LEAF to get 6.6kW charger in 2013

[TimLee]

For me and the rest of mainstream, the LEAF would not be a "second car". It's a first car.

I second this opinion. For me and most households that have two vehicles, the Leaf is the FIRST car. Drives the most miles. Limited mileage on my Nissan Altima 4 cylinder SECOND car.

With roll out of the DCFCs, I drove the Leaf 105 miles on Sunday to a funeral in Delano, TN. Did DCFC twice at Cracker Barrel in Cleveland, TN.

And with only slight delay for DCFC in Athens, I could take it to Knoxville to visit my mom!!

 

[N952JL]

For BEV's to become main stream there must be a way to go 300 miles in six to seven hours. If it doesn't it will forever be the second town car. And those families with only one car will go with and ICE.

I drive a big V8 sedan that gets 17MPG. My commute is 53 miles per day. I also own my own business that involves around 50 miles per day on the weekends with frequent stops, mostly hard city driving. I think my driving represents more than what the main stream drives. It's over 15,000 miles per year. I'll drive over 70 miles in one day maybe once a month at most. Over 200 miles once or twice a year.

For me and the rest of mainstream, the LEAF would not be a "second car". It's a first car. The second car would be the gas guzzler. People just need to accept range and charging limitations and realize that even those limitations are greater than 95% of their requirements.

At this point, I'm willing to sacrifice the liberty of having extended range in exchange for getting off of my addiction to costly and bloody foreign oil.

I disagree. I live in middle Georgia. Every three day weekend people like to go to the beach or mountains. Can't do ether as no range. Go to one of the three theme parks in the state, can't no range. Driving an hr or two to spend the weekend is not unusual here, can't no range.

I grant that the adv number of miles per year is about 15,000. But adv person might drive 200 miles/week going to work. (I believe they stated that 95% of Americans drive less than 40 miles to and from work day) At 50 work weeks a year that is only 10,000 miles year. The other 5,000 miles are weekend get aways. Can't in the Leaf no range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the car and I only drive 700 miles a month. But I can't even drive to the Lake for a day on the water because I wouldn't have enough range for the round trip. Now if my destination was only 75 miles or so, and I could spend six hours to recharge, and they had a 220 for charging. Right now that's a lot of ifs.

I have two cars, but I can see a time in the future when I won't need but one, and unless the range improves I will not be able to use an electric car. That's a shame as I feel the Electric vehicle is much better than an ICE.

 

[N952JL]

Oh, and one more thought. I too would love to have energy independence. All this Oil is killing us. The Leaf is the only car I drive 95% of the time. That is one reason why I like the idea of an Extended Range Trailer. The 5% of the time you need the extra range, just hook up the trailer and go. The other 95% of the time it stays parked. It would be much more efficient.

But I am banking that within five years, the battery pack will last 210 to 300 miles and at the same price point as today.

 

[jb2leaf]

Oh, and one more thought. I too would love to have energy independence. All this Oil is killing us. The Leaf is the only car I drive 95% of the time. That is one reason why I like the idea of an Extended Range Trailer. The 5% of the time you need the extra range, just hook up the trailer and go. The other 95% of the time it stays parked. It would be much more efficient.

But I am banking that within five years, the battery pack will last 210 to 300 miles and at the same price point as today.

What is an Extended Range Trailer? :?

 

[s2kysk]

Trailer with generator. Charge your battery as you drive. Similar idea as chevy volt but externalized the ice to trailer.

 

[jb2leaf]

Trailer with generator. Charge your battery as you drive. Similar idea as chevy volt but externalized the ice to trailer.

Where do I sign up...Ha!
Maybe me joking bout this is a non-joke?
Do they exist?

 

[Bassman]

Trailer with generator. Charge your battery as you drive. Similar idea as chevy volt but externalized the ice to trailer.

Where do I sign up...Ha!
Maybe me joking bout this is a non-joke?
Do they exist?

Check out Ingineer's Towable Turbine Chadmo trailer.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7104&hilit=towable+Turbine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[FairwoodRed]

Engineer has a prototype that he built and brought to a Bay Area Leafers meeting. I got to see the Nissan Engineers gawking at it :0

I'll see if I can find a link for photos on this board...oops. I was beat to it

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Even with a 6.6 kW charger, it won't be fast enough for what you are talking about. You need to work with other EV enthusiasts in your area to start pushing for a DC QC network. Placing the charging stations close enough for 80% charging will make what you are talking about relatively easy. We are finally seeing signs of progress in our area and it should be a real game changer!

...

I disagree. I live in middle Georgia. Every three day weekend people like to go to the beach or mountains. Can't do ether as no range. Go to one of the three theme parks in the state, can't no range. Driving an hr or two to spend the weekend is not unusual here, can't no range.

