LEAF to get 6.6kW charger in 2013

[TEG]

Inaccurate? :

http://seekingalpha.com/article/246143-ford-focus-electric-competing-for-ev-leadership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Charge Twice as Fast

Ford is making a big deal of the fact that the 2012 Ford Focus Electric charges twice as fast as the 2011 Nissan LEAF. Ford is 6.6 kW/h; Nissan (NSANY.PK) is 3.3 kW/h. The comparison is unfair. The 2012 Nissan LEAF, available at the same time as the 2012 Focus Electric, will also charge at the faster 6.6 kW/h. Nissan, like most automakers, have been waiting for SAE to finalize certain charging standards. In 2012, both cars can be recharged after typical driving in less than 3 hours.

If you are a pioneer buyer of the 2011 LEAF, then you will either be content to charge at 3.3 kW/h, or you will pay to upgrade to 6.6 kW/h. Clean Fleet Report speculates that Nissan will charge $1,000 to $2,000 for the upgrade. Most chargers being installed are ready for 6.6 kW/h and are smart enough to charge at the vehicle’s rate, be it 3.3 or 6.6...

 

[EVDRIVER]

Inaccurate? :

http://seekingalpha.com/article/246143-ford-focus-electric-competing-for-ev-leadership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Charge Twice as Fast

Ford is making a big deal of the fact that the 2012 Ford Focus Electric charges twice as fast as the 2011 Nissan LEAF. Ford is 6.6 kW/h; Nissan (NSANY.PK) is 3.3 kW/h. The comparison is unfair. The 2012 Nissan LEAF, available at the same time as the 2012 Focus Electric, will also charge at the faster 6.6 kW/h. Nissan, like most automakers, have been waiting for SAE to finalize certain charging standards. In 2012, both cars can be recharged after typical driving in less than 3 hours.

If you are a pioneer buyer of the 2011 LEAF, then you will either be content to charge at 3.3 kW/h, or you will pay to upgrade to 6.6 kW/h. Clean Fleet Report speculates that Nissan will charge $1,000 to $2,000 for the upgrade. Most chargers being installed are ready for 6.6 kW/h and are smart enough to charge at the vehicle’s rate, be it 3.3 or 6.6...

Likely unless heavily subsidized. Why pay $2K for only 6.6kw after already paying for 3.3. 12KW, yes at that price.

 

[TEG]

http://www.nctcog.org/trans/air/programs/evnt/NissanLeaf_Oct09.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Likely unless heavily subsidized. Why pay $2K for only 6.6kw after already paying for 3.3. 12KW, yes at that price.

Good point. Although it would behoove us to assume the worst, I would be surprised if Nissan did not treat its early EV customers well. Ingineer mentioned at the last SF BayLEAFs that he was actively looking into a 10kW charger upgrade. I realize that this topic has been discussed at great length before, but I look forward to hear about his findings.

 

[mwalsh]

I would definitely pay $2000 to upgrade to 6.6kW L2. I wouldn't, however, be in a position to buy a brand new LEAF next year just to get that and a cold weather package I would likely never need.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would definitely pay $2000 to upgrade to 6.6kW L2. I wouldn't, however, be in a position to buy a brand new LEAF next year just to get that and a cold weather package I would likely never need.

I highly doubt that would be an option. By the time it was you could do 2x that in the aftermarket.

 

[surfingslovak]

Have a look at the Q&A session Carlos Ghosn gave at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research couple of months ago.

Note how he makes a reference to a dual "slow charge, fast charge system". They did not get into the specifics of slow charging and why the 3.3kW charger was ultimately selected. It's pretty clear however that they don't expect their largest market to be stuck in slow charging mode for very long. Given that fast charging is an integral part of Nissan's strategy, it's a bit surprising that they are not lobbying harder or not pushing some of their dealers to install DC chargers as a service.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4alG3T1kuU&t=84s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jkirkebo]

Given that fast charging is an integral part of Nissan's strategy, it's a bit surprising that they are not lobbying
harder or not pushing some of their dealers to install DC chargers as a service.

They are over here anyway. Any Nissan dealer in Norway that wants to sell the Leaf must first install (on their own expense) a DC fast charger. They are only installing L3 chargers though, no L2 in sight.

Then again, any public L2 we have is only 16A and you must use your own EVSE (Schuko socket on all public L2s). On the other hand, all L3 chargers so far (~30-40 at the end of the year) are free to use, no payment needed.

 

[TomT]

The biggest inaccuracy is that we all now know that the 2012 Leaf will NOT have a 6.6Kw charger...

Inaccurate?

 

[surfingslovak]

They are over here anyway. Any Nissan dealer in Norway that wants to sell the Leaf must first install (on their own expense) a DC fast charger. They are only installing L3 chargers though, no L2 in sight.

Then again, any public L2 we have is only 16A and you must use your own EVSE (Schuko socket on all public L2s). On the other hand, all L3 chargers so far (~30-40 at the end of the year) are free to use, no payment needed.

That is nothing short of amazing! Very surprised to hear about L2s with Schuko sockets, that must be a pain. I'm really fond of Coulomb's L2 stations, they are very convenient. Do you own a Leaf or some other EV? What is their adoption rate in Norway?

 

[jkirkebo]

They are over here anyway. Any Nissan dealer in Norway that wants to sell the Leaf must first install (on their own expense) a DC fast charger. They are only installing L3 chargers though, no L2 in sight.

Then again, any public L2 we have is only 16A and you must use your own EVSE (Schuko socket on all public L2s). On the other hand, all L3 chargers so far (~30-40 at the end of the year) are free to use, no payment needed.

