supernoman
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2010
- Messages
- 43
SDR-00035 order from Kearny Mesa Mossy (Leon). RAQ 10/1/10. Estimated May delivery.
Glacier Pearl.
I'm mad at Walter.
Glacier Pearl.
I'm mad at Walter.
GroundLoop said:This whole "scramble the orders and ship them all by May" has the potential to go horribly wrong.
Asking around locally, I'm starting to get the impression that Jan/Feb orders are actually getting Priority in general, and these are not isolated cases. I am at a loss for any explanation.
I am thinking that while it's right to be concerned, I think it's too early to be able to say definitely that 2011 orders are getting ahead of 2010 orders. There's already been at least one case of a Jan order getting moved to May from April - I believe that we will see most of these get moved to May as many of us current May deliveries were shifted from April to May.GroundLoop said:If these Jan/Feb orders arrive before my October order, and there's a major pause in delivery due to the horrific disaster, and the CA fund is tapped out, I don't think Nissan is correctly estimating the backlash and ill-will that will result from failing to honor the "order order".
This whole "scramble the orders and ship them all by May" has the potential to go horribly wrong.
Asking around locally, I'm starting to get the impression that Jan/Feb orders are actually getting Priority in general, and these are not isolated cases. I am at a loss for any explanation.
I disagree. For a lot of people the rebate is a deciding factor in whether or not they can purchase the car - and that is exactly why the program exists. That is a big reason that CA is getting about 70% of total deliveries at this point in time. Given that the rebate funds are handed out first come first served (and CCSE is very good at doing this) - it seems reasonable that Nissan should deliver cars in first come first served order to the best of their ability.thankyouOB said:The idea that you can complain about not getting it, or blame Nissan, seems very wrong to me.
Except your place and vehicle is probably already assigned. So if everyone moves forward to reflect an open car Nissan would have to reassign 500+ cars to different people to keep the order. Not going to happen.GroundLoop said:I'm not buying the "selected orphan spots" theory either. All the options are Port-installed, so you have three trim levels and some colors. I have what is likely the most common configuration in California: Blue eTec. If such an orphan opened up, why would they reach into the 2011 orders to fill it? Makes no sense.
I am holding them responsible for doing what they said they would do--deliver cars in the order of reservations that were received. Are you saying that Nissan is not aware of the EV incentives that exist in CA, or the expectations of people who have been waiting a year for their cars now, and are suddenly "independently" deciding to conform to some other production/delivery scheme? Not likely, and it would be a very poor marketing move to ignore the promises made to people like me who had problems in ordering, due to dashboard/software problems, AV waivers, EVP assessments, etc., that these delays would not affect their delivery dates. To have people who reserved and ordered 3-4 months later receive their cars before I do will color my perception of their corporate competence and ethics regardless of whether it means I miss the CA rebate or not.thankyouOB said:The CA rebate is a CA program.
Nissan is handling its process independent of that. I dont see how you can hold Nissan responsible for how it handles its internal process because there is some external factor that it is not responsible for.
This is nothing more than a cavalier "greener than thou" red herring argument.If no rebate is a deal breaker, then maybe you can't afford it, or more likely you don't place a high enough value on it and the contribution it makes to a cleaner environment.
thankyouOB said:The CA rebate is a CA program.
Nissan is handling its process independent of that.
I dont see how you can hold Nissan responsible for how it handles its internal process because there is some external factor that it is not responsible for.
As to the 5k being the reason you can afford the car; that is a personal decision about how to allocate your available funds and spending. If no rebate is a deal breaker, then maybe you can't afford it, or more likely you don't place a high enough value on it and the contribution it makes to a cleaner environment.
Boomer23 said:thankyouOB said:The CA rebate is a CA program.
Nissan is handling its process independent of that.
I dont see how you can hold Nissan responsible for how it handles its internal process because there is some external factor that it is not responsible for.
As to the 5k being the reason you can afford the car; that is a personal decision about how to allocate your available funds and spending. If no rebate is a deal breaker, then maybe you can't afford it, or more likely you don't place a high enough value on it and the contribution it makes to a cleaner environment.
If you've been reading regularly, you'll know that Nissan delayed LEAF shipments outside of Japan in favor of domestic deliveries to respond to the early cancellation of a Japanese rebate program. This shows that Nissan can and does adjust its shipment schedule where rebate programs are involved. All of the EV manufacturers are acutely aware of the rebate programs. In fact, they lobbied for the adoption of these programs. Without the rebates, EV adoption will be slower and in fact may die on the vine after early adopters like us have their cars.
