TonyWilliams
Well-known member
LEAFfan said:
LEAF will take 48kW max. The Gidmeter shows 119.xx amps going in the battery for the bottom 50% of the charge.
I'm done with Quick Charging and Road Trips...
- Thread starter FairwoodRed
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LEAF will take 48kW max. The Gidmeter shows 119.xx amps going in the battery for the bottom 50% of the charge.
Stoaty said:I think you misunderstood--he said he would cut his arm off BEFORE doing the quick charge, not as a substitution. Of course, that would only allow two quick charges over his lifetime, unless he has a team of very skilled surgeons.davewill said:
The Official US Army expression is "I'd cut my dick off, etc. ..." (Apologies to guys here who are named Dick. I've heard this expression used many ways:
1. "... before I'd drive an RU-21 without a 'chute ..."
2. "... before I'd marry that skank of a colonel's daughter ..."
3. "... before I'd vote for (fill in the blank) ..."
4. "... before I'd do another tour at Ft Lewis ..."
5. "... before I'd buy a Chevy (Ford, Etc) ..."
As for me, " ... before I buy another ICE ..."
:lol:
FairwoodRed
Well-known member
Here is some follow up since my road trip last month. My gids have not been above 271, and seem to be trending lower (264 today). To my way of thinking, all those quick charges in one day cost me 5% capacity loss.
Since then, my friend wanted to try the trip and asked me to come along (I asked him if he was really sure he wanted to do this ). We made sure to let the battery rest before we left vs the late night timer charging I did on my trip. We made no side trips and did not charge in Portland either. That cut the QC's down to 6. We also spent 7 hours in Portland with the car parked in a garage to let it cool. We followed semi's to keep highway speed down to 60.
We hit 7 temp bars on the way down and that dropped to 6 before we headed back. On the trip back, we hit 9 temp bars on the last (#6) quickcharge.
All in all, much better than my trip. But looking at my capacity drop that coincided with my daytrip, and that fact I am counting on getting my 54 mile commute for several more years, I remain convinced that the risks of a daytrip to Portland do not outweigh the benefits.
Since then, my friend wanted to try the trip and asked me to come along (I asked him if he was really sure he wanted to do this
). We made sure to let the battery rest before we left vs the late night timer charging I did on my trip. We made no side trips and did not charge in Portland either. That cut the QC's down to 6. We also spent 7 hours in Portland with the car parked in a garage to let it cool. We followed semi's to keep highway speed down to 60.We hit 7 temp bars on the way down and that dropped to 6 before we headed back. On the trip back, we hit 9 temp bars on the last (#6) quickcharge.
All in all, much better than my trip. But looking at my capacity drop that coincided with my daytrip, and that fact I am counting on getting my 54 mile commute for several more years, I remain convinced that the risks of a daytrip to Portland do not outweigh the benefits.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
If I'm at 6 temp bars before a QC, it will go to 8 bars after a '100%' charge (2 QCs) and 9 bars if I'm at 7 before the QCs.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
CWO4Mann said:
hey!! you do realise that JBLM is the "home of ZERO battery degradation!"
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
LEAFfan said:
i almost never QC above 75% and i QC'd 4 times the other day. never went above 6 TBs
LEAFer
Well-known member
Good advice. Don't QC until you need to (low SOC) (i.e. skip one if you can (as in OR on I-5 they are every ~25miles)), but also don't fill up until you need to. If you require a higher SOC use QC to get there most of the way, but above 75 or 80% switch to L2, or postpone the L2 until you've driven a little further.DaveinOlyWA said:
Speaking of driving: keep the kW low ( especially after a QC ) to not further exacerbate the heating.
Take a little time studying my Oregon Trip Report: a) I skipped a QC, using L2 only to stay with a published schedule; b) I aborted the final QC due to high current (IMHO) at higher SOC and switched to L2.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
oh i need to clarify. i never QC to over 75%. i dont because i have 2 in the area (add one about 30 miles north and 30 miles West and i be golden) so i only QC the bottom 2/3rds of the pack.
normally i stop around 65% because that is when the rate of charge slows down. i figure if the car sees fit to slow down, i am gonna take the hint and stop.
now its easy for me because i have them in my area. just need to get them out there!
normally i stop around 65% because that is when the rate of charge slows down. i figure if the car sees fit to slow down, i am gonna take the hint and stop.
now its easy for me because i have them in my area. just need to get them out there!
LEAFer
Well-known member
@Dave: My intent was to add some info/advice to the comments you had already made for the benefit of FairwoodRed.DaveinOlyWA said:
Herm
Well-known member
So everyone that uses regen braking can potentially do as much damage as daily QC?
That B setting on the shifter is evil then.
