Is Nissan likely to lower buy-out prices on leased cars?

[DaveinOlyWA]

I like the Infiniti LE but if it does not have liquid cooling TMS and true 100 mile range with heater or a/c on, they will be getting my Chili back and moving on to something else.

Ian B

oh? bummer then...obtw, what range do YOU think it has?

 

[MrIanB]

I like the Infiniti LE but if it does not have liquid cooling TMS and true 100 mile range with heater or a/c on, they will be getting my Chili back and moving on to something else.

Ian B

oh? bummer then...obtw, what range do YOU think it has?

Haven't heard that it will have a larger battery than Leaf so far, so I expect it to be about the same as Leaf. My guess, about 80 miles. Again, without cooling TMS, I am not interested. I live here in Texas and our summers can be brutally hot. I am not going to take a chance to have the issues some of the Az folks have had to deal with. Lets hope Nissan comes through for the LE and change my mind. We can only hope.

Ian B

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Not that anyone at Nissan has asked for input, but here's a thought: Offer a substantial discount on the residual buyout for lessees who are leasing a new Leaf, or an LE, or any other Nissan or Infiniti vehicle for that matter. The lessees might chose to pass the old Leafs along to their kids, keep the Leaf and replace another gas car in their garage hybrid, or sell the Leaf to family or friends. In effect this would crowdsource the task of finding homes for some of the Leafs coming off lease, which could present some ugliness for the normal sales channel because of the unique nature of EV buyers if a bunch of them hit the market at once. For those lessees who would otherwise turn in the car and head elsewhere it would provide an incentive to go with another Nissan product, and provide additional incentive to upgrade for those who were inclined to buy out the car and drive the wheels off it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i do see the possibility of getting maybe a slight discount on a buyout if you are one of the $20 something buyout people but my buyout is just over $15,000 which i think is a bit high but not overly so considering the battery thing despite the fact that I estimate to only have about 10 % degradation or less at the time of the buy decision.

what I would agree to is a new or refurbished (i dont care as long as it has 100% capacity) for a bump in the price to say $18,000 or so? that would do it for me.

 

[evnow]

Not that anyone at Nissan has asked for input, but here's a thought: Offer a substantial discount on the residual buyout for lessees who are leasing a new Leaf, or an LE, or any other Nissan or Infiniti vehicle for that matter.

They won't do that. What they might do is a loyalty program where they give a discount on the new Nissan you would buy, if you own/lease a Leaf now. In effect the same thing, though.

BTW, no loyalty program has been announced yet. We may have to wait till March.

 

[fastmaxxcooper]

Its really aggravating how it all turned out. I was an "early adopter" and bought into the hype price. Now that you can buy a leftover 2012 Leaf for the same amount of money that I'll pay in my 39 month lease, and then still have a $15500 residual, theres no way I'm going to buy my Leaf. Its heartbreaking how it turned out. Really took the wind out of my sales for this kind of stuff. I'll stick to old VWs after this nightmare is over.

If only I knew how bad of an investment it was, I would have waited until now!

 

[dgpcolorado]

Its really aggravating how it all turned out. I was an "early adopter" and bought into the hype price. Now that you can buy a leftover 2012 Leaf for the same amount of money that I'll pay in my 39 month lease, and then still have a $15500 residual, theres no way I'm going to buy my Leaf. Its heartbreaking how it turned out. Really took the wind out of my sales for this kind of stuff. I'll stick to old VWs after this nightmare is over.

If only I knew how bad of an investment it was, I would have waited until now!

Cars aren't "investments", they are depreciating consumer goods. It was fairly easy to predict that the LEAF and other EV offerings would rapidly improve and prices would drop as volumes help economies of scale. It was also obvious that waiting a few years would allow one to buy a used LEAF for less than a new one.

Some of us jumped on board early because we had been waiting for a mass produced EV for a long time. Others wanted to show support for the car in the hope that it becomes a successful product, since electric cars are necessary to wean our economy off of oil. I did it for both reasons. I'm happy that the LEAF features are improving and the price is dropping because I want more people to drive electric and it means my next EV will be even better and cheaper when the time comes to replace the LEAF.