That is nothing short of amazing! Very surprised to hear about L2s with Schuko sockets, that must be a pain. I'm really fond of Coulomb's L2 stations, they are very convenient. Do you own a Leaf or some other EV? What is their adoption rate in Norway?

No Leafs have been delivered yet, I will get mine probably in a month or two. The rumours are that we'll get about 700 cars this year. Combine this with the ~900 iMiEVs sold so far and some other EVs (Think City, some Teslas etc.) and we'll probably sell over 2000 EVs here this year. The total is around 100.000 cars so that is about 2% EV market share.

We'll probably never get J1772 EVSEs over here, that is a single-phase US standard. The L2s will slowly be converted to Mennekes I guess, so I'll need a J1772-Mennekes cable. Much better than using the Nissan EVSE.

I am looking to put in a Clipper Creek LCS-25 at home.

 

[KeiJidosha]

So Renault ZOE is going to have 43kW on-board charger.

"ZOE is the first electric vehicle capable of being charged at any level of power – in between 30 minutes and nine hours – thanks to the Chameleon charger."

Could this show up in the 2013 LEAF? It would explain no charger upgrade path for 2011/2012, Mark Perry 's comment that the Leaf dosen't need 100+ mile range, and Calos Ghosn's confidence in higher sales. You could throw away the CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers and replace them with a conector.

 

[TomT]

I'll go on record as stating that the probability of that in North America in 2013 is infinitesimally close to zero...

So Renault ZOE is going to have 43kW on-board charger.
"ZOE is the first electric vehicle capable of being charged at any level of power – in between 30 minutes and nine hours – thanks to the Chameleon charger."

Could this show up in the 2013 LEAF? It would explain no charger upgrade path for 2011/2012, Mark Perry 's comment that the Leaf dosen't need 100+ mile range, and Calos Ghosn's confidence in higher sales. You could throw away the CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers and replace them with a conector.

 

[DaveEV]

So Renault ZOE is going to have 43kW on-board charger.

"ZOE is the first electric vehicle capable of being charged at any level of power – in between 30 minutes and nine hours – thanks to the Chameleon charger."

Could this show up in the 2013 LEAF? It would explain no charger upgrade path for 2011/2012, Mark Perry 's comment that the Leaf dosen't need 100+ mile range, and Calos Ghosn's confidence in higher sales. You could throw away the CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers and replace them with a conector.

Unlikely. Keep in mind that the ZOE charger can handle a 43 kW 3-phase AC input - completely different than both CHAdeMO and the J1772 DC quick charge standard.

 

[N952JL]

I'll go on record as stating that the probability of that in North America in 2013 is infinitesimally close to zero...

So Renault ZOE is going to have 43kW on-board charger.
"ZOE is the first electric vehicle capable of being charged at any level of power – in between 30 minutes and nine hours – thanks to the Chameleon charger."

Could this show up in the 2013 LEAF? It would explain no charger upgrade path for 2011/2012, Mark Perry 's comment that the Leaf dosen't need 100+ mile range, and Calos Ghosn's confidence in higher sales. You could throw away the CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers and replace them with a conector.

I agree, it is way too late for the 2013 Leaf out of TN. But maybe the 2015 or 2016 Model Year. Perry was way incorrect if he feels the Leaf will never need a larger range. For BEV's to become main stream there must be a way to go 300 miles in six to seven hours. If it doesn't it will forever be the second town car. And those families with only one car will go with and ICE. The promise of a 300 mile battery pack within three years at or less than the current prices is out there. We will need a charger capable of recharging in a reasonable (less than 90 mins) time. A second option is an optional Extended Range trailer.

What do you think about the ZOE's battery lease. They are talking about the fuel savings between 2.00 worth of electric to recharge vice fuel for 100 miles on the ICE. But they seem to forget to include a portion of the battery lease charges in there. You need to add the leasing cost into the payment for the car if you want to compare it to the Leaf.

 

[KJD]

So Renault ZOE is going to have 43kW on-board charger.

"ZOE is the first electric vehicle capable of being charged at any level of power – in between 30 minutes and nine hours – thanks to the Chameleon charger."

What does the connector look like ?
It must not be a J1772 as it only allows 240 volts and 80 amps (19.2 kw).

 

[mitch672]

Mennekes Connectors, can handle single phase or 3 phase, its the EV Standard for Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mennekes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

What does the connector look like ?
It must not be a J1772 as it only allows 240 volts and 80 amps (19.2 kw).

It appears to be a Mennekes socket.

Lots of good pics on this post on TMC:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/4573-Renault-Zoe-ZE?p=120532&viewfull=1#post120532" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[kubel]

For BEV's to become main stream there must be a way to go 300 miles in six to seven hours. If it doesn't it will forever be the second town car. And those families with only one car will go with and ICE.

I drive a big V8 sedan that gets 17MPG. My commute is 53 miles per day. I also own my own business that involves around 50 miles per day on the weekends with frequent stops, mostly hard city driving. I think my driving represents more than what the main stream drives. It's over 15,000 miles per year. I'll drive over 70 miles in one day maybe once a month at most. Over 200 miles once or twice a year.

For me and the rest of mainstream, the LEAF would not be a "second car". It's a first car. The second car would be the gas guzzler. People just need to accept range and charging limitations and realize that even those limitations are greater than 95% of their requirements.

At this point, I'm willing to sacrifice the liberty of having extended range in exchange for getting off of my addiction to costly and bloody foreign oil.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

...
At this point, I'm willing to sacrifice the liberty of having extended range in exchange for getting off of my addiction to costly and bloody foreign oil.

Great to hear it, welcome aboard!!!