New 2015 SV charge / wiring questions

[DoobeeDude]

So I just drove my new 2015 SV home (with the 6.6kW and the quick charge port) and wanted to see if my charger plans make sense.
I have a 45 mile round trip daily commute. Fortunately, parking is covered at both ends (meaning less strain from HVAC). So I really don't have any range anxiety, with a new battery and all.

Nonetheless, I do think I would rather be able to take advantage of the 220V charging, so I'm having a 220V line run to my garage. I'm thinking I will just do the EVSE upgrade to my level 1 charger. Even though this is a lease, I suspect that the difference either won't be noticed, or will be easy enough to worry about in three years. Maybe this is my first area of concern... Do I really need two EVSE cords? I can't see why I need to lug one around in the car. The trickle is so slow (in an emergency), that I would just drive to a regular charging station (where I don't need a cord anyway). Anything I'm missing here? Is the risk at the end of the lease greater than I imagine?

Second point is about the amperage on the line being run to the garage. I believe I have an existing 40 amp line for a hot tub outlet (not being used), with GFCI at the breaker box. This would be the easiest option to use for the electrician. I'm all in favor of being future proof, but it seems like a line that supports more than 40 amps at this point is a bit of overkill. I've read most everything here, so I know this has been a common point of discussion. Is there something I'm missing? Is the next Tesla really going to break the 40amp mark for home charging? IF so.. wow.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw a couple questions out for the group before I pull the trigger. I should be able to survive on trickle charge for a few weeks anyway.

 

[LeftieBiker]

First, the unit you plug into the car isn't the charger - that's built into the car. The cable-with-box is the EVSE (obscure acronym) or 'charging cable' or, if stationary, "charging station." Now, about the 40 amp line. That's actually ideal, especially if unused, because you only want a line's capacity 80% utilized at most while charging for hours. Install a 30 amp outlet for your EVSE upgrade and you're good to go, with the right plug on the EVSE. There is no real harm in drawing no more than 27 amps from a 40 amp line, as a short will still make the breaker trip. If it were a 50 amp breaker, you'd probably want a smaller one for that outlet.

 

[AndyGT02]

You're right, the trickle charge is often too slow to be of much use in an emergency. However, I find mine useful if I'm staying overnight at a friend's house or vacationing at a rental.

 

[TimLee]

... I can't see why I need to lug one around in the car. ...

In 51 months, I have only used the 120V emergency / convenience use EVSE three times.
Once early on to test it.
Once when the L2 Blink was on the blink.
And once when left LEAF running in driveway and it discharged to high voltage disconnect.

Some people may have different usage.
But for most the infrequent use on 120V is best done with just the EVSEupgrade and adapter cord.

Note though the EVSEupgrade for 2015 does not charge at the fastest rate your 6.6 kW from the wall on board charger can do. It can do 27.5 amps.
The 2015 upgrade only does 16 amps.

If you have a 40 amp breaker, may be better to get L2 capable of that.
Yes most of the time you don't need the speed difference.
But will be convenient when you do.

 

[DoobeeDude]

... I can't see why I need to lug one around in the car. ...

Note though the EVSEupgrade for 2015 does not charge at the fastest rate your 6.6 kW from the wall on board charger can do. It can do 27.5 amps.
The 2015 upgrade only does 16 amps.

Hey... Thanks. I had failed to notice that! That's a bummer. I should have noticed that before, except that they specify a 30 amp line requirement. I suppose that's just to build in a cushion.

I'll have to look at some other options now if I do want the higher speed charging.

 

[minispeed]

So I'm guessing you plan on getting a Tesla next? If you're going to get a used Model S then the 2 options for home charging at max speeds are a 50 amp breaker with 40 amp EVSE (or stock Tesla unit) for the 10kW charger. If you have dual chargers it would be a 100 amp breaker with the 80 amp Tesla EVSE which is called the High Power Wall Charger (still an EVSE not a charger).

