Official BMW i3 thread

[RegGuheert]

According to an interview with Andreas Feist, head of i3 vehicle development, and this test drive report, the US version will not allow the REx to engage before the SOC reaches 6.5%. Once the SOC has declined to 3%, a critically low level, the REx will recharge the battery. Otherwise, it won't. This will give the US version about a 0.65 kWh buffer to supplement the REx. While that's plenty for accelerations, it's not enough to traverse more than 500 feet of altitude difference.

Thanks for the links. It is clear that the i3 project leader Andreas Feist differentiates the i3 from "a classic plug in hybrid" (Google translation) and intends the REx option only to address range anxiety or exceptional days. But I don't think he can really control the behavior of customers or over-zealous car salesmen who will almost certainly apply the vehicle to the problem currently owned by the Chevy Volt and the Tesla Model S: electric commuting beyond the range of the LEAF. The Volt handles this situation with aplomb and protects the battery by entering charge sustaining mode at around 20% SOC. Granted, the i3 can likely go over 50% farther than the Volt before the engine starts so daily use of the REx will be much more rare in the i3, but some will certainly use it in this manner. So the question I have is how much worse will repeatedly going to ~5% SOC in the i3 be versus going to ~20% SOC in the Volt in terms of battery life? I have to believe there is a real difference, otherwise GM would allow much lower SOC discharges in the Volt, as well.

This, of course, won't be the case in Europe, where the REx can be switched on at or below 75% SOC according to the most recent reports. That should allow the i3 to go on a cross-country trip, if one is willing to refuel frequently. The US version will be much more limited, courtesy of the low reserve SOC.

Does anyone know the reason for the difference in the US? There was some mention of California in one of the links, but the translation was not clear to me. I will point out that the Volt has "Hold" mode, so I can't really imagine it is a regulatory issue.

 

[surfingslovak]

Does anyone know the reason for the difference in the US? There was some mention of California in one of the links, but the translation was not clear to me. I will point out that the Volt has "Hold" mode, so I can't really imagine it is a regulatory issue.

I hope to answer this more fully later today, but a brief search of the CARB website yields the following:

2012 AMENDMENTS TO THE ZERO EMISSION VEHICLE REGULATIONS

 

[TomT]

I think that CARB made the right call in limiting the REX capabilities... (Personally, I would not have allowed such a certification at all...) If BMW wanted more ICE range or flexibility, they should have certified it as a PHEV... Personally, I find the concept of dragging around an extremely limited ICE generator, with its weight penalties and considerable cost, is silly... The Volt concept makes far more sense and a much more versatile vehicle.

2012 AMENDMENTS TO THE ZERO EMISSION VEHICLE REGULATIONS

 

[surfingslovak]

I find the concept of dragging around an extremely limited ICE generator, with its weight penalties and considerable cost, is silly... The Volt concept makes far more sense and a much more versatile vehicle.

2012 AMENDMENTS TO THE ZERO EMISSION VEHICLE REGULATIONS

I have to agree. The Volt has been criticized on occasion for the perceived overkill in terms of providing an effective range extender. While GM might have some room for optimization, at least their solution provides nearly identical performance in EV and REx mode, and allows for long-distance travel. I'm concerned that the i3 REx spec with less than 25 kW effective net power output, 6.5% remaining SOC, and a 2.3 gallon tank might be simply too compromised to be of any real value. I don't think that this is the outcome CARB or BMW had in mind. While I'm eagerly awaiting more test drive reports, I would point out what others have mentioned earlier: BMW should at least consider boosting the maximum gross power output of the REx to about 30 or 35 kW. The engine is rated for up to 65 hp (48.5 kW), and there is plenty of room to do this. Noise or vibration concerns will be the least of worries for someone trying to climb a hill with a critically low battery. The REx is reportedly already very quiet and barely noticeable when running.

 

[evnow]

I think that CARB made the right call in limiting the REX capabilities... (Personally, I would not have allowed such a certification at all...) If BMW wanted more ICE range or flexibility, they should have certified it as a PHEV... Personally, I find the concept of dragging around an extremely limited ICE generator, with its weight penalties and considerable cost, is silly... The Volt concept makes far more sense and a much more versatile vehicle.

I disagree.

