Official BMW i3 thread

[cwerdna]

It's what we expected, but now we know. From insideevs.com:

"BREAKING: BMW i3 BEV Gets Official EPA Rating – Range 81 Miles, 124 MPGe Combined"

http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-bev-official-epa-rating-range-81-mpge-124/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Golly, I'm so excited about that highest in the U.S. MPGe rating, I really don't care about the range.:roll:

Yeah, as I posted below http://priuschat.com/threads/bmw-i3-why-this-little-ev-has-big-potential.135760/page-7#post-2002237" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in response to someone's emphasis about MPGe, I assert that most EV drivers care about range and few care about MPGe.

Also, did anyone notice the word subcompact on the sticker? That strongly implies that's the EPA size classification it got vs. the midsize Leaf. EPA size classifications for other EVs can be found at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evsbs.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; under their Specs tab and also via http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbsSelect" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

FWIW, from http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33900&id=34516&id=34639&id=34400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the '14 Volt and Prius c are compacts, the Plug-in Prius (and regular Prius) and Corolla are midsize.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Heck, I probably can still do 81 in my Leaf on a good day with some tailwind

Hah, 58.9 miles yesterday at 4.3 mi/kWh down to 34 GIDs. Assuming (big assumption?) turtle comes on at 8 GIDs and maintain 4.3 mi/kWh, that's another 8.7 miles for 67.6 miles to turtle. Yep, going to need a good tailwind.

All you need to do is head north from my house: downhill all the way. 81 miles, no problem. Getting back: big problem!

...Golly, I'm so excited about that highest in the U.S. MPGe rating, I really don't care about the range.:roll:

Add me to the list of those who are mystified by the focus on the nearly useless MPGe number.

 

[eHelmholtz]

Range is officially less than the 2014 LEAF!

 

[DanCar]

Range is officially less than the 2014 LEAF!

Summary of differences:
1. Almost twice the price
2. less range
3. faster acceleration
4. BMW quality
5. active cooling of the battery
6. smaller: 4 seat vs 5.
7. suicide doors versus normal passenger doors.
8. Will cost you a few pennies less to drive because of the higher MPGe number.

 

[Valdemar]

Range is officially less than the 2014 LEAF!

Summary of differences:
1. Almost twice the price
2. less range
3. faster acceleration
4. BMW quality
5. active cooling of the battery
6. smaller: 4 seat vs 5.
7. suicide doors versus normal passenger doors.
8. Will cost you a few pennies less to drive because of the higher MPGe number.

Is #4 a pro or a con?

 

[JeremyW]

Having owned a BMW and seeing what the Active E folks went through... #4 is probably a con. :roll:

 

[DanCar]

Having owned a BMW and seeing what the Active E folks went through... #4 is probably a con. :roll:

We should probably cut BMW a break with Active E since it was a beta platform. But how do the problems compare to thin Nissan paint, bad navigation system, and of course battery degradation.

 

[evnow]

Having owned a BMW and seeing what the Active E folks went through... #4 is probably a con. :roll:

We should probably cut BMW a break with Active E since it was a beta platform. But how do the problems compare to thin Nissan paint, bad navigation system, and of course battery degradation.

Nissan Leaf's quality has been stellar for people like us unaffected by the battery degradation. For a 1st gen EV with no public trials etc, it has been better than I expected.

 

[tailgate1234]

Range is officially less than the 2014 LEAF!

Summary of differences:
1. Almost twice the price
2. less range
3. faster acceleration
4. BMW quality
5. active cooling of the battery
6. smaller: 4 seat vs 5.
7. suicide doors versus normal passenger doors.
8. Will cost you a few pennies less to drive because of the higher MPGe number.

Size: the back seat has very little legroom.

Safety: crash test ratings aren't in but it may do very well with the carbon fiber "life module" thing.

Design: maybe it's me, but I think it's fugly.

 

[cwerdna]

Hopefully Tony can get back to San Diego and do one of his famous range tests on an i3... It'd be interesting to also do it on the REx version, whenever they start showing up in the US.

Having owned a BMW and seeing what the Active E folks went through... #4 is probably a con. :roll:

We should probably cut BMW a break with Active E since it was a beta platform. But how do the problems compare to thin Nissan paint, bad navigation system, and of course battery degradation.

Nissan Leaf's quality has been stellar for people like us unaffected by the battery degradation. For a 1st gen EV with no public trials etc, it has been better than I expected.

Yep. The bad navigation system isn't a reliability problem. As for thin Nissan paint, mine's blue and I haven't noticed any thinness issue (yes, I have heard of complaints here of thin paint on MIJ blue Leafs). I will say that my former (MIJ in Oppama) 02 silver Maxima had paint that chipped VERY easily (http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generation-maxima-2000-2003/109778-my-max-turns-one-year-old-today-no-door-dings.html#post1060692" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Numerous ActiveE folks have had MAJOR car disabling problems (e.g. spline issue, "Darth Maul", failing on-board chargers (KLE in ActiveE parlance), EVSE compat problems all over the place, crazy electrical problems, etc.), sometimes multiple times, resulting in weeks of downtime. Fortunately, for BMW, it seems many (most?) ActiveE lessees were quite forgiving and tolerant of these problems. If I had one, I probably wouldn't be and would be PISSED given how expensive the leases were.

