Nissan corporate news

[danrjones]

Here is a portion of my sticker below. So maybe on the new stickers they show both, or on their website. But at least for my 2018 they only showed combined range. I give the EPA credit for trying, but range matters, and they really should show both and should be realistic to boot.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

So my choice is between the Leaf, that can't get me to the airport, and the Bolt, which can't get my luggage to the airport...
That sounds like a great set of options. :lol:

I choose the longer range and take my luggage, leave my wife and kid behind.

Interesting view you have there. Both my 24 kwh LEAFs went nearly 45,000 miles. How far is that airport?

 

[danrjones]

I was of course being funny. But LAX is 155 miles at 70 mph with significant terrain.

I was just looking at what is needed for me to truly replace my truck or outback. In other words to get to EV only. Long ways to go.

 

[lorenfb]

I was of course being funny. But LAX is 155 miles at 70 mph with significant terrain.

Not the most pleasant drive even in an ICEV!

 

[danrjones]

I was of course being funny. But LAX is 155 miles at 70 mph with significant terrain.

Not the most pleasant drive even in an ICEV!

No, not fun, its 3 hours with no traffic for me, 4 or more with traffic. So stopping to charge when I'm trying to catch a flight - or avoid traffic - wouldn't be high on my list.

Anyway, don't want to drag this off topic. I really like my leaf for what I bought it for. I had two vehicles, I was driving an old truck and my wife a 2018 outback, and I wanted to get into the EV. It interested me as an engineer, and it offered a new more reliable ride for my daily driving. I did the math and I would have saved about 100-150 a month when everything like DMV, gas, car payment, etc, is added up if I had stayed in my truck and stayed with two vehicles. And in the long run, for just my wife and I, two vehicles makes more sense. But I was willing to pay a bit each month to try it out. For my daily driving in town its fantastic.

The point for the long run, and for companies like Nissan, is where they need to get to. I love Tesla, but they are a luxury company. They value performance, and so do their customers. But for a daily driver to replace my outback and truck, I do not need performance like that, but I do need the range, and a low price point compared to where we are today. I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

 

[lorenfb]

I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

Nissan with an upscaled Leaf (Ariya) will never compete/achieve any significant sales volume, e.g. near Tesla's M3 volume.
Most likely the Nissan Ariya will even have less appeal than the Leaf. A good example is the marginal sales of the Infinti, even
when just compared to the Lexus, and Lexus is not even in a class with Mercedes or BMW.

 

[GaleHawkins]

I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

Nissan with an upscaled Leaf (Ariya) will never compete/achieve any significant sales volume, e.g. near Tesla's M3 volume.
Most likely the Nissan Ariya will even have less appeal than the Leaf. A good example is the marginal sales of the Infinti, even
when just compared to the Lexus, and Lexus is not even in a class with Mercedes or BMW.

While I agree with you on the likely future of the Ariya it makes me sad for the people that spent years trying to get the Ariya concept to production. With the recent news from Nissan that the Infinity brand was being pulled in Europe caught me off guard because I was not aware they were still using that name in the USA.. Being 150 miles from factory in TN we have many low end Nissan cars and small pick-ups on the road. The Korean brands have been getting Nissan's customer for years now and it seems the tipping point from Japan to Korea has happened especially EV wise.

 

[GRA]

Here is a portion of my sticker below. So maybe on the new stickers they show both, or on their website. But at least for my 2018 they only showed combined range. I give the EPA credit for trying, but range matters, and they really should show both and should be realistic to boot.

As you note only Combined range is on the Monroney sticker, and the City/Hwy/Combined range breakdown is also not on the basic EPA webpage for the car. The info is usually found on the emissions certification application for the vehicle, which can be tough to find. Often the only way we know about the breakdown is if it's mentioned in a news article, or someone finds the emissions certification page on the EPA website and provides a link. Here's the Bolt's: https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=38567&flag=1

The raw ranges found on pages 6 and 7 for the UDDS (364.4 miles) and the Hwy (310.63 miles) test cycles are then reduced by some multiplier I forget, and then those two are combined by some weighting I also forget (maybe 55% UDDS/45% Hwy?) to arrive at the Combined range. Doing the math, as I'm virtually certain the pre-2020 Bolt's EPA Hwy range is 217 miles, it seems the multiplication factor for the Hwy range is 0.7. IIRR the pre-2020 Bolt rates something like 254 or 255 miles City. Using the same 0.7 multiplier for the raw City value I get 255 miles, so those both agree with my memory, and using 55% UDDS/45% HWY weighting I get 237.9, which again checks with the Bolts's 238 Combined rating.

BTW, the reduced Hwy range for EVs compared to the Combined range typically given, where the City range is much higher for EVs thanks to greater efficiency at low speeds, regen and no energy use while stopped, compared to ICEs where Hwy range exceeds City range, is another reason that even more range is required to make BEVs competitive with ICEs for road trips.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^^
Yeah. And, I haven't done a thorough search but the first one I checked had the uncorrected/unadjusted miles.