Volt is a different kind of animal. i3 w/REx is different.

The correct way to implement BEVx is
- Minimum range of 75 miles (like they have now)
- Increase APU range to 2x or 3x BEV range
- Increase SOC when REx can come on to 20%

This would greatly increase the usage of BEVx and increase the miles driven on ZE.

If I want to go to Portland
- I can take i3 w/REx and drive 70 miles on battery and rest of the way on gas OR
- Rent an ICE and drive 200 miles on gas

Clearly the earlier option is better. With the regulations in place now, I need to go with the second option and reduce ZE travel.

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't been following the details on this... What's the deal w/the "10,000" orders/pre-orders I'm hearing about all over the press?

Are these serious/"real" orders? Do those folks have "skin in the game" and would they forfeit substantial amounts of money for canceling/backing out? Or, were they like the $99 refundable deposits the Leaf had before launch and in '11 model year? (I paid the $99, was refunded, paid it again and was refunded, before Nissan nixed it.)

What about the situation for those in the US interested in the i3? Can they pre-order now?

 

[Berlino]

I wrote to BMW Canada asking if they would present the i3 at the upcoming (January) Montreal auto show.

They replied that the i3 would indeed be making its Canadian premiere there. However, I also asked if test drives would be offered, or if, at the other extreme, they'd simply have a solitary, hermetically sealed vehicle on display. They chose to ignore that part of the question.

 

[johnqh]

I haven't been following the details on this... What's the deal w/the "10,000" orders/pre-orders I'm hearing about all over the press?

Are these serious/"real" orders? Do those folks have "skin in the game" and would they forfeit substantial amounts of money for canceling/backing out? Or, were they like the $99 refundable deposits the Leaf had before launch and in '11 model year? (I paid the $99, was refunded, paid it again and was refunded, before Nissan nixed it.)

What about the situation for those in the US interested in the i3? Can they pre-order now?

I read somewhere there are 8000 preorders, all outside US. US residents will be able to preorder soon

 

[Berlino]

They [dealers accredited to sell i vehicles] also have to agree to dedicate a certain percentage of floor space exclusively to BMW i vehicles and maintain a minimum inventory at all times.

Considering reports about demand outstripping supply, how are dealers going to have spare i vehicles available for test drives, let alone extra cars that they can put on the showroom floor?

Will the floor space dedicated to i vehicles just be filled with brochures and computer screens?

Where I live, the wait for a LEAF can be up to four months. The chance of finding a LEAF on a showroom floor is zero. Out of 25 LEAF-accredited dealers in the province, usually only one or two at a given time have LEAFs that can be test driven. So, when I hear "sold-out" and "eight-month wait," I wonder how BMW can afford to have vehicles available to display and it seems unlikely that dealers will be able to maintain the theoretically required minimum inventory.

 

[TomMoloughney]

They [dealers accredited to sell i vehicles] also have to agree to dedicate a certain percentage of floor space exclusively to BMW i vehicles and maintain a minimum inventory at all times.

Considering reports about demand outstripping supply, how are dealers going to have spare i vehicles available for test drives, let alone extra cars that they can put on the showroom floor?

Will the floor space dedicated to i vehicles just be filled with brochures and computer screens?

Where I live, the wait for a LEAF can be up to four months. The chance of finding a LEAF on a showroom floor is zero. Out of 25 LEAF-accredited dealers in the province, usually only one or two at a given time have LEAFs that can be test driven. So, when I hear "sold-out" and "eight-month wait," I wonder how BMW can afford to have vehicles available to display and it seems unlikely that dealers will be able to maintain the theoretically required minimum inventory.

That could be an issue starting off, but I'm really just guessing like you are about that. I suppose if the dealers can't get a supply, then they wouldn't be held to the agreement to keep a minimum inventory. Even if that is the case, it will work itself out in a few months. BMW will have the ability to make up to 40,000 i3's a year at Leipzig once they are at full capacity. I do like the i3, but I don't think will have sustained ordering that strong. Once the initial backlog of orders are filled, production will be more than enough to keep up with demand in my opinion.

 

[Beleaf]

BMW will have the ability to make up to 40,000 i3's a year at Leipzig once they are at full capacity. I do like the i3, but I don't think will have sustained ordering that strong. Once the initial backlog of orders are filled, production will be more than enough to keep up with demand in my opinion.

