L3 Charger...is it worth the $700?

[garygid]

With QC (L3) charging on a freeway trip, except for the first segment starting from 100% charge (possibly a slightly longer drive time), one drives about 60 minutes (from 80% charge), and then charges for about 30 minutes, right?

Might even be less time driving (and charging) depending upon the spacing of QC charge stations and the driving conditions (going uphill, etc.).

For example, assuming QC station spacing at 25 miles, with only an 80% charge and some up-grade, one probably cannot make 75 miles, so stopping after 50 miles is the only option.

With 40-mile spacing, one would need to stop at every e-station.

Then, add the possible wait-time if somebody else is charging.

Hopefully, all e-stations will have free WiFi access.

 

[LEAFguy]

According to the New thread on range expectations, it's recommended that fast charging only be done no more than once per day

That's my question: Do they mean 80% or full fast charging?

Also, from another post:

Ah, so now I'm wondering if you just do the quick 80%, then disconnect, will it still be harmful to your batteries? Or does most of the harm come from DC charging for the next 90 minutes?

In the new "how far can i go" page in "My account" it actually does say this under the "battery life" tab:

To help maintain battery capacity:

Don't exceed 80% state of charge when using quick charging.

So apparently it is not the first 80% that is detrimental to battery life, it is the last 20%.

 

[smkettner]

I honestly believe this is why the main charger is just 3.3Kw rather than 6.6Kw as some would prefer. To some extent the faster you charge the more wear and tear on the eventual battery capacity. Fast charging to 80% might be minimal but will add up over time. IMO if you fast charge to 80% every day the battery longevity will suffer. Apparently fast charging above 80% or fast charging to 80% several times a day is even harder on the battery. This could be heat related in addition to the rapid chemical reaction needed. IMO the L3 connector could reduce the value when these cars get to be 5+ years old due to unknown degradation of the battery capacity. If you are leasing it probably is a non issue. If you need L3 you need L3 but I would not just get the L3 for eventual resale value. This is my opinion, no source.

 

[Ready2plugin]

I honestly believe this is why the main charger is just 3.3Kw rather than 6.6Kw as some would prefer. To some extent the faster you charge the more wear and tear on the eventual battery capacity. Fast charging to 80% might be minimal but will add up over time. IMO if you fast charge to 80% every day the battery longevity will suffer. Apparently fast charging above 80% or fast charging to 80% several times a day is even harder on the battery. This could be heat related in addition to the rapid chemical reaction needed. IMO the L3 connector could reduce the value when these cars get to be 5+ years old due to unknown degradation of the battery capacity. If you are leasing it probably is a non issue. If you need L3 you need L3 but I would not just get the L3 for eventual resale value. This is my opinion, no source.

There are battery tests that Nissan will do to determine the degradation of the battery, so if you have an L3 or not, it should be known when you sell the car, just what condition the battery is in.

 

[playtimeover]

L3 Charger for $700? I think it's not.. Down..

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Really, 6.6kW is not aggressive at all for a 24kWh battery.

In battery terms, that represents a C/4 charge rate. (Charge power is 1/4 the rated capacity.) That would be considered "slow charge" by most standards.

I regularly charge consumer LiPo batteries at "1C" (one hour to full charge) and that's still pretty mild in terms of temperature increase. Many batteries support 3C or even 5C charging (12 minute charge).

All I'm saying is that the difference in terms of battery lifespan between C/4(6kW) and C/8(3kW) charging is really nothing.

 

[DaveEV]

IMO the L3 connector could reduce the value when these cars get to be 5+ years old due to unknown degradation of the battery capacity.

There will be no unknowns about the state of the battery. The battery gauge on the dash will show you how much overall capacity has been lost and the free yearly battery reports will give you full details about the condition of your pack.

 

[charlie1300]

It would appear that the L3 charger is only worthwhile for those in the five pilot states, where some public L3 chargers apparently are going to be installed. For folks like me in the "forgotten 36 states"( like that, Mitch?), I seroiusly doubt any L3 chargers will be installed with 100 miles of my home. I won't be getting it.

If SAE picks another standard for DC charging next summer, then this option is really dead.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

If SAE picks another standard for DC charging next summer, then this option is really dead.

Not really. If there are 60 TEPCO DC chargers in San Diego alone, then I want a port for that connector. I don't care what other cars go with, or other chargers. If/when there are more than 60 chargers on some other standard, then I'm interested. By then I'm looking at a different car anyway.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Not really. If there are 60 TEPCO DC chargers in San Diego alone, then I want a port for that connector. I don't care what other cars go with, or other chargers. If/when there are more than 60 chargers on some other standard, then I'm interested. By then I'm looking at a different car anyway.

One could use an adaptor dongle if needed.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

One could use an adaptor dongle if needed.

I wonder. It seems like the data communication between CHAdeMO and the car is a bit more involved than AC charging, and SAE may go with something else altogether, possibly even encrypted like HDMI (for licensing and payment). I'm just guessing.

You'd have to put a lot of trust in a DC adapter carrying that much current, making it's own back-side deals with the DC charger while talking to the car. Doable, sure, but you go first.

 

[DarkStar]

I wonder. It seems like the data communication between CHAdeMO and the car is a bit more involved than AC charging, and SAE may go with something else altogether, possibly even encrypted like HDMI (for licensing and payment). I'm just guessing.

Let it be known that I will bet you a soda that they never even consider a digital encryption system. I'm considering betting another soda that the SAE just goes with the CHAdeMO protocol (not necessarily the same connector though).

 

[garygid]

To add the high-current pins to a super-sized QC plug that covers the present J1772 connector creates an unnecessarily large QC plug, and uses the same L1/L2 plug.

Much easier and less expensive to just mold the J1772 and Chademo sockets into one piece, perhaps side by side, and then just use the two present (smaller J1772 and modest-sized QC) plugs.