For instance, I looked at (238 mile) 2019 Bolt at https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41898&id=40520 and selected California under Energy and Environment. It points to certification of KGMXV00.0002. A Google search for that id turned up https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=45708&flag=1.

I noticed these test procedures:
81 - Charge Depleting UDDS which got Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 364.4
84 - Charge Depleting Highway --> Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 310.63

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml points to this doc about adjustments and procedures for EVs and PHEVs: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA%20test%20procedure%20for%20EVs-PHEVs-11-14-2017.pdf.

 

[GRA]

^^^See my previous post which I've edited to include more detail.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

That is well, stretching it a bit. For crying out loud, even Chrysler/Fiat is still around and they are... well, anyway.

We can think Nissan will simply disintegrate into dust but that is so unlikely its laughable. Realize GM is still here. Remember when their stock was trading at 8 cents a share? On its way DOWN!

This is nothing but big business stalling tactics. They ALL know the gasser time is limited and EVs will have to be developed and ALL of them are well on their way to doing just that. But they will milk the Carbon Cow for every drop first.

 

[danrjones]

I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

That is well, stretching it a bit. For crying out loud, even Chrysler/Fiat is still around and they are... well, anyway.

We can think Nissan will simply disintegrate into dust but that is so unlikely its laughable. Realize GM is still here. Remember when their stock was trading at 8 cents a share? On its way DOWN!

This is nothing but big business stalling tactics. They ALL know the gasser time is limited and EVs will have to be developed and ALL of them are well on their way to doing just that. But they will milk the Carbon Cow for every drop first.

Yes, they are around because of government bail outs. will that happen again? It might. It might not.

 

[GaleHawkins]

I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

That is well, stretching it a bit. For crying out loud, even Chrysler/Fiat is still around and they are... well, anyway.

We can think Nissan will simply disintegrate into dust but that is so unlikely its laughable. Realize GM is still here. Remember when their stock was trading at 8 cents a share? On its way DOWN!

This is nothing but big business stalling tactics. They ALL know the gasser time is limited and EVs will have to be developed and ALL of them are well on their way to doing just that. But they will milk the Carbon Cow for every drop first.

If Nissan is willing to pull out of Europe closing one of three Leaf plants to protect jobs back in their homeland factories why will they not pull back from the USA as well to save some face with the people of Japan if the downsizing does not save Nissan? Per one report the downsizing of Nissan plans should be out by May.

Have you not read the trade and financial news about Nissan just since the start of 2020? If you will google the Nissan mess you may understand what the Youtubers are saying about Nissan.

My take is the the Nissan that I have known for 50 years having owning 6 Nissan vehicles with one being for 30 years is now GONE for good. The French thing just never went down well for some in Japan. How many more inside of Nissan are facing jail in Japan for enabling Carlos alleged crimes? The CEO did not make off with $91 million that Nissan is suing Carlos to recover without some deep inside help I would think. Why has Carlos sued Nissan for $15 million? Look that their public financial statements and notice the post Carlos era numbers.

 

[danrjones]

Agree with all of that.

But I think it's important to note they weren't just talking about nissan failing to survive the transition. Some of them predicted none would make it.

Now I'd fully agree they are biased toward EVs. But they have sound logic. Traditional automakers relied on the dealer model. They also relied on their ICE supply chain and experience. Startups do not have those challenges or mouths to feed. Sure, most startups will fail. But only a few need to succeed. And they dont have to worry about siphoning off their profitable ICE vehicles like Toyota. The details go on but you can watch if you want.

Now if I remove some positive EV bias I'd guess some traditional automakers will make the transition and some will not. Maybe 50/50. Maybe ford will survive and toyota will fail. Maybe VW will survive if they can figure out software. TBD

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I believe some of the Youtuber's when they suggest companies like Nissan might not be able to make the transition, so it will be interesting to see the Ariya and how Nissan moves forward.

That is well, stretching it a bit. For crying out loud, even Chrysler/Fiat is still around and they are... well, anyway.

We can think Nissan will simply disintegrate into dust but that is so unlikely its laughable. Realize GM is still here. Remember when their stock was trading at 8 cents a share? On its way DOWN!

This is nothing but big business stalling tactics. They ALL know the gasser time is limited and EVs will have to be developed and ALL of them are well on their way to doing just that. But they will milk the Carbon Cow for every drop first.

If Nissan is willing to pull out of Europe closing one of three Leaf plants to protect jobs back in their homeland factories why will they not pull back from the USA as well to save some face with the people of Japan if the downsizing does not save Nissan? Per one report the downsizing of Nissan plans should be out by May.

Have you not read the trade and financial news about Nissan just since the start of 2020? If you will google the Nissan mess you may understand what the Youtubers are saying about Nissan.

My take is the the Nissan that I have known for 50 years having owning 6 Nissan vehicles with one being for 30 years is now GONE for good. The French thing just never went down well for some in Japan. How many more inside of Nissan are facing jail in Japan for enabling Carlos alleged crimes? The CEO did not make off with $91 million that Nissan is suing Carlos to recover without some deep inside help I would think. Why has Carlos sued Nissan for $15 million? Look that their public financial statements and notice the post Carlos era numbers.

