Nissan corporate news

[LeftieBiker]

I was just kidding. Reading all of these news stories, though, it wouldn't be that hard to conflate the wrong ones, and conclude that everybody there wants him back in Japan - some to hang him and some to force him to save Nissan again - or maybe both, albeit in the opposite order, for optimum results.

 

[GaleHawkins]

One news article from 30 days ago Carlo's lawyer reported he said Nissan will be in bankruptcy court in 2022.

I'm very thankful I picked up my leaf with the new battery pack on 12 Feb 2020 after hauling it to a Nissan Leaf service center 30 Dec 2019.

Based on what was just reported that the current CEO told dealership owners we may have a more clear picture in just the next 90 days.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

One news article from 30 days ago Carlo's lawyer reported he said Nissan will be in bankruptcy court in 2022.

Just for kicks, I went back to the first post in this thread. Oh how things have changed in the past 5 years. One more reason I'm glad I decided on a Bolt over the Plus to replace my aging (i.e. degrading) 2012 Leaf.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

We test drove a Bolt in 2018. I wanted it to be a good fit, but (for our family) no one was thrilled.

My wife particularly hated the interior styling.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I also test drove one, and the Bolt is a car for a younger person - or one with an Iron Ass.

 

[danrjones]

It is suppose to get a big makeover for 2021. So if that actually happens, the Bolt could have more range, newer interior, more legroom, and Batteries with a superior BMS and thermal system.

I had to look it up because it seemed impossible, but sure enough it has more legroom that the Leaf. I think its because Nissan went more traditional with the hood. The hood on many vehicles is 4-5 feet of wasted space. Maybe the Bolt has a smaller trunk too, not sure.

The point is that given the prices I've seen Bolt's for, with a new interior and good seats and adaptive cruise, I'd probably take the bolt over the Leaf.
That's a lot of speculation though.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The Bolt has much less cargo room than the Leaf with all seats in use. With all passenger seats folded, it's close to having the same cargo space.

 

[webeleafowners]

The Bolt has much less cargo room than the Leaf with all seats in use. With all passenger seats folded, it's close to having the same cargo space.

Yep. Getting picked up at an airport by someone with a Bolt is not...practical. 4 Adults, two with luggage is just a bad situation. Trust me.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

And for us with 3 teenagers and many Costco runs, the cargo was key. Yes, the 3 kids foght in the back, but hey at least you are not paying for gas.

The BMS on a day to day basis in the Midwest is of little consequence, but every bit of extra range does help on trips.

 

[cwerdna]

We test drove a Bolt in 2018. I wanted it to be a good fit, but (for our family) no one was thrilled.

My wife particularly hated the interior styling.

I hear you about the interior styling of Bolt. That and the econobox grade of interior bits (mostly hard plastics all over and not even fabric/felt on the door panels) is something that could really use improvement. Even my gen 1 Leaf is significantly better in this department. As I mentioned at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=551296#p551296, even the dead Chevy Cruze and gen 2 Volts have better quality interiors.

 

[LeftieBiker]

GM obviously didn't want the Bolt to be comfortable enough to steal buyers from the non-EV driving public.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Bolt has its benefits but the latest 2020 versions has the LEAF improving faster.

Bolt got more range but didn't increase DC speed; a MAJOR misstep.

LEAF still has unprotected pack but prelim ( realize although have had warm days, have not done Summer yet) results shows it is MUCH harder to heat up the pack. With 40 kwh; it was easy to hit 110º or more even in Winter. I have not attained that level in the E Plus yet. More range simply means less charging need. Would need to be over 400 miles (my daily driving limit) at least.


Bolt still has most legroom of any EV in its class but cargo space suffers. A great 2 passenger car. But short wheelbase does not lend to a better ride. In my various test drives of the Bolt (up to 6 now) the car seems less rooted to the road. I suspect that is a poor description of my evaluation but really can't pinpoint the issue. Maybe its just the LEAF seems so "grounded?"

FYI; will have to look for the pix but a Bolter I know customized his interior and did a GREAT job on it. So if that cheap plasticity is an issue; its a rather easy fix.

I don't have details on 2020 tech adds on Bolt but they still are lagging not only the LEAF but the entire segment.

 

[danrjones]

So my choice is between the Leaf, that can't get me to the airport, and the Bolt, which can't get my luggage to the airport...
That sounds like a great set of options. :lol:

I choose the longer range and take my luggage, leave my wife and kid behind.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So my choice is between the Leaf, that can't get me to the airport, and the Bolt, which can't get my luggage to the airport...
That sounds like a great set of options. :lol:

I choose the longer range and take my luggage, leave my wife and kid behind.