There is slim to no chance of the model iii being offered with anything more than the 20kW dual charger and a good chance that the base model will have something smaller than the base S's 10kW. The model iii should get long range from being more efficient than the model S is so they can drop the rate of the stock charger and keep charge times similar to the model S.

You mentioned it would be easiest to use the 40 amp breaker that's already there but are you also planning on using the same wires or are they run in a way that would make that impossible? If you're going to run new wires you can run a wire that is capable of handling a higher load and for now use it on the existing 40 amp breaker and then if you do get a car with a higher charge rate then you can later upgrade the breaker. If you know that will happen eventually it's a pretty small cost to just upgrade the breaker now. You can easily run the leaf off a 50 amp breaker.

If you are going to get a Tesla, assuming they give the same unit with a model iii that they give with the S then you really don't need an EVSE as that unit will handle 10kW. If they give a different unit I think it's safe to say it will handle whatever the stock model iii charger is set to. If that's the plan do make sure that your electrician puts in the appropriate plug that the stock Tesla unit can plug into. Even if you buy a hard wired EVSE the electrician can wire up a plug so that if you replace it with a stock Tesla unit you just unplug it.

If you don't care about saving a few hundred bucks and want it as simple as possible to last a long time I'd say run a 50 amp breaker/line with an EVSE capable of 40 amps like the clipper creek that will do 9.7kW.

If you want the best value now I'd still say go with the clipper creek, $379 for 15 amps or $479 for 20 amps which is what I have. It's quick enough to handle my 90 miles a day commute plus extra around town for 24k miles in the last year. The EVSE upgrade has the potential to save you $100 (maybe less with all the shipping and the core cost of a loaner unit) and the potential to be a lease trade in problem. The other units if you don't need them when you upgrade to a car you can probably sell for at least $100.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/featured-products/

If it's really cold where you are and want less battery % drop when preheating then go for the full 6.6kW capable EVSE, that's my only regret with the 20amp unit.

 

[DoobeeDude]

Thanks, Minispeed.

I think you hit all of the highlights -- and, yes, the Tesla is somewhere floating in the back of my mind!

I'll definitely have to run new wires, so I'm going to ask for them to be upgraded to 60 amp. It know it's going to cost more than it should for the upgrade because my electrician has already says he has a reel of the 40 amp stuff. Making him buy more inventory will cost more than it should.

Good advice on the full 6.6kwh capable EVSE -- I will look in to Clipper Creek.

I have to say -- it would seem that even someone at 3.3Kwh should not suffer at loss of charge with full HVAC preheating. I mean -- it's hard to picture the heater drawing more than 3,300 Watts. At least I'm hoping it doesn't -- maybe the 2015SV with the heat pump would be more efficient.

 

[Nubo]

After turning in our 2012, I considered that I'd never needed the L1 EVSE for emergency charging. And the prospect of charging at 4 miles per hour in an "emergency", is not particularly comforting. I think I'd call for a tow instead. So with our 2015 the L1 charger sits in the garage awaiting the off-chance that we'd want to use it when visiting someone. I did that exactly once with the 2012. I'm glad for the extra trunk space.

As far as circuit capacity, I think a lot of the concerns about "future proofing" are overblown. There's nothing that mandates you need charge as fast as the vehicle can possibly take it. What is more important is whether a certain rate fits in with your driving requirements. That is miles-driven per day VS miles-added during the available charging window. In general, the larger the pack, the more tractable a lower charge rate becomes.

My conclusion is that charge speed is more important when charging on the road then at home.

 

[CharlesinGA]

Carry that #8 wire, 40 amp circuit to the garage, go on the internet to http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-EV-Ch...-Mount-with-18-ft-Cord-EVDSWGH-CP01/205808537 and for $399 plus sales tax, with free shipping, order one of these...........................

Install it and connect the circuit to it (hardwire connection, the unit is not rated for plug and cord), Swap that expensive GFCI double pole breaker for a regular double pole 40 amp (the EVSE has GFCI circuitry built into it, you don't need the GFCI breaker and it may trip when you least expect it to, at least the EVSE GFCI circuit is self resetting).

You will be as happy as a pig in slop, knowing that you are getting FULL use of the 6.6Kw charger built into your LEAF.

Charles

 

[DoobeeDude]

I saw that GE model last week and it was out of stock.

Back in stock!!! Yay. Might just pull the trigger.

 

[TimLee]

Does the GE EVSE still fry 2011 and 2012 chargers if they haven't had the P3227 software change?

 

[BakoDuck]

+1 on the GE charger from Home Depot. Works great. I use it to charge my 2015 SV and it is an inexpensive functional level 2 charger.

 

[davewill]

Future proofing is for the birds. If you've got an existing 40a circuit, have the electrician put a 14-50 (if 4 wires) or 6-50 (if 3 wires) in and buy a 30a EVSE to plug into it. I'm charging my RAV4EV (same charging setup as Tesla Model S) on a 30a EVSE and for home charging, I really don't need anything more. The car is always fully charged long before morning comes...and that's with waiting until midnight to start so I get super off-peak rates. Another 10a wouldn't be enough improvement to be worth spending the money on.

 

[DoobeeDude]

UPDATE:

Thanks for all the good advice. I went ahead and ordered the GE unit from Home Depot once I saw it was back in stock.

However, last week I approached the manager of my company garage about charging stations. I'm the only plug-in owner in the whole garage. No EVSE is forthcoming from them, but the manager did point out all the high quality (dedicated 20 AMP GFCI) outlets around the garage and said I should feel welcome to trickle charge from them as long as I like.

For my 40 mile round trip commute, this is the only source of charging I need in mild weather. I imagine in the winter I'll have to top off the charge at home (probably run a deficit until the end of the week). I would have appreciated the convenience of level 2 at home, but now I'll save even more money by charging at work, so I can't justify the additional expense of a $400 EVSE plus installation. It's going back to Home Depot today.

 

[AlanSqB]

I have a feeling you'll find having a good EVSE at home will greatly improve your satisfaction with the LEAF. However, the availability of 120V 20A outlets in the work garage does potentially give you another reason to go with EVSEupgrade. They can be set to charge at 16A on a 120V circuit, where the stock unit will only do 12A. Not a huge difference, but it could be the difference between getting a full charge each day and not. It would also give you the option to just add an inexpensive 240V outlet at home and use the same cable.

 

[DoobeeDude]

Good point. So at 16amps I would be grabbng 33% more power per hour--maybe even more due to a small increase inefficiency at the higher amperage. That would be tempting.

But would it pay for itself? Hmmmm. Even if I'm paying myself for 8 hours charging per week (due to reduced efficiency of the trickle charge at work) that is about 8hrs x 12 amps x 120 volts = 11.5kwh @ 13 cents = $1.50 per week. I only work 47 weeks per year, so about $70 per year or $210 over my three year lease.

The 8 hour figure is highly subjective and could rise much higher in winter. Right now it's an overestimate, but temps are in the 70s and I have a new battery. When the temp inside my garage at work is 10-20F, I might freel differently.

It's worth considering.

Any thoughts on my math or estimates?

Another way to calculate the savings would be to assume that the situation right now (I can fully recharge at work) is very temporary and generally won't be true, even at 16 amps.

In that case, I would draw 33% more Kwh everyday at 16 amps, right? (or more due to efficiency increases).

So today, I charge for 9 hours x 12 amps x 120 volts = 12.96kwh
Or I could get 9 hours x 16 amps x 120 volts = 17.28kwh
for a net increase of 4.32 kwh @ $0.13 / hour = .56 cents per day x 47 weeks x 5 days = $132 per year.

Lots of assumptions here, of course, but it could be close enough to justify the expense, I think.