Official BMW i3 thread

[TonyWilliams]

Seems to me that the CARB standard for the white sticker ought to be determined by what actually drives the wheels. Since VOLT/ELR and the Prii have a direct connection from the ice to the wheels they don't qualify. Since the BMW only uses fuel to charge the battery and not drive the wheels it should be ok.

The white sticker is for zero emissions, not drive methods.

It either pollutes, or it doesn't.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The car can do CHAdeMO,,, but bimmer signed up with GM Satan Inc., the people killing company that wants to slow the uptake of pure electrics until their monolithic monster can catch up. So... they want the CCS Combo plug instead... the vapor plug that is slowing CHAdeMO installs and providing almost no actual charges to anyone for the next year.

BMW gives most of their very vibrant PR to the Frankenplug mess, but the reality is that BMW is already signed up for:

CHAdeMO for sales in Japan
SAE CCS Combo1 for USA
Menekkes CCS Combo2 for Europe

and probably GB/T in China.

In other words, they already support everything (again, assuming they also use GB/T).

 

[surfingslovak]

Seems to me that the CARB standard for the white sticker ought to be determined by what actually drives the wheels. Since VOLT/ELR and the Prii have a direct connection from the ice to the wheels they don't qualify. Since the BMW only uses fuel to charge the battery and not drive the wheels it should be ok.

The white sticker is for zero emissions, not drive methods.

It either pollutes, or it doesn't.

No, this is incorrect. The white sticker program has been created for alternative fuel vehicles. That's why the Honda Civic GX qualifies and the Chevy Volt doesn't, even though the amounts of air pollutants they emit is comparable, and the Volt could have a distinct environmental advantage on short commutes. Be it as it may, the Volt won't get the white stickers, and the i3 most likely won't get them either, despite the new BEVx category and designation. I tried to explain this to Anton, who has perpetuated this myth, but it largely flew over his head. I think he is more cognizant of the mess that has been created, but it may be too late to fix it.

 

[GRA]

I've tried to explain the white sticker situation for a while now and it seems the majority of people just "want" to believe BMW was trying to get a white sticker, but that just isn't the truth. Of course they would take it id CARB decided to be generous, but that is highly unlikely and BMW knows it.

Yes, people want to believe BMW is doing all this for customer benefit - not to get some credits.

I should say when white sticker story was floating around, BMW didn't attempt to correct that (atleast not that I know of). So, they were happy with the customer oriented white sticker story compared to back room credit story.

I for one have never believed that BMW was doing anything for customer benefit, I've always believed that they would make decisions based on customer _desires_ to improve _sales_. If the car is perceived to be too expensive and too limited, then BMW won't sell enough in California and other CARB states to meet their minimum credits, and will have to make changes if they want to keep selling their high-profit 5s, 6s, and 7s here.

 

[evnow]

I for one have never believed that BMW was doing anything for customer benefit, I've always believed that they would make decisions based on customer _desires_ to improve _sales_.

Ofcourse, no one accuses corporations of altruism. But companies doing something to improve customer benefits (and there by improving sales) is a good thing.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It either pollutes, or it doesn't.

But if cars are only 10% of the problem we should be supportive of solutions that cut 90% of that 10%, particularly when solutions that cut out 100% of the 10% carry tbeir own set of issues, like the impact of producing a much larger battery pack, or merely being unaffordable to many.

 

[mkjayakumar]

LTL has a point..

 

[evnow]

I think it makes sense to have different stickers for PHEVs & BEVs. This would help advance BEVs by giving slightly better incentives for BEVs (which are admittedly more difficult to adopt to) compared to PHEVs.

The question is - should long BEV range PHEVs get that same slightly better incentive. That is definitely a debateable point.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

IMO we need to move the mindset of a large consumer base from pure ICE to "anything with a plug". From there, over time, that mass of consumers will collectively drive the market to better and better things with plugs... far more effectively than carrot and stick tools like carpool lane stickers and tax credits.

 

[evnow]

IMO we need to move the mindset of a large consumer base from pure ICE to "anything with a plug". From there, over time, that mass of consumers will collectively drive the market to better and better things with plugs... far more effectively than carrot and stick tools like carpool lane stickers and tax credits.

How do you "move the mindset" - without using the only tools the government really has - incentives like carpool lane stickers & tax credits ?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

IMO we need to move the mindset of a large consumer base from pure ICE to "anything with a plug". From there, over time, that mass of consumers will collectively drive the market to better and better things with plugs... far more effectively than carrot and stick tools like carpool lane stickers and tax credits.

