Just raced with a Chevy Volt

[aqn]

Conversely, a vehicle can be very quick, getting up to speed very quickly, but if it is not able to reach a very high speed, is not "fast". An example might be a dragster.

Not sure what kind of dragster you're thinking of, but a top fuel dragster can hit speeds around 300mph in under 5 seconds. I think that qualifies as both quick and fast...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_fuel_dragster

Well, yes, but "quick" and "fast" are relative, and you're talking about the biggest baddest of all dragsters. In any case, even the top fuel dragsters is only a fraction as "fast" as the fastest wheel-driven land speed record vehicles. Conversely, LSR vehicles aren't anywhere near as "quick" as the top fuelies. In fact, many LSR vehicles can not do 0-60 at all (or even 0-100) because their gearing is so tall (numerically low). From a standing start, they need to be pushed by another vehicle until they get up to a speed where they can accelerate on their own.

 

[daniel]

I'd like to say that Volt owners are not our enemy. I personally do not trust GM. They crushed the EV1, then they dragged their feet with all sort of promises, and they've priced the Volt so high that few will be sold. I think the Leaf is the better car. Heck, I think my Zap Xebra SD is a better car than the Volt. But that does not mean I have any bone to pick with owners of the Volt.

Next, I think it's silly to race cars designed to be efficient and economical. It reminds me of the hermit crab race I watched once. And even sillier to buy a Leaf and then tear it apart to make it faster or quicker. If you want a fast EV, get a fast EV. There's the Tango and the Tesla, or you could join a DIY club and convert something.

I got to test-drive a Leaf a while back when they had one in town for a car show. The dealer had the car before and after the show and let folks drive it. Eco mode was so sluggish I'd never use it unless I needed to push the range. Regular mode seemed faster off the line than my Prius. I didn't get to take it on the freeway, but the dealer assured me it was acceptable at the high end for passing on the freeway. And with a freeway range under 100 miles, I'm not likely to want to pass anyone going slower than 65, and if I'm behind someone going 60 (so I'm not blamed for blocking the cars behind me) I'm entirely happy at that speed. On the surface streets I thought the car was quite peppy. Of course, I mostly drive the little Xebra, so I have low expectations.

 

[earther]

I'd like to say that Volt owners are not our enemy. I personally do not trust GM. They crushed the EV1, then they dragged their feet with all sort of promises, and they've priced the Volt so high that few will be sold. I think the Leaf is the better car...

To me, the Chevy Volt is akin to a piece of nicotine gum that will morph into a cigarette in your lips if it detects your craving gets really bad. A step in the right direction, but in the end, somewhat self-defeating.

-Steve

 

[TRONZ]

If you think the LEAF is going to behave like a bland economy car, you will be pleasantly shocked! It is much more of a "hot hatchback" and the ultimate sleeper . A couple of interesting observations;

#1 - Because the car is so quiet, other drivers are VERY demoralized when they get beaten by a car that did not even seem to be trying.
#2 - The typically ignorant anti EV's folks REALLY don't like being beaten by the LEAF. Made much worse for them by the #1 observation.

I am so getting the "sports car" when it comes out!!!

 

[ericsf]

To me, the Chevy Volt is akin to a piece of nicotine gum that will morph into a cigarette in your lips if it detects your craving gets really bad. A step in the right direction, but in the end, somewhat self-defeating.

On top of this they get the same rebates and incentives that only the true EV believers should be getting... I do not think it's fair. To me as long as it has a gas tank it's not an electric car.

 

[TomT]

No offense, but I just don't see how something that takes 10 seconds to get to 60 can be called "hot" or a "sleeper..."

If you think the LEAF is going to behave like a bland economy car, you will be pleasantly shocked! It is much more of a "hot hatchback" and the ultimate sleeper!

 

[garygid]

It's good the first 100 feet (across the intersection)!

 

[TomT]

Yes, but it is also not any better, or even as good, than a lot of middle of the line ICE vehicles...

I can see it now, "NHRA presents the 100 foot EV drag races!"

It's good the first 100 feet (across the intersection)!

 

[AndyH]

Half the race is machine - the other is the capability and expectations of the drivers. A proper sleeper doesn't look like a threat so the opposing driver doesn't necessarily bother to get into 'full game face'.