Your solution may be Bolt + roof-mounted cargo pod, or Bolt + hitch + cargo trailer. A Leaf ePlus won't do it...?

 

[danrjones]

So my choice is between the Leaf, that can't get me to the airport, and the Bolt, which can't get my luggage to the airport...
That sounds like a great set of options. :lol:

I choose the longer range and take my luggage, leave my wife and kid behind.

Your solution may be Bolt + roof-mounted cargo pod, or Bolt + hitch + cargo trailer. A Leaf ePlus won't do it...?

A leaf plus might. But that defeats the excuse to go on travel without my wife!

Seriously though, I admit my situation is unique. I'm in a EV friendly-ish state but in the portion of it ruled by open space, heat and conservative thinking. I bought my 2018 leaf expecting it to never leave town.

ABRP suggests a plus could just make it to LAX, but the Bolt makes it easier. However the real interest for me is not the airport, its being able to go hiking in the Sierra's -> which I do often. Getting to those trail heads and back to my house is easy in my outback (paved roads, simply range issue), and I look forward to the day an EV can do it. I made the point in another thread that EVENTUALLY an affordable mass market EV needs to fit that role. A outback-rav4-crv like EV that gets 400-500 miles on a charge and starts 25k. Yes, I know the tech isn't there yet. I have played with ABRP and the only model it has in it that almost equals my ICE outback in range in the 500 mile Alpha model for the cybertruck. For 69K.

 

[GRA]

So my choice is between the Leaf, that can't get me to the airport, and the Bolt, which can't get my luggage to the airport...
That sounds like a great set of options. :lol:

I choose the longer range and take my luggage, leave my wife and kid behind.

Your solution may be Bolt + roof-mounted cargo pod, or Bolt + hitch + cargo trailer. A Leaf ePlus won't do it...?

A leaf plus might. But that defeats the excuse to go on travel without my wife!

Seriously though, I admit my situation is unique. I'm in a EV friendly-ish state but in the portion of it ruled by open space, heat and conservative thinking. I bought my 2018 leaf expecting it to never leave town.

ABRP suggests a plus could just make it to LAX, but the Bolt makes it easier. However the real interest for me is not the airport, its being able to go hiking in the Sierra's -> which I do often. Getting to those trail heads and back to my house is easy in my outback (paved roads, simply range issue), and I look forward to the day an EV can do it. I made the point in another thread that EVENTUALLY an affordable mass market EV needs to fit that role. A outback-rav4-crv like EV that gets 400-500 miles on a charge and starts 25k. Yes, I know the tech isn't there yet. I have played with ABRP and the only model it has in it that almost equals my ICE outback in range in the 500 mile Alpha model for the cybertruck. For 69K.

Yes, we're on the same page (Forester here) as far as what's needed re price and capability for the mass market BEV. I don't expect to see that before 2025 at the earliest, but more likely closer to 2030. I expect we'll only see the first sub-$40k 300+ mile BEV in two or three years, so that's an indication of how far we have to go.

The one thing I'd stress is that for me it's range over the long-term that matters. My now 17-y.o Forester can still go at least 400 miles + at least a 30 mile reserve in anything but poor conditions, the same as it could when new. That allows me to easily go 4-6 hours between stops that I choose to make, and also allows me to do the typical weekend ca. 400 mile trip to the Sierra and back un-refueled if I wish (although I usually don't, because gas is considerably cheaper in the central valley than locally, so I normally fill up there both O/B and returning). But a 400 mile (total when new) BEV, with the best capacity warranty extant (70% for 8 years) is only guaranteed for 280 miles. 80% of that is only 224 miles. With allowances for a reserve, headwinds, climbs and HVAC use, not to mention the rural 75 and 80 mph speed limits in all western states outside of California and Oregon, real range is a lot less. Assuming a 15% reserve (33 miles), I'd be down to just 191 miles max before any other allowances, and until the density of rural QCs increases to something approaching that of gas stations, a ca. 30 mile reserve is totally inadequate.

I'd have to look it up, but my Forester cost me something like $24,344 OTD, i.e. incl. tax, license and the whole shebang. As the Forester/RAV4/CR-V have all grown larger than I need, I'd be looking at something like an Impreza 5-door (don't need the Crosstrek) nowadays, as it's about an inch longer than my Forester. Base MSRP? $19,195. Unless gas prices rise into the stratosphere and stay there, that sort of thing is what BEVs have to compete against.