Where were you in the mid 90's? Nissan was far far worse off then than they are now. They had both feet in bankruptcy closing the door when Renault stepped in to save them. How did they do it? or rather how did Ghosn do it? He did the same thing. Started cutting away the dead wood. So yeah, they need to shutter a few locations because they are under capacity. England is a special case in the land of Brexit. They did what a LOT of companies do; they overextended with a stale product line. The LEAF did not cause Nissan to fail. Nissan caused Nissan to fail.

But that is all fixable. Nissan did not fail due to lack of talent; they failed due to lack of direction. Kinda how it works when you throw your leader under the bus.

 

[GaleHawkins]

That is well, stretching it a bit. For crying out loud, even Chrysler/Fiat is still around and they are... well, anyway.

We can think Nissan will simply disintegrate into dust but that is so unlikely its laughable. Realize GM is still here. Remember when their stock was trading at 8 cents a share? On its way DOWN!

This is nothing but big business stalling tactics. They ALL know the gasser time is limited and EVs will have to be developed and ALL of them are well on their way to doing just that. But they will milk the Carbon Cow for every drop first.

If Nissan is willing to pull out of Europe closing one of three Leaf plants to protect jobs back in their homeland factories why will they not pull back from the USA as well to save some face with the people of Japan if the downsizing does not save Nissan? Per one report the downsizing of Nissan plans should be out by May.

Have you not read the trade and financial news about Nissan just since the start of 2020? If you will google the Nissan mess you may understand what the Youtubers are saying about Nissan.

My take is the the Nissan that I have known for 50 years having owning 6 Nissan vehicles with one being for 30 years is now GONE for good. The French thing just never went down well for some in Japan. How many more inside of Nissan are facing jail in Japan for enabling Carlos alleged crimes? The CEO did not make off with $91 million that Nissan is suing Carlos to recover without some deep inside help I would think. Why has Carlos sued Nissan for $15 million? Look that their public financial statements and notice the post Carlos era numbers.

Where were you in the mid 90's? Nissan was far far worse off then than they are now. They had both feet in bankruptcy closing the door when Renault stepped in to save them. How did they do it? or rather how did Ghosn do it? He did the same thing. Started cutting away the dead wood. So yeah, they need to shutter a few locations because they are under capacity. England is a special case in the land of Brexit. They did what a LOT of companies do; they overextended with a stale product line. The LEAF did not cause Nissan to fail. Nissan caused Nissan to fail.

But that is all fixable. Nissan did not fail due to lack of talent; they failed due to lack of direction. Kinda how it works when you throw your leader under the bus.

If Nissan had talent it would have vision. No Leaf means No Nissan. Just look at Tesla. They have tops in talent because they have vision starting at the top.

 

[danrjones]

Tesla has a mission.

What is Nissan's?

 

[GaleHawkins]

Tesla has a mission.

What is Nissan's?

Kicking the French out is the only mission that seems to be getting management attention today.

 

[danrjones]

I don't know if Ghosn is a criminal or not, and I'll let someone else debate that. The Leaf has a few problems, like any EV. None are perfect. But it seems like the vision we have seen so far of the Ariya is to compete with the Mach E and the model Y. That's great if you have 50k. Even the Mach E does not have me all that excited. Lets say the top range model gets 320 EPA miles. Knock that down by my 66% rule I've come up with for my usage cases and it means just over 200 real usable miles. Now I don't like going below 20% so really its 168 miles. That's better than my Leaf, but its no ICE killer for the open roads. For a city car, its overkill. Heck for what I'm using my Leaf for in town, ANY EV would meet my needs. And for what I want to do with my future EV (and replace my outback), NONE of the EVs will work when price is factored in.

But TESLA knows where's its going. I don't know about the rest. I don't really want to see any of them go under, those are people's jobs and lives. But I get the feeling that the Ariya and the Mach E are more token cars to "prove" they can compete with TESLA, but by no means actually start converting to EVs. VW is a little better but seems to be having a lot of software issues. Car companies are more like middle men, managing huge supply chains of their ICE parts. The are not technology and software companies, and its showing for VW.

 

[GaleHawkins]

https://english.kyodonews.net/news...24-bil-yen-fine-over-ghosn-pay-scandal.html

"Japan's financial regulators said Friday they ordered Nissan Motor Co. to pay 2.42 billion yen ($22 million) in fines for underreporting remuneration of former Chairman Carlos Ghosn and other executives for years."

If Nissan had not triggered the $22 million dollar fine they could replaced a lot of bad Leaf batteries perhaps. Wonder if the insiders at Nissan that helped pull off this stuff are expecting their own arrest?

https://japantoday.com/category/cr...ay-2.4-bil.-yen-fine-over-ghosn-pay-scandal

This is the same story but has some reader comments at the end.