Official BMW i3 thread

[TomMoloughney]

Here's a pic that is very close to the production i3:

 

[Boomer23]

Thanks for the nice pic, Tom, and I'll add my welcome to the forum.

It's always hard for me to picture the final product when the car is covered with that swirly plastic. Do you think that the double kidney grille is under there somewhere?

For those who haven't been following the i3 news closely, note that the rear doors hinge at the rear (used to be called "suicide doors" in the olden days), and there is no "B" pillar, so entry to the rear should be easy, though both the front and the rear doors need to be open.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Thanks for the nice pic, Tom, and I'll add my welcome to the forum.

It's always hard for me to picture the final product when the car is covered with that swirly plastic. Do you think that the double kidney grille is under there somewhere?

For those who haven't been following the i3 news closely, note that the rear doors hinge at the rear (used to be called "suicide doors" in the olden days), and there is no "B" pillar, so entry to the rear should be easy, though both the front and the rear doors need to be open.

Thanks, I've been lurking around here for a while, just reading about the LEAF mostly. I do like the LEAF and had a deposit on one but withdrew it when I found about it would only have 3.3kW charging. I had been living with a MINI-E and charging at 11kW's and I knew I couldn't go down to 3.3. My ActiveE can charge at 7.7kW's and I'm even complaining that it's too slow! I drive a lot and need to quickly recharge during the day. I already have 11,000 miles on my ActiveE in less than 4 months.

To answer your question: Yes, it will sport the BMW double kidney grill, it still is a BMW! The only visible difference that the i brand cars will have is the BMW circular logo will have a light blue outer ring around it and the "i" emblem, besides looking a bit futuristic of course. I'm going to have i3 information as soon as it's available and will post here for anyone interested. I'm even hoping to drive a pre-production model sometime this year.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The 10kW charger in the Rav4 and Tesla S are big sales incentives for me.

 

[gergg]

The 10kW charger in the Rav4 and Tesla S are big sales incentives for me.

What kw charger will the i3 have?

 

[TomMoloughney]

The 10kW charger in the Rav4 and Tesla S are big sales incentives for me.

What kw charger will the i3 have?

7.7kw onboard charger and level 3 DC quick charge (SAE combo plug)

It will charge in 3 hours @ level 2 and to 80% in about 20-25mins Level 3.

 

[gergg]

7.7kw onboard charger and level 3 DC quick charge (SAE combo plug)

It will charge in 3 hours @ level 2 and to 80% in about 20-25mins Level 3.

That's nice....Tom, what is the earliest date we can expect the i3? We've heard pricing from 35k-45k any idea what pricing level is realistic?

 

[TomMoloughney]

7.7kw onboard charger and level 3 DC quick charge (SAE combo plug)

It will charge in 3 hours @ level 2 and to 80% in about 20-25mins Level 3.

That's nice....Tom, what is the earliest date we can expect the i3? We've heard pricing from 35k-45k any idea what pricing level is realistic?

The i3 will launch in September of 2013. They are actually a few months ahead of schedule and had planned on offering the REx range extender option a few months after the BEV i3 launches, but now I think it's going to be available right out of the gate.

The price is anyone's guess. BMW is really keeping this top secret. The only official statement they have made is that it will definitely cost less than a 5 series which starts at 47K.

My guess is 42-44k, but it really is a guess. I have heard people say they have inside info that it will be as low as 35k and I cannot believe that. Maybe they are talking about 35k after the federal tax credit, that would make sense if the car was priced at $42,500. It simply cannot be 35k pre-tax credit. It's entirely carbon fiber and aluminum with some reinforced plastic outer panels, will have a premium interior and some really cool electronic features. There even been some talk of autonomous driving at speeds under 20mph: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1064328_2014-bmw-i3-autonomous-urban-driving-nearly-with-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

I'm reasonably certain that my next EV will not be a Nissan Company product... There are just too many more interesting options that will be online by the time my four year lease is up...

 

[Boomer23]

More up to date info on the i3 from Tom Moloughny's blog: http://activeemobility.blogspot.com/2012/05/tesla-cadillac-and-infinity-to-compete.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Boomer23]

I have no inside information, but pics like this one seem to be the most realistic depiction of how the production i3 may look. This one is from a British magazine, but I saw a similar picture in the print version of the US magazine Automobile.

 

[TomMoloughney]

I have no inside information, but pics like this one seem to be the most realistic depiction of how the production i3 may look. This one is from a British magazine, but I saw a similar picture in the print version of the US magazine Automobile.

They really just took the concept and toned it down a bit. They also forgot the rear 'coach style' door and definitely have the lower front end and side skirt area wrong. I can assure you the magazine hasn't seen the production i3 yet. In fact, only a small group in BMW actually have.

 

[Boomer23]

Some other questions that have occurred to me about the i3:

I'm not trying to pick the i3 apart. I'm actually very interested in the i3 as a possible replacement for my LEAF.

Relating to the carbon fiber passenger structure:
a. Since cf shatters rather than deforming when it reaches the point where it's overstressed, will passengers be surrounded with flying bits of cf, which could be dangerous, during a crash (albeit a very high impact crash)?
b. The same being true, what about passenger safety in second impacts after the first crash that compromises the cf safety cage, such as a rollover?
c. Who will repair the cf cage and how, or is it considered that at the point that the cage is damaged, the car will be totaled anyway, since the strength of the impact to damage the cage will always be enough to damage the car beyond reasonable repair?
d. With no "b pillar", one assumes that the side door beams in the overlapping "coach" doors have to handle all of the side impact duties, right? US crash tests cover side impacts, so the car will need to pass those tests before it can be sold here.