BMWs ICEVs don't exactly have a great rep for reliability either. They're nowhere near a Honda or Toyota nor are most up to par w/a reasonably reliable Nissan (but Nissan definitely has some major reliability duds, more so than Honda/Toyota). I have no interest in BMWs but if I did, I doubt I'd want to keep one much beyond warranty expiration. I guess if one's leasing, that doesn't matter.

 

[Beleaf]

Range is officially less than the 2014 LEAF!

By an EPA 3 miles, isn't it? That's really something to crow about!

All that means is that Nissan and BMW agree on the most efficient range for an urban EV.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkU5OjMw0Os" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The VW E-UP! won!

Sure, it's not normal driving, and I don't think they started with a 100% battery, just 100km range. Be great to see a similar trial with the cars driving at the same speeds from a full battery.

 

[JeremyW]

The "crowing" is the cost of the i3 is crazy high compared to the range you get! This is just stupid amounts of BMW tax. All that carbon fiber and 600 pounds lighter than a leaf but not more aerodynamic than one. I live in an urban environment and I'd argue it's not enough range with the current public infrastructure. Not for that price.

 

[TomT]

No, all it shows is that Nissan and BMW agreed on the minimum range that would get them the maximum carbon credits based on ROI...

All that means is that Nissan and BMW agree on the most efficient range for an urban EV.

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, all it shows is that Nissan and BMW agreed on the minimum range that would get them the maximum carbon credits...

All that means is that Nissan and BMW agree on the most efficient range for an urban EV.

Type V - 300+ miles range "hydrogen" - Credit per vehicle: 9 (2015-2017 only)
Type V - 300+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 7
Type IV - 200+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 5
Type III - 100+ miles range "fast refueling" - Credit per vehicle: 4
Type III - 200+ miles range -------------- Credit per vehicle: 4
Type II - 100+ miles range --------------- Credit per vehicle: 3
Type I.5 - 75-100 miles range ----------- Credit per vehicle: 2.5
Type I - 50-75 miles range --------------- Credit per vehicle: 2

After 2017, the credits for Type III, IV and V drop to 3

For 2015 and beyond, from CARB:

"BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs."

CARB-ZEV credit (not credit per car):

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

For 2012-2014 "Phase 3", 12% of production must meet Yearly ZEV requirements (including ZEV's, Enhanced AT PZEVs, ATPZEVs and PZEVs). Of that 12%, 0.79% must be ZEV.

Any type of ZEV may be used

 

[evnow]

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

From 2018, since every year the % keeps increasing, I think the usual "compliance" car - like Spark or Fit or Rav4 will not suffice. They will have to start selling more & more vehicles every year.

BTW, when we say Leaf gets 3 credits - does that mean the 6% they need in 2020 is actually 6/3 = 2% ?

 

[Berlino]

BTW, when we say Leaf gets 3 credits - does that mean the 6% they need in 2020 is actually 6/3 = 2% ?

Yep. The funny thing is that a few auto manufacturers commissioned a study to prove that ZEV requirements will go up to quick for manufacturer's to meet them.

The study projected 4% EVs in the year where the requirement is 10%, apparently not realizing that this is enough to meet the target, even without considering that FCVs also count.

 

[KeiJidosha]

"...living in the future."

BMW i3 Experience – Video

 

[Beleaf]

Range is officially less than the 2014 LEAF!

By an EPA 3 miles, isn't it? That's really something to crow about!

All that means is that Nissan and BMW agree on the most efficient range for an urban EV.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkU5OjMw0Os" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The VW E-UP! won!

Sure, it's not normal driving, and I don't think they started with a 100% battery, just 100km range. Be great to see a similar trial with the cars driving at the same speeds from a full battery.

I agree that there is a price difference between electric vehicles, I also think that the primary use for an EV is short trips around urban areas. Adding masses of battery capacity impacts vehicle efficiency. Sure, some people need greater range and their needs will probably be met in the future as the market for EV's broaden.

Repeating a post multiple times just to push a post you don't like back a page isn't really the way to discuss an issue.

 

[JeremyW]

Repeating a post multiple times just to push a post you don't like back a page isn't really the way to discuss an issue.

I kept getting a 500 error and the post wasn't showing up on the page. Then a half hour later after giving up on posting I got the "too many connections" SQL error that's been plaguing the site for weeks. I had no intention of submitting the post more than once, sorry.

edit: Drees has now removed the extra posts

 

[Beleaf]

Fair enough, the duplicates seem to have evaporated now

I don't disagree with your BMW tax comment. On the other hand, it's pretty rare to see a mainstream auto manufacturer go so radical in re-inventing the production process for an auto. That is one of the reasons I have an order in, bravery like that needs support. I'd also have ordered a Tesla if they made a Leaf/i3 sized one. Model S is way too large for me. The reason I didn't get a Leaf is the battery loss issue and the lack of a battery thermal management system (I'm in a high summer heat area, equivalent to Phoenix, AZ). Nissan didn't do themselves any favours with their pre-sales contact either...