inside or outside charger? Benefits / disadvantages?

[prius2leaf]

I'm a new 2014 owner in Ottawa, Canada. Of course I have questions!

Welcome! You will find more info & opinions than you can imagine. Plan to read lots of previous threads on all your questions. It's all been asked & answered before, multiple times. Yes, you can charge outside and with L1 (especially for less than 100 km distances), but with Canadian winters, I wouldn't recommend it. Personally, in a very cold weather area I would always park in the garage and charge on a permanently mounted 6 KW L2 EVSE. This allows more heating and faster charging with the newer 2013/2014 models (except the "S" without QC package). Get and EVSE with a 25-ft cord, long enough so that you can reach the driveway during non-snow days. I don't want to wake up to a "cold-soaked" battery (which won't drive as far) and my cord coated with ice, stuck to the vehicle: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=11609&hilit=ice

Here's what one hardy Canadian did in extreme cold because he had to park outside: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15673

Other information you may find useful in your situation:
Wiki: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
L1/L2 charging & cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11506#p265550
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14906&hilit=+battery+heater
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&p=352567&hilit=fire#p352567
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15709&p=351357&hilit=+cold#p351344
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12702&p=289801&hilit=+wiki#p289729
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15709&p=351344&hilit=+welcome#p351344
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15705&p=351178&hilit=+welcome#p351178
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14756&p=333381&hilit=+welcome#p333381
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=10524&p=241340&hilit=welcome#p241340

Very helpful, thank-you!

 

[CRLeafSL]

I just wanted to add L2 all the way and don't even consider L1 with extreme cold conditions. I live in Iowa which has reached below -20 degrees F, counting the wind chill factor and if it wasn't for me having my EVSE upgraded by EVSEUpgrade to 240volt my car would have been useless. I don't have a garage so I have no choice other than outdoor charging and L1 would have been worthless. I still have very limited range with it being outdoors in those cold temps, but at lease it would recharge in 6 or 7 hours (keep in mind I have a 2012 with the 3.3K onboard charger, not the 6.6K one you have) otherwise L1 would be more like 14 to 16 hours at least. L2 at work is great but after you go to L2 at home, you won't go back to L1 again. Trust me, I know.

 

[Reddy]

....What about we go on a one month vacation in the depth of winter or in the heat of summer? We have less control over charge times with the 2014. My understanding is that it would be better to leave it plugged in in the garage at these times, but in that case won't it just stay at 100% all the time, which is bad?

I just re-read. No! No! No! Don't leave it plugged in. There is a known bug that drains the 12 V lead acid battery. Nissan may have fixed it in the 2014, but I wouldn't trust it. Charge to about 50%, unplug, connect a 12 V battery tender (or disconnect) and enjoy your vacation. It is best to leave the battery between 20% and 50% for long-term storage. More on these threads:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14747&p=333143&hilit=+vacation#p333143
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12216&p=281309&hilit=vacation#p281309

Edit: Did you see this thread on Eaton EVSEs? http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12467

 

[prius2leaf]

Edit: Did you see this thread on Eaton EVSEs? http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12467

I had not seen that. Ouch. If we are serious about the Eaton I guess a phone call to them first is in order.

I have no idea what to search for to pull out of this forum "preferred, most reliable and most afforable L2 EVSE". Thoughts?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I just wanted to add L2 all the way and don't even consider L1 with extreme cold conditions. I live in Iowa which has reached below -20 degrees F, counting the wind chill factor and if it wasn't for me having my EVSE upgraded by EVSEUpgrade to 240volt my car would have been useless. I don't have a garage so I have no choice other than outdoor charging and L1 would have been worthless. I still have very limited range with it being outdoors in those cold temps, but at lease it would recharge in 6 or 7 hours (keep in mind I have a 2012 with the 3.3K onboard charger, not the 6.6K one you have) otherwise L1 would be more like 14 to 16 hours at least. L2 at work is great but after you go to L2 at home, you won't go back to L1 again. Trust me, I know.

You're saying that L-1 would have been "worthless." Did you actually try it? My experience indicates that it takes a bit longer in those temps but still works, and also seems to keep the battery warm for much longer, because it is charging for much longer. I'm not suggesting it's better than L-2, but I think it's far from "worthless."

 

[dgpcolorado]

I do as bradbissell suggested and have mine mounted inside, near the garage door. When parked inside the garage I run the cord along the ceiling on bicycle hooks to drop down at the front of the LEAF. When parking outside I just put the cord under the edge of the garage door where there is a little gap and it doesn't get compressed or damaged in any way.

As for the hassle of opening and closing the door to get at the charge cable, that's easy: when parking outside just leave the cord outside. You can coil it to keep it out of the way and place a box over it to keep the snow and ice off. Then, no need to open the door at all unless you plan to park inside.