 

[QueenBee]

Its really aggravating how it all turned out. I was an "early adopter" and bought into the hype price. Now that you can buy a leftover 2012 Leaf for the same amount of money that I'll pay in my 39 month lease, and then still have a $15500 residual, theres no way I'm going to buy my Leaf. Its heartbreaking how it turned out. Really took the wind out of my sales for this kind of stuff. I'll stick to old VWs after this nightmare is over.

If only I knew how bad of an investment it was, I would have waited until now!

Cars aren't "investments", they are depreciating consumer goods. It was fairly easy to predict that the LEAF and other EV offerings would rapidly improve and prices would drop as volumes help economies of scale. It was also obvious that waiting a few years would allow one to buy a used LEAF for less than a new one.

Some of us jumped on board early because we had been waiting for a mass produced EV for a long time. Others wanted to show support for the car in the hope that it becomes a successful product, since electric cars are necessary to wean our economy off of oil. I did it for both reasons. I'm happy that the LEAF features are improving and the price is dropping because I want more people to drive electric and it means my next EV will be even better and cheaper when the time comes to replace the LEAF.

Agree with everything you said dgpcolorado. Another point is that the 2011 LEAF and even the 2012 was a good deal compared to other new cars of similar quality when considering gas savings.

fastmaxxcooper, it sounds like the issue is you paid way too much for your lease if you'll have paid over $20,000 over 39 months. You also ignoring the fact that buying a car out right is cheaper than financing.

Who ever mislead you into thinking that buying or leasing brand new cars was ever an investment let alone a good investment certainly contributed to your nightmares....

I'll be in your same position in a year in a half and unless the used LEAF market is full of cars below $15k thus allowing me to give mine back and buy a used one for less money I'll be paying the $15k residual. Either way I'll be happy though because the LEAF is the best car I've ever driven and is an affordable EV in my budget.

 

[planet4ever]

Its really aggravating how it all turned out. I was an "early adopter" and bought into the hype price. Now that you can buy a leftover 2012 Leaf for the same amount of money that I'll pay in my 39 month lease, and then still have a $15500 residual, theres no way I'm going to buy my Leaf. Its heartbreaking how it turned out. Really took the wind out of my sales for this kind of stuff. I'll stick to old VWs after this nightmare is over.

I understand your pain - I will have paid nearly that much for my 36 month lease, but I'm not aggravated. If I had decided to purchase I would have had to finance it and I would have paid a lot more than that by next year, with not much more to show for it.

Your mention of VW sent my brain off on an interesting tangent. My first car was a 1961 VW Beetle, and I'd like my last car to be the electric equivalent of that. (I only have a few years of driving ahead of me.) I thought briefly that the iMeiv might be that car, but I guess not. Could the LEAF be? Possibly, with the new S model, but I don't expect to see a book any time soon called 'How to Keep Your LEAF Alive, for the Compleat Idiot'. Nor do I consider it likely that today's LEAF can be kept alive by back yard mechanics for 30, 40, or more years. The Bug didn't appear until 30 years after Henry Ford started cranking out Model T's, so we may have to wait a while for its electric equivalent.

In any event, while the S model has some nice simplifications over the SV and SL, it doesn't come close yet to my shade tree dream. But it, as well as the integrated power unit in the entire line, is a fairly major evolutionary step. Which brings me back from my tangent to the topic at hand. I originally guessed that 2012 and 2013 would bring only minor changes from 2011, and that major enhancements would come in 2014. That, in addition to the California rebate, was an important factor in my deciding on a three year lease. I now suspect that the bigger change is in 2013, that the 2014s will be pretty much the same as the 2013s, and we won't see battery changes until 2015.