Relating to the REx range extender engine, fuel tank and related hardware:
e. Where in the structure will this hardware be placed? With the basic i3 likely properly balanced in the ideal 50:50 weight distribution, BMW would need to place the additional mass of these components without disrupting the car's balance.
f. I read somewhere that the REx would be placed midships, which would answer the weight distribution question, but what does that do to passenger and cargo capacity and ergonomics?

These aren't necessarily directed toward Tom, but anyone with thoughts or ideas is welcome to respond.

Cheers!

 

[gergg]

Boomer......I have to say I've had the same thoughts/concerns about the CF construction, and what about insuring that car, might be interesting.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm confident that there will be a mix with Kevlar, or other "bendable" material. When carbon breaks, it is so sharp, it could slice your head off.

 

[Herm]

If the inner CF cage shatters, the impact must have been hard to enough to kill you anyways. The crumple structure outside the cage is there for a reason.

Many cars are totaled today, too expensive to repair... then they are sold at auction with a bad title.

 

[TomMoloughney]

I never specifically spoke to anyone about the safety aspect of it, but I did speak to Rich Steinberg (BMW NA electric vehicle program manager) about the strength, crash worthiness, and cost to repair the cars that have been in accidents.

Basically, I was told these cars have actually performed better in crash testing then their steel counterparts do. As for repairing he said they can easily cut out the damaged section and glue (yes glue!) the replacement segment into place. BMW has developed a new way that they glue/fuse the CFRP together and they aren't letting people see it. Even the i3 CFRP shells that are on display that used this process have the seems covered with thick tape so it's not exposed. I was told the repair process will not cost more than what it would cost to repair a regular BMW that had similar damage.

Here's another thing that I was told that is hard to believe. You know they are using a similar 'skateboard' construction to what Tesla is doing with the Model S. The frame with the powertrain and batteries(the Drive Module) are made completely separately from the passenger compartment (BMW calls it the Life Cell) and near the end of production the two are mated. There is only four bolts and glue that hold the two together! Furthermore, I was told the bolts are only there to line up the two and hold them in place for the glue to dry. After the glue is dried, you could even cut the bolts away if you wanted to because the glue is all that is necessary. The whole car is basically just glued together.

By the way, expect to see this extensive use of CFRP spread to the gas BMW's really soon

 

[surfingslovak]

Boomer, great questions, I really enjoy following this thread. For what it's worth, I used to be an avid road cyclist and purchased couple of carbon-fiber bikes more than a decade ago. I initially had many of the same concerns. I was especially worried that the frame could come apart on a high-speed descent in the coastal foothills, where I used to ride almost on a daily basis. Needless to say, my concerns were overblown, and I ended up replacing almost everything on the bike with carbon-fiber components, including the wheels. You really don't want the wheels to fail, but I had high confidence in the material, and wanted to save weight so I could go up those hills faster ;-)

I did see couple of failures as well, but nothing like I would have expected. One of my bikes was run over by a car, and it developed a crack around the rear wheel base. It was still ride-able, but I had to send it in to the manufacturer for repair. They simply swapped out the affected chain stay, glued and cured it. The repair was either free or very reasonably priced, I forgot the details. The carbon wheel developed a nick on the perimeter after I rode over a road reflector at high speed. I sent it to the manufacturer, and they replaced it with a new wheel at a discounted price. A friend of mine managed to be involved in a head-on collision with a tree. Although he is one of the most stubborn people I know, the tree prevailed. It was a pretty bad accident, and the only thing that looked perfect in the aftermath was the carbon bike frame.

In my experience, only few carbon structures are manufactured in one piece. I believe that such process is called monocoque design, and is very expensive. Carbon frames are typically glued together, like Tom said above, and they typically come apart at the seams.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaoq8Mc4xxw[/youtube]

I have a small business that specializes in carbon fibre processing. Lately we have begun doing repairs to bikes when possible. This one belongs to a friend Karl who for forgot it was on the roof of his car when he drove into an underground car park. Before and after repair.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Relating to the REx range extender engine, fuel tank and related hardware:
e. Where in the structure will this hardware be placed? With the basic i3 likely properly balanced in the ideal 50:50 weight distribution, BMW would need to place the additional mass of these components without disrupting the car's balance.
f. I read somewhere that the REx would be placed midships, which would answer the weight distribution question, but what does that do to passenger and cargo capacity and ergonomics?

These aren't necessarily directed toward Tom, but anyone with thoughts or ideas is welcome to respond.

Cheers!

Take a look at the video in the link below. You'll see the power electronics and motor are on the right side of the rear axel leaving a good amount of room on the left side. I believe that is where the small gas tank will be. I think the engine will be in the frunk so you will lose that luggage space.(which really isn't much anyway)
I don't have any confirmation on this though, and will definitely pass that along here once I get it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpMZaqoo5Y8&feature=topics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Boomer23]

Relating to the REx range extender engine, fuel tank and related hardware:
e. Where in the structure will this hardware be placed? With the basic i3 likely properly balanced in the ideal 50:50 weight distribution, BMW would need to place the additional mass of these components without disrupting the car's balance.
f. I read somewhere that the REx would be placed midships, which would answer the weight distribution question, but what does that do to passenger and cargo capacity and ergonomics?

These aren't necessarily directed toward Tom, but anyone with thoughts or ideas is welcome to respond.

Cheers!

Take a look at the video in the link below. You'll see the power electronics and motor are on the right side of the rear axel leaving a good amount of room on the left side. I believe that is where the small gas tank will be. I think the engine will be in the frunk so you will lose that luggage space.(which really isn't much anyway)
I don't have any confirmation on this though, and will definitely pass that along here once I get it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpMZaqoo5Y8&feature=topics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice video, Tom, thanks.

It looked to me from the rear spin-around view, that the empty space was on the right side of the car, but I guess it depends on your point of view.