All that said, you will find your range improved when parking inside the garage in very cold weather (yes, really). It also helps with preheating the car and with not having to scrape snow and ice off the car in the morning. Up to you. Where I live, the downside of parking outside is that the deer mice colonized my LEAF (I trust that they enjoyed the ride...). Probably not a problem in a city.

 

[prius2leaf]

I do as bradbissell suggested and have mine mounted inside, near the garage door. When parked inside the garage I run the cord along the ceiling on bicycle hooks to drop down at the front of the LEAF. When parking outside I just put the cord under the edge of the garage door where there is a little gap and it doesn't get compressed or damaged in any way.

good to know someone else does this no problem. I can see when the garage door closes on the cable (of the trickle charger for the moment) that the cable moves so it does put some pressure on it, but normally I can squeeze my fingers under the edge of the garage door so it seems as if the cable *should* be able to pass without being damaged...

All that said, you will find your range improved when parking inside the garage in very cold weather (yes, really). It also helps with preheating the car and with not having to scrape snow and ice off the car in the morning. Up to you. Where I live, the downside of parking outside is that the deer mice colonized my LEAF (I trust that they enjoyed the ride...). Probably not a problem in a city.

Ok so if the car is fully charged in the am (and finishes charging just before you start your commute) how does having in inside the garage help with range? If range is dependent on it being warm and it being fully charged, shouldn't that work the same if it is indoors or outdoors? Note that my 2014 also has the thermal battery thing so that should help even more, right?

We live next to a park next to a river. Wildlife are plentiful as as city life goes, and there are certainly mice and rats and seriously bold squirrels outside. Is there a link to the deer mice story? Mice can cause SO MUCH DAMAGE to wiring, I'd like to read that story!

 

[TimLee]

Note that my 2014 also has the thermal battery thing so that should help even more, right?

We live next to a park next to a river. Wildlife are plentiful as as city life goes, and there are certainly mice and rats and seriously bold squirrels outside. Is there a link to the deer mice story? Mice can cause SO MUCH DAMAGE to wiring, I'd like to read that story!

The battery "thermal thing" is just to keep the battery from freezing. Only comes on and goes off at very low temperature. Not much impact on LEAF range or functionality unless VERY cold.

On a really cold day with snow or freezing rain you'll want to preheat your LEAF occupants area inside a garage, just easier to do than outside where you have more heat loss.

Curious about the mice problem too!!

I do remember a story about a Volt with wiring harness damage from animals a few years back.

 

[Graycenphil]

I know there are a million "better mousetraps" out there, but this is what has really worked for me on lawn mowers and generators: A few drops of pepermint oil in the area where you don't want them. Renew it when you can't smell the oil anymore, which might be after a few weeks.

The oil is expensive, but a little goes a longway and it is way better than mouse damage.

 

[gdiscenza]

I don't have a garage, and my Leaf is plugged in to a Bosch PowerMax 30A hardwired unit which is mounted to the side of my house right next to my power meter.

I don't worry much about theft, as it is hardwired to the house, and if I had concerns about someone using power without permission, I can turn off the dedicated circuit breaker from the panel.

G.D.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Ok so if the car is fully charged in the am (and finishes charging just before you start your commute) how does having in inside the garage help with range? If range is dependent on it being warm and it being fully charged, shouldn't that work the same if it is indoors or outdoors? Note that my 2014 also has the thermal battery thing so that should help even more, right?

As TimLee mentioned above, the battery heater is just to prevent it from freezing and does not ordinarily keep the battery warm. It comes on when the battery is at -20ºC and turns off at -10ºC (on the 2012 models, at least, not sure about 2013/2014 models). Unless you park for an extended time in ambient temperatures of less than -20ºC the battery heater won't even turn on.

The problem with a cold battery and range is that a cold battery has less capacity than a warmer one. Less capacity means that it holds less charge and that means fewer miles, other things being equal. The battery will heat somewhat during charging and, especially, during driving. Putting the car in a garage will help it retain heat better than parking it outside. Some of that is due to an attached garaged being somewhat warmer than ambient and some is due to protecting the car from the cooling effects of wind. So, if you are looking to get maximum range in very cold weather putting the car in an attached garage will help. It also makes preheating more effective since the car is somewhat warmer to begin with and the heating doesn't have to deal with the cooling effects of wind, ice, and snow.

If range isn't limiting, then you can ignore this and park outside and not worry about any of it. Be aware, however, that reduced battery capacity is just one of the effects of very cold weather on range. The others are heater use, a huge factor for those who just turn it on and let it run, and increased aerodynamic drag (cold air is more dense), and increased rolling resistance. Even if you are able to keep the battery warm your range in very cold weather will drop by a lot.

We live next to a park next to a river. Wildlife are plentiful as as city life goes, and there are certainly mice and rats and seriously bold squirrels outside. Is there a link to the deer mice story? Mice can cause SO MUCH DAMAGE to wiring, I'd like to read that story!

If you've been parking cars outside and haven't had trouble with critters colonizing them, then I wouldn't expect such problems with the LEAF. Where I live, a rural forest, deer mice in cars are a common problem when cars are parked outside or in garages that aren't well sealed. I even had a problem with a packrat that apparently rode into my garage in the LEAF, then got trapped in the garage and chewed up the garage door gasket trying to escape (unsuccessfully, they are very large). I eventually trapped it and put it outside:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2725&start=36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was reluctant to just leave the garage door open at night because I had spent several years eliminating all the deer mice from my garage (and attic) — I trapped 139 to do it — and I didn't want to let them back in. Last summer I parked outside to keep my LEAF battery cooler and the mice moved into the car. I eventually had to put mouse traps under the hood and next to each wheel and it took weeks to get them all. Mice nesting in cars is a common problem here: warm, sheltered from weather, protected from predators, what's not to like from the perspective of a small critter?

 

[dgpcolorado]

A couple more things about cold batteries: a very cold battery won't charge effectively and a very cold battery has reduced or no regen capability. If your battery gets so cold that it won't charge well, driving the car for a time should heat it up and allow charging to resume (after that, charging ought to keep the battery from cooling down rapidly). If you park outside in very cold weather, -12ºC or below, be aware of this. You might want to start charging when you get home and the battery is warmer from driving.

Just some things to consider in cold climates.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't have a garage, and my Leaf is plugged in to a Bosch PowerMax 30A hardwired unit which is mounted to the side of my house right next to my power meter.

I don't worry much about theft, as it is hardwired to the house, and if I had concerns about someone using power without permission, I can turn off the dedicated circuit breaker from the panel.

G.D.

The concern about theft isn't so much the whole EVSE as it is the actual charging cable - for the copper inside. Thieves will just cut it off.

 

[prius2leaf]

....What about we go on a one month vacation in the depth of winter or in the heat of summer? We have less control over charge times with the 2014. My understanding is that it would be better to leave it plugged in in the garage at these times, but in that case won't it just stay at 100% all the time, which is bad?

I just re-read. No! No! No! Don't leave it plugged in. There is a known bug that drains the 12 V lead acid battery. Nissan may have fixed it in the 2014, but I wouldn't trust it. Charge to about 50%, unplug, connect a 12 V battery tender (or disconnect) and enjoy your vacation. It is best to leave the battery between 20% and 50% for long-term storage. More on these threads:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14747&p=333143&hilit=+vacation#p333143
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12216&p=281309&hilit=vacation#p281309

Just resurrected one of those threads to ask a question, here:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12216&p=354438#p354438" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[prius2leaf]

If range isn't limiting, then you can ignore this and park outside and not worry about any of it. Be aware, however, that reduced battery capacity is just one of the effects of very cold weather on range. The others are heater use, a huge factor for those who just turn it on and let it run, and increased aerodynamic drag (cold air is more dense), and increased rolling resistance. Even if you are able to keep the battery warm your range in very cold weather will drop by a lot.

I really can't see this as a problem even if I only have a 50% charge in the am. My commute is extremely short, under 10 k, and I can charge at work if I need. As long as the car can start (which the battery warmer should ensure, really glad that is a 2014 feature) if I have any charge I will make it to work no problem.

Your rodent stories are ridiculous, do you have a cheese cellar in your garage ha ha? But that packrat was cute as a button!

 

[prius2leaf]

I don't have a garage, and my Leaf is plugged in to a Bosch PowerMax 30A hardwired unit which is mounted to the side of my house right next to my power meter.

I don't worry much about theft, as it is hardwired to the house, and if I had concerns about someone using power without permission, I can turn off the dedicated circuit breaker from the panel.

G.D.

Do you mind if I ask what is your climate?

I'm not really concerned about the electricity loss, more concerned about curious people (or, more likely, children) playing with the charger if it is outside and doing something stupid and getting hurt. They are likely to think it is a water hose as that is probably what it resembles the most in their eyes. And just damage to the unit from the elements.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm not really concerned about the electricity loss, more concerned about curious people (or, more likely, children) playing with the charger if it is outside and doing something stupid and getting hurt. They are likely to think it is a water hose as that is probably what it resembles the most in their eyes. And just damage to the unit from the elements.

The EVSE, IIRC, is designed to provide power to the cable only when it has communicated successfully with a vehicle, so the cable should be virtually "dead" otherwise. While I might share your concern about weather and long-term use of a portable EVSE outdoors, the ones designed for wall mounting are weatherproof for the long run.