So, this leaves me holding a lease that ends next year, without much hope of finding the car, LEAF or other, that I really want to replace it with. Curiously, Nissan seems to be really pushing two-year leases now, even in California. Are they trying to hint that something exciting might be happening two years from now? That would dovetail nicely with three-year leases started last year, but those of us with 2011 leases might be left holding the bag. Yes, it sure would be nice if they could do something special for us.

Ray

P.S. Full disclosure to QueenBee, I'm paying $472/month (including taxes) with a $16K residual. That's kinda what things were like for early adopters.

 

[adric22]

I have a 2011 and I'm paying $410 per month with $15,500 residual. I don't think it is particularly bad deal. As I've stated numerous times, i still plan to buy out my lease at the end. I think it will be hard to find a used 2011 Leaf in as good of condition as mine for $15,500. (plus we don't have to pay sales tax in Texas when we buy out a lease) And if you wait long enough that the subsidies run out, then the price of used Leafs will shoot up a few grand.

 

[QueenBee]

I have a 2011 and I'm paying $410 per month with $15,500 residual. I don't think it is particularly bad deal. As I've stated numerous times, i still plan to buy out my lease at the end. I think it will be hard to find a used 2011 Leaf in as good of condition as mine for $15,500. (plus we don't have to pay sales tax in Texas when we buy out a lease) And if you wait long enough that the subsidies run out, then the price of used Leafs will shoot up a few grand.

I'm paying $320 but we have no sales tax at on EVs. The cheapest new 2012 I saw on AutoTrader was over $30k, obviously not a realistic price. I have no idea what the OP thinks they can buy a new 2012 for but even if its $20k, if their lease is costing them more than $20k then they certainly got horrible deal on their car.

 

[Publius]

I have enjoyed my LEAF, and I'm a little bummed that I will likely walk away from it at the end of my lease (in three years). My residual is $18k. I doubt the car will be worth that in three years, although it will likely have barely over 20,000 miles on it unless I change my driving habits. I'm not wealthy enough to keep leasing a $30k car every three years, and I doubt I'll justify buying a new one. It just kills me to take good care of my leased vehicle only for it to be carted off to auction while I shop for a used EV with an unknown history. Maybe I'm wrong-- I probably am-- but I feel that there is more potential trouble with buying a used EV than a used ICE because of the effects of dubious care of the battery. I wish there was some way to negotiate on the residual, but I understand why that's a bad idea for Nissan or any auto manufacturer. Such is life.

 

[LakeLeaf]

I see today that the competition - Telsa - now says that if you buy one of their cars and three years from now if it's value has declined faster then a high end Mercedes S class, they (well, Elon Musk) will buy it back.

Now if Nissan would only step up to that challenge on a car comparably priced to the Leaf - like their own Altima!

 

[evnow]

I see today that the competition - Telsa - now says that if you buy one of their cars and three years from now if it's value has declined faster then a high end Mercedes S class, they (well, Elon Musk) will buy it back.

Now if Nissan would only step up to that challenge on a car comparably priced to the Leaf - like their own Altima!

Elon is comparing to one of the worst cars - in terms of holding value. And it is not retroactive - and you have to take his financing. Why is that any different than if you leased a Leaf ?

12k Miles, 43% : Model S
15k Miles, 49% : Leaf

You want Nissan to change over to what Musk is offering ?

 

[edatoakrun]

I see today that the competition - Telsa - now says that if you buy one of their cars and three years from now if it's value has declined faster then a high end Mercedes S class, they (well, Elon Musk) will buy it back.

Now if Nissan would only step up to that challenge on a car comparably priced to the Leaf - like their own Altima!

Tesla is, as I understand it, guaranteeing a 43% residual after 36 months, including (I think?) the phantom depreciation caused by the $7,500 tax credit.

If you buy a Tesla S with an ~$80k price, it looks like you are guaranteed to have your car not lose more than~$38,000 ($45,600 less the $7500 tax credit) in value, over three years.

The absolute worst case for any LEAF owner over three years would probably be a buyer who paid ~$31,000 (~38,500 less the $7,500 tax credit) and sold it three years later for ~$15,000, or about ~$16,000 in depreciation costs.

Higher sales tax, registration fees, insurance, and maintenance, also raise the S's costs significantly higher, than this simple comparison.

Many LEAF buyers will do much better than that worst case, since they didn't pay $31,000 after lower purchase prices and all incentives are taken into account

With my discounted price and $5k CA rebate, I figure my own maximum loss due to depreciation on my LEAF over three years will be ~$6k, which will could be only slightly greater than the cash benefit I will have received from my LEAF, by using kWh rather than gasoline.

I could never have bought and driven any new ICEV over the same three year period, for anywhere near the low total cost of ownership, that my LEAF will give me.

But I expect the largest cost benefits from LEAF ownership will accrue from year three forward, since at some point, the yearly savings from avoiding gas purchases and higher ICEV maintenance costs, will probably actually exceed the LEAFs losses due to depreciation.

So, I may well decide to hold on to my 2011 LEAF for a long time...

 

[davewill]

I wish there was some way to negotiate on the residual, but I understand why that's a bad idea for Nissan or any auto manufacturer. Such is life.

You can't negotiate the residual, but there's nothing stopping you from making an offer to the dealer for purchasing the car after the return.

 

[Elephanthead]

I wish there was some way to negotiate on the residual, but I understand why that's a bad idea for Nissan or any auto manufacturer. Such is life.

You can't negotiate the residual, but there's nothing stopping you from making an offer to the dealer for purchasing the car after the return.

Except for the fact that the dealer doesn't become the owner of the car at that time. It is property of the finance company. You can drop it off at any dealer.

 

[evnow]

It would be interesting to see what Nissan does in a year or 2 as a large # of leased Leafs return. They can
- Refurbish the battery & sell
- Sell as is in other countries
- Let the market figure that out in US

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I wish there was some way to negotiate on the residual, but I understand why that's a bad idea for Nissan or any auto manufacturer. Such is life.

You can't negotiate the residual, but there's nothing stopping you from making an offer to the dealer for purchasing the car after the return.

Normally I would say the mfr leasing arm doing some special deal is out of the question, but the Leaf isn't a normal car. We might yet see some special program come down, but I really don't expect it, they'd probably rather take a huge loss on the old cars with the expectation of selling us more new ones. IMO it would depend on whether NMAC is concerned with having to find buyers for those cars, which isn't like finding a buyer for a commodity 3yr old Altima, not only do you have to find that special person, but you have to find thousands of them in a short period of time.

Never underestimate the capacity of a large bureaucracy to make suboptimal decisions by adhering strictly to the rules. My favorite American airlines story: There were four of us traveling and the first leg got into Dallas early on account of a strong tailwind. At the next gate there was a flight to our final destination that was just finishing boarding , so we figured what the heck (we didn't have checked bags) let's see if we can go on that one. They said they had 15 empty seats, but they wanted $75 each for us to go on that flight. We said screw that, so that flight left with a bunch of empty seats and we had lunch and went to the gate for our originally scheduled flight a couple hours later. You can probably guess what happened next... that flight was overbooked, and they were asked for (no kidding) four volunteers, offering $400 credit per person denied boarding compensation.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I have never heard of a leasing agency selling you the car you just returned for less than the stipulated residual.. not sure why, they probably are not setup to sell returns and it goes straight to the auction.

It depends on the company. For example, GMAC doesn't negotiate anymore, but NMAC still does. If they don't feel they can auction the car for close to residual or more, they will negotiate. The residual was obviously over-inflated for the LEAF (and still is), so I think if Nissan will be screwed if they have to take back all these cars.

So there IS a precedent, based on what you're saying. Interesting...

At this point I want to drive a Leaf when this one's lease is expired, but all the power seems in my court now. They negotiate much lower, or I buy another one instead.

Unless the $7500 federal credit evaporates before my lease is up, it's a certainty now that Nissan will take a massive loss on my car. Whether they offer residual at thousands off the $21k buy-out, or they don’t and take it in and then auction it (in which case they’ll still get thousands less than $21k), I’ll never be buying it out.