 

[danrjones]

Exactly right on the math. I've started taking the EPA range on EVs and multiplying it by 66%. OR using ABRP with the same round trip but comparing EV to EV, is also interesting.

What could be more helpful is if the EPA gave seperate city and highway ranges, like they do for efficiency, and moved their highway testing to a higher speed.

My holy grail is an EV that can go from my house to mammoth and back on a single charge. My outback does. I know we have awhile to go before we get that.

 

[GRA]

Exactly right on the math. I've started taking the EPA range on EVs and multiplying it by 66%. OR using ABRP with the same round trip but comparing EV to EV, is also interesting.

What could be more helpful is if the EPA gave seperate city and highway ranges, like they do for efficiency, and moved their highway testing to a higher speed.

My holy grail is an EV that can go from my house to mammoth and back on a single charge. My outback does. I know we have awhile to go before we get that.

They do, but it's often hard to find. For example, the pre-2020 Bolt was rated at 217 miles Hwy compared to 238 Combined (forget what the city range was, but it was more than that).

For me, minimum acceptable range for a BEV is my place in the Bay Area i.e. sea level, the 207 miles to Lee Vining over Tioga Pass (9,941') in any conditions I'd encounter, for the life of the vehicle. That's only half the range I have in my ICE now, so what I want is to be able to do that plus continue on to Lone Pine (332 miles total) without recharging, also for the life of the vehicle; anything beyond that is gravy. That's what it would take for me to fully replace an ICE with a BEV. Owing to their faster re-fueling, less range reduction in cold weather and more limited degradation, an FCEV could have less range and still work, given enough filling stations - home to Lee Vining would be adequate. But their costs are mainly in the stack, not energy storage, so adding more range is much less of a cost issue for them. I've kind of come to the conclusion that reducing or eliminating battery degradation may be more important than significantly increased range, although both are obviously wanted.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Batteries, batteries and batteries has to be the most critical thing for Nissan and others at the corporate level but it does not seem to be reality other than the rocket science guy.

I am new to EV's and got the 2016 Leaf SL with a dying battery pack 5 months ago to force me to learn about EV's after realizing last summer it would be mainly EV's 20 years down the road. I am now 69 with a 22 old year son and daughter so I am concerned about the future. I have been driving Nissan vehicles for 47 years but the Leaf is the first on without a gas tank.

It boggles my mind other than Elon Musk corporations have been slow to realize the battery packs are the weak link retarding the EV market. Had Henry Ford outsourced the gas engine development there would not be vehicles labelled FORD out there today. The EV battery pack has the same role of the ICE 100 years ago. EV motors were around before the ICE so they are not the weak link but the storage to drive the EV motor is critical.

The money and commitment needed to make EV's is huge. Nissan brought batteries in-house which was a good thing but they had no overt desire to follow through. The 2015 24 kWh was was/is solid technology. Had Nissan bite the bullet and replaced the prior years with failed batteries with the 2015 most 2011+ Leafs would be driving billboards for the Ariya EV but the inverse is reality today.

At the lower level I think Nissan is a great group of people. At the top there seems to have been a lot of self serving people and that may have had a trickle down effect over the years. I truly expect the Ariya is well beyond a concept EV. I am not sold that Nissan USA may not be strong enough to bring it to the market when it is ready. I expect the Ariya will see the light of day at least for the right hand markets and will be shipped from Japan.

When sales start to implode like it has world wide for Nissan it is often too late to save much even in a company that still has vision at the top. That is not the case today because they do not know who next is going to be arrested. For the last two CEO's to have done what they are accused of could have only happened with inside enablers.

I like the new CEO but he is already telling the dealers he will lose his job if the dealerships do not get back to profitability yesterday. The are just going to say had top management managed correctly they would be profitable today. With 30% of dealerships losing money and another 10% at break even that means 50% of USA dealerships may need to be closed. Sadly it takes more cash to down size a company than to up-size a company short of declaring bankruptcy which just opens up more cans of worms.

Sadly Nissan is just the tip of the iceberg I expect. As the weaker corporations merge the number of players will continue to decrease then the weakest of the remaining ones will be removed from the market place. We can watch the way Nissan downsides in Europe and if they keep replacing dying battery packs. The need to root out the French may kill the company but the Nissan of the days before Renault are gone forever regardless of what happens in the next 24 months.

 

[danrjones]

At fullycharged live, in one of the panels, 3 of the 4 YouTubers predicted that most if not all of the current main stream makers will be unable to survive the switch to EVs. It was harsh but they might be right.

Now I'm curious about the EPA sticker so I'm looking for my window sticker. I just remember a little car with 150 under it.