That B setting on the shifter is evil then.
Stoaty
Well-known member
Where are you getting this from? A few minutes (at most) of 10-20 kw recharging from regen braking? Why don't you ask abasile, who has close to 100% battery pack capacity, and has made many trips down the mountain with 4,000-5,000 feet elevation loss and extensive use of regenerative braking the whole way down? Please don't spread this sort of false info, even as a question or jokingly.Herm said:
derkraut
Well-known member
+1----I'm getting discouraged by the amount of "conjecture", "opinions presented as fact", and just plain false information being posted here. The "herd mentality" seems to have gotten out of control. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:Stoaty said:
smkettner
Well-known member
Why do you think it is limited to the B setting?Herm said:
ztanos
Well-known member
derkraut said:
Do we have proof that this is just conjecture? Just curious. You have data backing up that me using regen at all won't shorten the life of the battery even by minutes or seconds every time I use it? I would love to see the data and the testing procedures that you have obtained to get to this conclusion.
Stoaty
Well-known member
As I said in my previous post, there is a real life example: abasile uses massive amounts of regen every time he drives down from the mountains. After a year, he was still getting 281 gids. That is good enough for me that regen can't be having much of an effect (by itself, don't know about if your battery pack is already at 115 degrees F.). Use the information or not, it is up to you.ztanos said:
widgetboy
Active member
rpmdk said:
Does anyone expect to have the option of just replacing the battery pack in 5-8 years with better batteries vs buying a new vehicle?
ztanos
Well-known member
Stoaty said:
Ok, now do you have any proof that QCs are bad?
Stoaty
Well-known member
I doubt that QCs are bad unless they raise the battery temperature enough that it goes into the 7 bar or higher range. The Phoenix folks say that they have 6 bars when the battery is "cool" and generally go to 7 bars for a substantial part of the day out in the heat (using just L2 charging). In my opinion, with 7 bars (= 98.2 degrees F. and above) your Leaf has a fever, and having a fever is not good for the battery pack. The longer your Leaf has a fever, and the higher the fever goes, the worse it is for the pack. We know from a previous post that a constant battery pack temp of 90 degrees F. compared to 72 degrees F. decreases battery life from 8 years to 5 years (I believe this was for a similar battery chemistry, but not specifically for the Leaf). Surfingslovak can probably provide the relevant link to a post here on MNL (I am too lazy to try to look it up). There is no good way to quantify or prove my hypothesis, but it certainly fits with the empirical evidence from Phoenix. I haven't ever done a QC and never will--because I bought an SV model. Perhaps others who have done QC and had their Leaf go to 7, 8 or 9 bars can comment on the effect on battery capacity, assuming they have done a number of QC, of course.ztanos said:
GaslessInSeattle
Well-known member
- Joined
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just as a reminder, I drove Tony's Leaf from Seattle to Portland, part of the way back to it's home. After being heavily QC'ed to the point of 10 battery temp bars on the way up here, the car charged up to 279 gids after balancing in my garage. I would not recommend anyone purposefully overheating the battery and it's probably still good to limit QC'ing somewhat, but I don't think it's worth worrying about too much. I personally don't think what has caused dramatic loss in AZ has anything to do with charging habits. QC'ing a lot likly does increase the "normal" rate of decline, but I suspect it will turn out to be some small fraction.
What is happening in extremely hot locals is by far, on an order of dramatic magnitude, due to some critical threshold of high ambient temps being reached, IMHO. Don't forget, people literally bake cookies in their parked cars in AZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0lgg_qKaqw. With the inside of a car parked in the AZ sun reaching 180 degrees F after a few hours, you can pretty much assume the battery is being exposed to very high heat.
I think we all need to take a deep breath and let this play out for a while before getting OCD about charging habits if you don't live in one of these areas.
What is happening in extremely hot locals is by far, on an order of dramatic magnitude, due to some critical threshold of high ambient temps being reached, IMHO. Don't forget, people literally bake cookies in their parked cars in AZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0lgg_qKaqw. With the inside of a car parked in the AZ sun reaching 180 degrees F after a few hours, you can pretty much assume the battery is being exposed to very high heat.
I think we all need to take a deep breath and let this play out for a while before getting OCD about charging habits if you don't live in one of these areas.
planet4ever
Well-known member
If by "better" you mean a battery that has, for example, better heat tolerance, then I think that is quite possible. But better range? I consider that a pipe dream. Even if you could find higher capacity battery modules that would fit in the existing space, I suspect you would have to replace electronic equipment, and you would surely need to reprogram a number of computers. The installation sounds like a nightmare. I think it would be cheaper to buy a new car.widgetboy said:
Ray