What's the verdict - 'fast' or 'quick'?


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbi1RhgRrxk[/youtube]

 

[daniel]

If you think the LEAF is going to behave like a bland economy car, you will be pleasantly shocked! It is much more of a "hot hatchback" and the ultimate sleeper . A couple of interesting observations;

#1 - Because the car is so quiet, other drivers are VERY demoralized when they get beaten by a car that did not even seem to be trying.
#2 - The typically ignorant anti EV's folks REALLY don't like being beaten by the LEAF. Made much worse for them by the #1 observation.

I am so getting the "sports car" when it comes out!!!

I never called the Leaf "bland," but it is not a race car. I drove one when they had a demo briefly at my local dealer. I was delighted with its acceleration. It seemed a bit better than my Prius, but my real comparison is to me daily driver, the Zap Xebra, and of course anything feels fast compared to that. I did not get a chance to drive it on the freeway. I gather that its acceleration at the high end is "adequate" but not impressive. It was very bland in eco mode, but clearly that mode is for when you need to go to the limit of your range.

Which sports car are you referring to? You can get a Tesla Roadster now. That's the ultimate sports car. Or do you mean the Tesla Model S? I gather that's a few years away yet. I suppose there will be others coming along. But if the Tesla Roadster is too pricey for you, you could probably build a DIY conversion sports car before another sports EV comes along from a major manufacturer.

The Leaf was not designed to compete with ICE vehicles for speed or acceleration. It was not intended to race against ICE vehicles. If you want to talk about racing, check out the videos of the White Zombie. The Leaf was designed and is intended to provide commuter transportation without gasoline. Any criticism of the Leaf based on its acceleration compared to ICE cars is just plain silly. Let's compare the Leaf to ICE cars regarding the cost per mile for fuel and the environmental, economic, and national security consequences of dependence on (mostly foreign) petroleum.

 

[aqn]

I can see it now, "NHRA presents the 100 foot EV drag races!"

Have you tried Google'ing for "100 foot drag race"? We've had "my penis extension is bigger than yours" races since the time of chariots, so it wouldn't be long before we have 100-foot EV drag races. Heck, we already have electric dragsters.

 

[TRONZ]

Which sports car are you referring to?
.

Nissan ESFlow

 

[AndyH]

The Leaf was not designed to compete with ICE vehicles for speed or acceleration. It was not intended to race against ICE vehicles. ... The Leaf was designed and is intended to provide commuter transportation without gasoline. Any criticism of the Leaf based on its acceleration compared to ICE cars is just plain silly. Let's compare the Leaf to ICE cars regarding the cost per mile for fuel and the environmental, economic, and national security consequences of dependence on (mostly foreign) petroleum.

Excellent point about the Zap - a shopping cart has slightly lower performance than my 5kW motorcycle.

I ran some numbers for my daily driver after driving the Leaf in Austin and my smile got a smidge wider. My 97 VW diesel is a gas-free commuter as well - though that's a bit of a technicality.

All in all - thought the Leaf won't hold my 6' folding tables, and I have no intention of loading it with three 30-gallon drums of oil, it compares very favorably with this mid-sized 5-passenger Euro station wagon.

                     '97 Passat TDI     '11 Leaf

HP                    66kW/89hp         80kW/107hp
Torque             202nm/149 lbft     280nm/206 lbft
Curb Weight          3197lbs             3366lbs
Length              181"/4610mm      175.0/4445mm
Width                67.5"/1715mm     69.7"/1770mm
Height               58.7"/1491mm     61.0/1550mm
Wheelbase         103.3"/2624mm    106.3/2700mm

 

[daniel]

Which sports car are you referring to?
.

Nissan ESFlow

Concept car. May or may not make it to production, and if it does, the details are liable to have changed significantly from the early "concept." And they don't seem to be saying what it will cost. Why dream about a concept car you may never see when you can buy a Tesla Roadster right now? Assuming you have a bit over a hundred grand to burn.

 

[aqn]

If you think the LEAF is going to behave like a bland economy car, you will be pleasantly shocked! It is much more of a "hot hatchback" and the ultimate sleeper . A couple of interesting observations;

#1 - Because the car is so quiet, other drivers are VERY demoralized when they get beaten by a car that did not even seem to be trying.
#2 - The typically ignorant anti EV's folks REALLY don't like being beaten by the LEAF. Made much worse for them by the #1 observation.