How do you "move the mindset" - without using the only tools the government really has - incentives like carpool lane stickers & tax credits ?

I meant that those tools won't get you to the level of large scale adoption that drives manufacturers to really compete... short of draconian measures.

 

[dgpcolorado]

How do you "move the mindset" - without using the only tools the government really has - incentives like carpool lane stickers & tax credits ?

Not that it is politically possible, given our pathologically tax-averse culture, but a significant gas (or carbon) tax, to reflect the external costs of fossil fuels, would change the incentives considerably.

During the gas shortages of the '70s I supported gradually raising the gas tax by 10¢/gallon per year. Had we done that, the playing field for electric cars would be quite different today. By using simple market forces.

 

[evnow]

I meant that those tools won't get you to the level of large scale adoption that drives manufacturers to really compete... short of draconian measures.

Well, govt measures can only kickstart - after that the industry has to stand on its own feet.

Just like HDTV, for eg. I remember people really cribbing about the regulations that forced local broadcasters to move to HD and how expensive the HDTVs were and how fast the CRT was burning out or how the logos were leaving marks on the CRT or ... just 10/15 years back.

 

[pkulak]

How do you "move the mindset" - without using the only tools the government really has - incentives like carpool lane stickers & tax credits ?

Not that it is politically possible, given our pathologically tax-averse culture, but a significant gas (or carbon) tax, to reflect the external costs of fossil fuels, would change the incentives considerably.

During the gas shortages of the '70s I supported gradually raising the gas tax by 10¢/gallon per year. Had we done that, the playing field for electric cars would be quite different today. By using simple market forces.

This. Gas is way too cheap.

 

[evnow]

Not that it is politically possible, given our pathologically tax-averse culture, but a significant gas (or carbon) tax, to reflect the external costs of fossil fuels, would change the incentives considerably.

Well, that is still an "intervention" in the "free market" that some conservatives would not like.

The truth is that "free market" ideas have no answer on how to handle environmental issues - which comes under the well known tragedy of commons in economics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The tragedy of the commons is an economics theory by Garrett Hardin, according to which individuals, acting independently and rationally according to each one's self-interest, behave contrary to the whole group's long-term best interests by depleting some common resource. The concept is often cited in connection with sustainable development, meshing economic growth and environmental protection, as well as in the debate over global warming.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Well, that is still an "intervention" in the "free market" that some conservatives would not like...

Oh yes, I agree with you. It's just that when I put on my economist's hat, raising the gas price in this way is much more efficient than targeted subsides, such as tax credits or HOV lane stickers.

I'm old enough to appreciate how far we've come from the pre-EPA days, when it comes to air and water pollution. But the "commons" issue you raise is a tough one to address. And it is an article of faith among some that the EPA needs to be killed and that all regulation is bad. Living in hardrock mining and oil and gas country, as I do, I get to see the effects of unregulated resource exploitation first-hand. You in the PNW get to see how cheap power via dams affects salmon fisheries.

There are no easy answers. But a gradually increasing gas tax seems like a no-brainer to me. Not that it can happen in the current political environment.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Increasing the gasoline tax hits the poor the hardest. The guy with the Escalade keeps right on doing what he (or she) is doing.
Ooops, this isn't really about the i3.

 

[Clippy]

Increasing the gasoline tax hits the poor the hardest. The guy with the Escalade keeps right on doing what he (or she) is doing.
Ooops, this isn't really about the i3.

No, but it did a darn fine job of burying all the posts discussing something as non-ethereal as how much the darn thing costs. Where is our favorite BMW "Ambassador," anyway?

From the looks of the latest Tesla "Business Lease" he could be working over there, too.

 

[evnow]

Increasing the gasoline tax hits the poor the hardest. The guy with the Escalade keeps right on doing what he (or she) is doing.

True - gas tax increase can't be the sole action. There have been some innovative ideas around this - including redistributing the tax collected that might help the poor. But we need better public transport - though the sprawl will make that impossible.

Ooops, this isn't really about the i3.

True.

 

[pkulak]

http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-rex-new-details-us-dealer-training-session/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the tank is now 1.9 gallons. What a waste of engineering. Amazing that BMW is willing to sacrifice their car this much for some EV credits. There is almost no point at all in getting the REX now, unless swapping in a larger tank becomes an easy after-market modification. Can you imagine stopping at a gas station and putting in 1.5 gallons? I'd feel like a total tool doing that. Especially multiple times. It would make more sense to keep a gas can in the trunk and pull over at rest stops.