I grant that the adv number of miles per year is about 15,000. But adv person might drive 200 miles/week going to work. (I believe they stated that 95% of Americans drive less than 40 miles to and from work day) At 50 work weeks a year that is only 10,000 miles year. The other 5,000 miles are weekend get aways. Can't in the Leaf no range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the car and I only drive 700 miles a month. But I can't even drive to the Lake for a day on the water because I wouldn't have enough range for the round trip. Now if my destination was only 75 miles or so, and I could spend six hours to recharge, and they had a 220 for charging. Right now that's a lot of ifs.

I have two cars, but I can see a time in the future when I won't need but one, and unless the range improves I will not be able to use an electric car. That's a shame as I feel the Electric vehicle is much better than an ICE.

 

[davewill]

... I disagree. I live in middle Georgia. Every three day weekend people like to go to the beach or mountains. Can't do ether as no range. Go to one of the three theme parks in the state, can't no range. Driving an hr or two to spend the weekend is not unusual here, can't no range. ...

I'm sure some people do that, but there are plenty of people (probably a healthy majority) that don't do that but a few times a year. The car doesn't have to please everyone, just a big enough slice to create a market. I DO see how a 6.6kW charger could help these scenarios greatly, though. Drive 70 miles to your destination, plug into L2 at the destination and go play. You're charged back up in 3 hours instead of 6 hours, and can head home or go to a secondary destination and plug in again.

 

[smkettner]

6, 8, 10 kW charging would be wonderful out on the road. I think I could easily make a 300 mile drive with that connection.
Why we have 3.3 in the car and AV sell 6.6 for the home install is the dumbest thing possible.
Give me 3.3 at home and 6.6+ on the road would be far better while out and no worse at home.

 

[evnow]

I disagree. I live in middle Georgia. Every three day weekend people like to go to the beach or mountains. Can't do ether as no range. Go to one of the three theme parks in the state, can't no range. Driving an hr or two to spend the weekend is not unusual here, can't no range.

How far are those places ? If you have good QCDC network you may still be able to use Leaf. For eg. see my estimates for times etc from my home to 4 nearby places I might want to go. Ignore the Model S scenarios, just look at the Leaf ones.

 

[Luft]

For BEV's to become main stream there must be a way to go 300 miles in six to seven hours. If it doesn't it will forever be the second town car. And those families with only one car will go with and ICE.

I drive a big V8 sedan that gets 17MPG. My commute is 53 miles per day. I also own my own business that involves around 50 miles per day on the weekends with frequent stops, mostly hard city driving. I think my driving represents more than what the main stream drives. It's over 15,000 miles per year. I'll drive over 70 miles in one day maybe once a month at most. Over 200 miles once or twice a year.

For me and the rest of mainstream, the LEAF would not be a "second car". It's a first car. The second car would be the gas guzzler. People just need to accept range and charging limitations and realize that even those limitations are greater than 95% of their requirements.

At this point, I'm willing to sacrifice the liberty of having extended range in exchange for getting off of my addiction to costly and bloody foreign oil.

I disagree. I live in middle Georgia. Every three day weekend people like to go to the beach or mountains. Can't do ether as no range. Go to one of the three theme parks in the state, can't no range. Driving an hr or two to spend the weekend is not unusual here, can't no range.

I grant that the adv number of miles per year is about 15,000. But adv person might drive 200 miles/week going to work. (I believe they stated that 95% of Americans drive less than 40 miles to and from work day) At 50 work weeks a year that is only 10,000 miles year. The other 5,000 miles are weekend get aways. Can't in the Leaf no range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the car and I only drive 700 miles a month. But I can't even drive to the Lake for a day on the water because I wouldn't have enough range for the round trip. Now if my destination was only 75 miles or so, and I could spend six hours to recharge, and they had a 220 for charging. Right now that's a lot of ifs.

I have two cars, but I can see a time in the future when I won't need but one, and unless the range improves I will not be able to use an electric car. That's a shame as I feel the Electric vehicle is much better than an ICE.

For me even if I only owned one vehicle I would probably make it my LEAF and for the occasional three day week end that I wanted to go distances that are outside my LEAF's range I would rent a car.

With the cost of gas, oil, and other maintenance I think I would still be dollars ahead.

 

[surfingslovak]

6, 8, 10 kW charging would be wonderful out on the road. I think I could easily make a 300 mile drive with that connection.
Why we have 3.3 in the car and AV sell 6.6 for the home install is the dumbest thing possible.
Give me 3.3 at home and 6.6+ on the road would be far better while out and no worse at home.

Couldn't agree more! I had the privilege of driving another EV for the past week, and the onboard 7.7 kW charger is very beneficial for destination charging. The car has 30% more battery capacity as well. And as a result, I don't have to drive 50 in the slow lane, and risk another turtle encounter when going to San Francisco. I can go confidently in the fast lane instead, and have range to spare when I arrive home. I don't know if you have noticed what Renault is doing with the ZOE in Europe. 43 kW three-phase capable onboard charger. Hopefully, this can be interpreted as a sign of future direction for Nissan's vehicles as well.

