http://www.pge.com/myhome/environment/pge/cleanair/electricdrivevehicles/pevfaq/index.shtml

The FAQ also needs to include an introductory Q which outlines the E6, E9A, and E9B rates, what they are for, and when they are generally appropriate. It starts off with the E9B rate, which is probably a bad idea and generates worry. Maybe this is what the PG&E reps read before coming to the San Jose drive event.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Be careful, for non-solar people on E1 with moderate to high daily use you can be crushed by E9. PGE is now working on a comparison between E6 and E9 and other rates, soon or hopefully so. Also- E9 and E6 time schedules are very different, not just the rates, just a reminder

 

[EVDRIVER]

...Anyway, there seems to be lot of confusion whether E9a will support solar.

I'll add to the confusion - a PG&E phone rep at their solar service line (877 743 4112) said this morning that the meter for E6 and E9a are the same, and that either rate schedule would generate a credit for midday solar production in excess of consumption. He also said that the Smartmeters cannot be used for this purpose "at this time".

I'll try emailing the same question to see if I get a different answer.

The NEW as of Nov 1 phone number for PGE E9 rates is 877-743-7782, even if you have solar you need to call this number now as they are doing all E9 rate work.

 

[cinmar]

The new smart meters can definitely count backwards, I've seen it in person. I have heard that PG&E's back-office software is not ready yet to make use of that ability, but it was in the queue for implementation.

We just had our PV system installed last week, and our solar rep told us that PG&E will be out to swap our smart meter with one that can count backwards, so it seems they haven't got their software operational yet.

Also, I'm in the same situation as lemketron. We have a 9 month old. Although my husband and I work during the week, I have every other Friday off, and husband has Mondays off, in addition to running a pump for our large Koi pond 24/7. Even with our 4.9 kW system, and other energy updates, we still anticipate using a little bit more than we produce some months of the year, so we stuck with the E1 rate. I used the xls spreadsheet (linked elsewhere) to figure out which rate was best, and I thought it best not to be penalized rate-wise for our energy usage during weekday peak hours. Because we were regularly up into tier 4 & 5 during the summer pre-PV (due to our A/C, since summer temps in the Valley are up around 95-100 degrees), I think we'll really benefit from removal of the top tiers in E1 vs. switching to the TOU rates.

 

[trentr]

I called that new number from PGE and asked them if they can do a rate comparison between E1 and E9A with my usage and they said that they can't do any rate analysis at this time. I will probably just stick with E1 for now when I get the LEAF. The peak rates of E9 is expensive. Wish PGE have the same rates as the city of Santa Clara. So much simpler and cheaper:

http://www.siliconvalleypower.com/pdf/2010RatesD1_0110.pdf

 

[Rat]

I talked to the PG&E rep at the test drive tour today. I told her I had sent in the form requesting the switch to rate E9A about 10 days ago and hadn't heard anything yet about when the meter would be installed or the rate change would go into effect. She seemed surprised and said she would look at my account on Monday and call me. She also said that starting 11/1 (Monday) the EV program would be shifted from HQ to the local offices. I'm not sure if that one 800 number will continue to work or whether you get transferred, but I suspect there will be more inconsistencies and misinformation when it gets rolled out and you have dozens of different reps handling it. It will be new to them so there will be a learning curve.

She never called and did not give me her name or telephone or email so I could call her. So much for that promise. Has anyone in the Bay Area completed the switch to E9 after placing the Leaf order and if so, how long did it take for the metering and billing switch to happen?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I talked to the PG&E rep at the test drive tour today. I told her I had sent in the form requesting the switch to rate E9A about 10 days ago and hadn't heard anything yet about when the meter would be installed or the rate change would go into effect. She seemed surprised and said she would look at my account on Monday and call me. She also said that starting 11/1 (Monday) the EV program would be shifted from HQ to the local offices. I'm not sure if that one 800 number will continue to work or whether you get transferred, but I suspect there will be more inconsistencies and misinformation when it gets rolled out and you have dozens of different reps handling it. It will be new to them so there will be a learning curve.

She never called and did not give me her name or telephone or email so I could call her. So much for that promise. Has anyone in the Bay Area completed the switch to E9 after placing the Leaf order and if so, how long did it take for the metering and billing switch to happen?

To be clear, I have an E6 meter, to go to E9 takes a change at the office Not the meter. E9 comparisons are being worked on and are not ready yet, it's a new program.

 

[DeaneG]

I submitted E9A request documents to PG&E about 2.5 weeks ago, after completion of a PV solar installation. I called both the PV and the EV hotlines, and neither could even confirm which rate plan I had requested! My forms are now at the critical "black hole" stage within PG&E's machinery. They're due to exit within 2.5 more weeks, the reps both told me.

 

[greenleaf]

I called that new number from PGE and asked them if they can do a rate comparison between E1 and E9A with my usage and they said that they can't do any rate analysis at this time. I will probably just stick with E1 for now when I get the LEAF. The peak rates of E9 is expensive. Wish PGE have the same rates as the city of Santa Clara. So much simpler and cheaper:

http://www.siliconvalleypower.com/pdf/2010RatesD1_0110.pdf

Finally I decided to click on the link. I would love to get these rates instead of the crappy ones from PG&E!

I am putting up solar and just sat down to analyze my electricity usage. Looks like my earlier plan to go E6 is wrong. I should stick to E1.

My PV system is sized to eliminate the higher tiers (>1.3x baseline). With E1, for every kWh generated, I would already be effectively saving at the higher tier rates. With E1, I don't have to worry about my wife operating the oven or running the dryer or AC in the afternoon. I can charge the car whenever needed. I also would save on the additonal charge for E6 metering ($7.60 per month).

If PG&E wants me to switch to E6, they need to first simplify the E6 schedule.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I told PGE that I'm going to a dedicated meter by connecting my EVSE to the street lamp box in front of my house, it's 240 and it should solve all my metering issues. It's the SL-0 rate and it seems to be the best plan at the moment. The best part is it's a foot from my driveway so the cord can even go inside my garage if needed.

 

[Rat]

I talked to the PG&E rep at the test drive tour today. <snip>

To be clear, I have an E6 meter, to go to E9 takes a change at the office Not the meter. E9 comparisons are being worked on and are not ready yet, it's a new program.

I know another Leaf buyer who is already on E9 so it's ready for some. He sent in the 1-page pdf form (as I did) and nothing happened (like me) but when he didn't hear anything in a few days he called the 800 number and they sent out a guy within 2 or 3 days to install the new meter. He said that unfortunately the software for the smart meters doesn't work with the TOU feature so you are basically back to just the total for the month in each rate category. He said they pretty much ignore that sheet you send in. You have to nag to get the metering and rate changed. I'm not in any great rush. Maybe by the time the Leaf arrives they'll have the software upgraded so they can read the time of day with the smart meter and put that on the website. Of course, now that we're past Nov. 1, even the partial peak is cheaper than the standard E1 rate I have now. It would be nice to start saving money.

 

[Ready2plugin]

I just got off the phone with PG&E and he told me I should wait on getting my second meter installed. There "may be" a change in policy announced the first week of December that will qualify me for the 9b rate without the cost of adding a second meter or panel. Fingers crossed. I'm guessing they may have worked out the software issues on their smart meters to accommodate the EV. He did state that even if I don't require a second meter, if my car does come in during December I may have problems getting permits and rate changed in time.

 

[Randy3]

I called the PG&E folks yesterday and was told that I must change my rate to a 9a or 9b when the Leaf comes home.

My situation - currently on E1 NEMS with medical. I have a 2.7 kw solar system, my son has medical issues that means he is home pretty much 24/7 and we live in Fresno, where summer heat means heavy AC usage four months out of the year. I expect to drive the Leaf about 700 miles per month and don't really need a L2 charging dock at home.

With the current E1 NEMS rates, I estimate that if I don't change to a 9a or 9b rate, I'll be paying approx 12 cents per kwh with the Leaf. This sounds good to me, but PG&E won't let me keep my current rate.

I don't know if I trust the information that I received from them yesterday.