One factory producing cars for a worldwide market. 3300 odd capacity per month and a car best suited to cities.

In the US alone, the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt are each currently selling at around 2000 per month. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1088858_plug-in-electric-car-sales-for-november" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; As each market tunes in to EV's there will be substantial sales filling the demand just as has occurred in the US.

Worldwide demand for EV's is growing, not slowing. http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/11/global-electric-vehicle-sales-will-jump-48-each-year-through-20/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the short term, I can see that BMW will get on top of the initial spike in demand, but down the track they will need to expand production beyond the 40,000 capacity at Leipzig. The i3 ticks enough boxes to guarantee it will be a success and pull buyers who are not drawn to the Leaf or Volt.

 

[Beleaf]

Three way test between i3, Leaf and Zoe:

at AUTOBILD (Google Translation)

 

[Boomer23]

Three way test between i3, Leaf and Zoe:

at AUTOBILD (Google Translation)

Thanks for linking this.

The side-by-side pics with LEAF are interesting. Haven't seen the two cars side-by-side before.

Autobild got 158 km range for i3, which is promising (98 miles), BUT they got a similar range with the LEAF, so not so promising.

 

[Beleaf]

The tables from the test for reference:

And a pic

 

[surfingslovak]

Yes, thank you for linking that in. The full article is available for purchase, and although the final ranking was not mentioned in the publicly available excerpt, the photo gallery gives it away. AutoBild is careful to point out that while all three vehicles were eminently practical and good for the environment, their MSRP will virtually ensure their niche status, which the author found regrettable.

 

[Beleaf]

Despite I cannot read German, the article is only 1 Euro, so I bought it.

Leaf fans, cover your ears, the i3 blitzes it in all categories except for body space and payload. It outperforms both competitors on the road in outright performance and handling, the Zoe is the softest but it and the Leaf suffer vehicle dynamics by comparison to the i3. All three are regarded as competent electric commuters.

Worth a Euro for the article, but unless you read German it's a copy and paste job with google translate to get any meaning outside the stats.

 

[Berlino]

Leaf fans, cover your ears, the i3 blitzes it in all categories except for body space and payload.

How about in price?

Perhaps it's different in Europe, but no USA LEAF comes with Michelin E/S tires and 16" wheels.

 

[Beleaf]

Leaf fans, cover your ears, the i3 blitzes it in all categories except for body space and payload.

How about in price?

Perhaps it's different in Europe, but no USA LEAF comes with Michelin E/S tires and 16" wheels.

Good point! The Leaf is 3000 Euro cheaper than the i3, the Zoe is 5000 cheaper than the Leaf.

The Leaf is probably kitted with suitable tyres for local markets. The i3 has narrower 19" wheels and Ecopia tyres but has better handling.

 

[GRA]

I can't wait until one of the car mags here does a comparo between the Spark EV and i3 (for thoroughness, the 500e, LEAF, FFE, HFE should all be included in the test). I don't doubt that the i3 will be better than the Spark, the question is whether it's $15k better. I expect the answer to that will be 'no'.

 

[Boomer23]

This four car comparo from German Autozeitung compares the i3 with LEAF, FFE and VW E-Up.

http://www.autozeitung.de/auto-vergleichstest/bmw-i3-vergleich-vw-e-up-ford-focus-electric-nissan-leaf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The BMW comes out on top again, primarily due to it's superior performance and driving manners. But notice several things:

Price was not a factor in this German comparison because the LEAF was priced almost identically to the i3 in Germany. Not so in the US. The FFE was the most costly car in this comparo, costing about $5k more than the i3 and LEAF.

Though by most performance measures, the i3 lead the pack, in the slalom, which emphasizes lateral dynamics, it fell to a last place tie with the VW. (skinny tires)

The range was no better than LEAF, though the article doesn't list specifics on its tables. The text basically said that the lightness contributed by the revolutionary CFRP construction didn't add any range. (This isn't too surprising, because BMW clearly used the light weight of the car as a reason to use a smaller pack, around 2 kWh of capacity lower than the LEAF.)

The LEAF was tops as far as room and space utilization, but it placed a close fourth in the comparison.