I am so getting the "sports car" when it comes out!!!

I never called the Leaf "bland," but it is not a race car.

Nobody even came close to referring to the LEAF as a "race car". I'm also pretty sure nobody has bought a LEAF for its acceleration or top speed prowess or for its handling. Neither have I. OTOH, I can have fun driving a wheelbarrow, let alone a LEAF. There is no commandment of "Thou shall not be a hooligan in thy LEAF."

The Leaf was not designed to compete with ICE vehicles for speed or acceleration. It was not intended to race against ICE vehicles.

Let's not get carried away now. I'm pretty sure nobody was talking about "race" or "race against ICE vehicles". Let's be real. A pedal-to-the-metal romp across the intersection or city block is not "racing". I'm also not under any illusion about the number of ICE vehicles that a LEAF can beat from 0-60 or in the quarter-mile or in any sort of sanctioned competition of speed and/or acceleration. However, I believe (obviously I won't know until I actually get my LEAF) that, from a standing start across the intersection or across the first 100 feet or so, the LEAF will prove to be quite entertaining.

Any criticism of the Leaf based on its acceleration compared to ICE cars is just plain silly.

I don't believe anybody has criticised the LEAF's acceleration?

Let's compare the Leaf to ICE cars regarding the cost per mile for fuel and the environmental, economic, and national security consequences of dependence on (mostly foreign) petroleum.

Where's the fun in that?! It's clearly a cake walk for the LEAF in in that arena.

 

[daniel]

Nobody even came close to referring to the LEAF as a "race car". I'm also pretty sure nobody has bought a LEAF for its acceleration or top speed prowess or for its handling. Neither have I. OTOH, I can have fun driving a wheelbarrow, let alone a LEAF. There is no commandment of "Thou shall not be a hooligan in thy LEAF."

Maybe not a "Commandment" but being a hooligan is disrespectful of others.

However, I believe (obviously I won't know until I actually get my LEAF) that, from a standing start across the intersection or across the first 100 feet or so, the LEAF will prove to be quite entertaining.

It is indeed quite peppy. I got to drive one. You will enjoy its acceleration.

Let's not get carried away now. I'm pretty sure nobody was talking about "race" or "race against ICE vehicles"

Take a look at the title of this thread. "Just raced with a Chevy Volt."

I don't believe anybody has criticised the LEAF's acceleration?

Yes, some folks have. It's not a muscle car.

 

[TRONZ]

It too funny. Staying OT it's a friendly contest between the Volt and the LEAF. Then the "critics" show up talking like racing experts. I would be very curious to know how many "critics" on this thread have actual motorsports racing backgrounds anyways? In my experience, most of the "studs" that love reciting 0-60 times of random cars or bikes have never set foot on a track much less competed in an official race. Being the head of a racing family, my little girl has more actual racing experience than most of these clowns.

 

[davewill]

To me, the Chevy Volt is akin to a piece of nicotine gum that will morph into a cigarette in your lips if it detects your craving gets really bad. A step in the right direction, but in the end, somewhat self-defeating.

-Steve

I see no reason to take that tone. If I had to make do with single vehicle, I'd have probably gotten the Volt. My daily commute is almost always under 20mi, much less 40, and I do occasionally need more range than the Leaf. Only the fact that I have a good sized family and will keep the Prius as a second car allowed me to choose the Leaf.

 

[TomT]

For me:

SCCA C Production in a Lotus Elan for four years
SCCA Autocross circuit for a dozen years in numerous vehicles
Shifter go karts for a loooong time
Numerous local club sponsored autocrosses over many years in numerous vehicles

It too funny. Staying OT it's a friendly contest between the Volt and the LEAF. Then the "critics" show up talking like racing experts. I would be very curious to know how many "critics" on this thread have actual motorsports racing backgrounds anyways? In my experience, most of the "studs" that love reciting 0-60 times of random cars or bikes have never set foot on a track much less competed in an official race. Being the head of a racing family, my little girl has more actual racing experience than most of these clowns.

 

[ht2]

MOD THAT LEAF! :lol: :lol:

So what can we do to Leaf?
Bigger motor or bigger battery?