 

[Stoaty]

Couldn't agree more! I had the privilege of driving another EV for the past week, and the onboard 7.7 kW charger is very beneficial for destination charging. The car has 30% more battery capacity as well.

Is this the Coda? If so, note that the range isn't that much greater (88 vs. 73 = 20% improvement) due to its lower efficiency.

 

[surfingslovak]

Is this the Coda? If so, note that the range isn't that much greater (88 vs. 73 = 20% improvement) due to its lower efficiency.

John, it's the ActiveE. I was accepted into their field trial, and after much deliberation, decided to go for it. I have a sense we will soon see EVs in all shapes, forms and sizes. That's a good thing. I've come to appreciate what Nissan has done with the Leaf however, and I'm under the impression that some of the mistakes will be repeated, and new ones committed, before the bar is raised, and new standards are set.

Perhaps you will appreciate this example. I had to hypermile a bit the other night, and this is what I got as a result on the ActiveE. It's worth noting that I would normally get 5.1 miles/kWh under similar circumstances with the Leaf. The consensus is that this is due to runflat tires, which BMW fitted onto the vehicle. There is also the issue of a much larger vehicle mass, but since I was driving at a constant speed on a flat road, it shouldn't really matter.


Click to enlarge

 

[smkettner]

News today seems to confirm 6.6 charging, better heating, and leather option for US built 2013 Leafs

 

[ERG4ALL]

I think that we will see an extended range LEAF offered in the not-too-distant future for several reasons.

First, I just finished watching (several times) "The Revenge of the Electric Car". In there Carlos Ghosn makes a good point that I'm sure Nissan is following regarding what's coming. He said he didn't want to alert the competition and that the managers at Nissan should soften their approach. He further said that every day that the competition delays starting their own EV program is a good day for Nissan. The point being that they won't tip their hand until it's is ready.

Second, about a year ago Carlos Ghosn stated that within four or five years we would see double the storage capacity of the battery. I doubt that Mr. Chosn would be betting billions of Nissan's dollars if he thought the technology did not have a guarantee of increasing the energy density of the batteries.

Third, I was commenting to my sales rep at Nissan and indicated that it seems as though Mr. Ghosn would rather "under promise and over deliver" than the other way around. She indicated that she has worked for Nissan for 6.5 years and that from day one that is what is drilled into the heads of Nissan employees.

Fourth, I have been following the LEAF since the middle of 2009 (and we have #404). During that time about a year ago I had a phone conversation with a tech. Because we were on the phone instead of a chat session where conversation gets put into writing, the tech said that Nissan was working on a 400 mile battery.

Fifth, I was at a party recently when a friend said he was at the Nissan dealership. He was NOT in the market for a LEAF. He was only in the market for an ICE. The sales rep indicated that he thought Nissan would make an announcement before the end of the year regarding a 400 mile battery. However, I realize that sometimes sales reps get excited and overstate the facts.

Sixth, because I've been tracking the LEAF for so long there was a change in the charging circuit requirements. I happened to be building my garage at the same time I was planning for the LEAF. Initially we were told that a 240V, 30A circuit would be what was required. As it got closer to start of delivery in December of 2010 the requirement was upped to 240V, 40A. Fortunately I had not installed the dry wall yet. I took out the 10 gauge wire and put in 8 gauge with a 40A breaker. This could well indicate that Nissan is planning for a larger battery and wants the power available to be able to charge it at home in a reasonable time frame.

Seventh, Nissan has indicated that they will be going to a 6.6kW charger in the car. The point here is that a 3.3kW home charger is plenty adequate to charge overnight the 21kWh or so of the battery that we're allowed to use. It would make sense that the larger charger would be necessary to be able to fully charge a larger battery overnight.

All of this is just conjecture by "connecting the dots", but evidence does seem to be piling up that we will see improvements in range relatively soon.

 

[TEG]

I don't take the 6.6kW charger change as a sign of a bigger battery, necessarily. Many indications suggest that the battery could be the same as it is now.

The thing that intrigues me most are their projections of higher sales volumes. Like 3x more cars delivered. Early adopters accounted for some initial demand, so why are they confident that sales will increase? I can see various reasons why they might think that:

#1: Higher gas prices?
#2: Better government incentives? ($10K instead of $7.5K? POS rebate instead of tax credit?)
#3: Lower price for the vehicle?
#4: Better specs? (such as longer range?)
#5: More aggressive marking?

I don't see 6.6kW + Leather + more efficient heater accounting for 3x sales.
I suspect something else will change next year, but not sure what.

 

[lpickup]

I suspect something else will change next year, but not sure what.

How about increased manufacturing capacity coupled with nationwide availability (and maybe additional world markets as well)?