Many buyers made the decision to buy because of the incentive of the California rebate as well as the Federal rebate. For some people it is a perfectly reasonable decision to cancel a LEAF order if the full $5k is not available. I say that with the full awareness that the CCSE folks will maintain a rebate reservation waiting list, and I'm grateful for their level of organization and commitment to fair sequencing of the rebates. I don't RECOMMEND the cancellation of orders, since there will be a waiting list and there still MAY be releases of future funding, but I understand that the $5k may make all the difference to many families, and waiting lists put you in the long term position of waiting and hoping for a rebate for many more months after buying or leasing the car.
to thankyouOB, I say with respect that your opinion is likely based on your own level of financial security and the fact that you have an enviable April delivery date despite reserving your LEAF a month after some others who have "month of May" delivery advisories. Your stated opinion, I'm afraid, reminds me of the attitude I've seen on BMW forums of "If you're worried about the cost of replacement tires for a BMW, maybe you can't really afford to own one." It sounds pretty elitist.
I second what ttweed and Boomer23 are saying!!!!! If i missed out on the rebate because people that ordered ahead of my order on April 20, 2010 depleted the funds that is fair, but not people that ordered after me on April 20th and in 2011 and are getting their car in April. Just like Boomer23 I had a Amex issue and lost 5 hours where Nissan was not able to process my order, I should have been a Feb / March delivery. I know that certain people at Nissan are reading our forum, please deliver what you promised multiple times to us on the 600+ cars that are in transit.
thankyouOB said:Nissan is not responsible for the CA rebate program.
I'm with GroundLoop. I don't understand this argument. Anyone who does not yet have a VIN assigned could be slipped into the canceled production spot with a few keystrokes on a computer, it seems to me. Why do you think "reassigning" 500+ cars would be necessary? Until a customer is matched with a VIN, there is no "assignment," and until the chassis moves down the line and is configured and painted, it could be anybody's model. I'm just not following this "front row ticket" analogy--it doesn't seem to apply well in this situation. You said "Just as if a block of front row tickets comes available the box office does not try to move everyone a few seats forward. They just sell the tickets to the next one at the window..." The problem with that as I see it is that all of us without a VIN assigned are still standing at the ticket window-- none of us have been seated yet. Maybe I don't understand the Nissan production process thoroughly, but I don't see how it would be that tough to have an "orphaned" order go to the next person in line who ordered that model/color and who's car was not yet in production.smkettner said:Except your place and vehicle is probably already assigned. So if everyone moves forward to reflect an open car Nissan would have to reassign 500+ cars to different people to keep the order. Not going to happen.GroundLoop said:I'm not buying the "selected orphan spots" theory either. All the options are Port-installed, so you have three trim levels and some colors. I have what is likely the most common configuration in California: Blue eTec. If such an orphan opened up, why would they reach into the 2011 orders to fill it? Makes no sense.
Just because CW is not open yet displaying your VIN does not mean your car is not running down the line with a VIN or production number or even already in transit. Just because your VIN from CW comes alive as the car unloads in the USA does not mean you were just then assigned the car. I think your spot in line was decided when you have the Month assigned a full 6 to 8 weeks before you are allowed to see the VIN. My Month was assigned 5 weeks ago and I assume I have a VIN even though CW is not open to display it. If I was to cancel my order today my car and VIN would be given at the next round of assignments, not to someone that already has a VIN and build date. If my car was reassigned to the next person then all 600 cars on that ship in transit would need to also be reassigned to keep them in order.ttweed said:I'm with GroundLoop. I don't understand this argument. Anyone who does not yet have a VIN assigned could be slipped into the canceled production spot with a few keystrokes on a computer, it seems to me. Why do you think "reassigning" 500+ cars would be necessary? Until a customer is matched with a VIN, there is no "assignment," and until the chassis moves down the line and is configured and painted, it could be anybody's model. I'm just not following this "front row ticket" analogy--it doesn't seem to apply well in this situation. You said "Just as if a block of front row tickets comes available the box office does not try to move everyone a few seats forward. They just sell the tickets to the next one at the window..." The problem with that as I see it is that all of us without a VIN assigned are still standing at the ticket window-- none of us have been seated yet. Maybe I don't understand the Nissan production process thoroughly, but I don't see how it would be that tough to have an "orphaned" order go to the next person in line who ordered that model/color and who's car was not yet in production. TTsmkettner said:Except your place and vehicle is probably already assigned. So if everyone moves forward to reflect an open car Nissan would have to reassign 500+ cars to different people to keep the order. Not going to happen.GroundLoop said:I'm not buying the "selected orphan spots" theory either. All the options are Port-installed, so you have three trim levels and some colors. I have what is likely the most common configuration in California: Blue eTec. If such an orphan opened up, why would they reach into the 2011 orders to fill it? Makes no sense.
Enter your email address to join: