I want my 281!

[Boomer23]

This year. Sorry that wasn't clear.

I had readings at 100% usually of 281 Gid since last September, when I got the Gidmeter, with fluctuations down to maybe as low as 276 and sometimes lower seemingly correlated to starting at a low SOC before charging, but it always came back to 280 or 281 within a few days.

 

[vegastar]

My gid numbers are also going down. The last time I saw 231 gids on a 80% charge was on May 25. Today, June 2, I got 220 gids. The fall has been gradual, one gid at a time. The last 100% charge I got 272gids@393V on June 23 (225 gids on a 80% charge the day before). I'm starting to fill gid anxiety. When will the fall stop/slow down?

 

[sparky]

I have more Gid losses to report. I'm now down to 257 Gid on a 100% charge and 217 Gid on an 80% charge.

Here are my June Gid counts in chronological order. I'll add the voltage on the last charge on each list:

80% charges: 223, 223, 223, 223, 222, 222, 221, 221, 221, 221, 220, 221, 220, 220, 219, 217, 217 (June 29 early AM, 387 Volts (EDIT, fixed error, I originally said voltage was 357))

100% charges: 268, 270, 265, 268, 270*, 269, 265, 266, 260, 257 (July 1 early AM, 393 Volts)

My mileage is about the same (15K), climate is similar to Boomer's and my LEAF is 18 mos old. No loss of capacity bar.
Although my 100% numbers are pretty much like Boomer's with the same recent sharp decrease, my 80% numbers rarely dip below 227.
Yesterday I had 231 / 388.5V at 80%.
Not sure if it means anything but all my 80% voltages are higher than Boomer's (388-388.5)

Gids / Volts at 100% charge for past 30 days.
June 1 265 / 393.5
June 2 263 / 393.5
June 3 268 / 393
June 9 264 / 393
June 10 265 / 393
June 16 262 / 393
July 2 267 / 393.5

 

[Nekota]

Edmond...
How are you measuring the Battery Pack temperature?

I considered putting a temp. sensor on the upper surface
of the Battery Box, near the rear, probably in the center,
possibly accessed through the Emergency Off hatch in the
rear-seat foot-space.

However, I have not yet done that.

Thanks, Gary

I'm collecting battery temperatures from the Emergency Off hatch with a temperature logging device http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-500-Series.aspx just behind the connector and attached with some 3M heavy duty fasteners, the cabin temperature at knee level and the inverter. Maybe during the 4th I will get some spare time to summarize the data from the past 6 weeks.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Temp data that I am very interested in is while driving with ambient 100 or higher. There is about 6 h delay in battery response to ambient without drastic differences in ambient temp while in garage. My car is parked all time so no drive data. Car that is in use last time had 272 GID, it is 2 mo old and have 2KM as of now. Temp around 100 will be here for a while so we will pull temp data from logger once we see changes in GID numbers

 

[Boomer23]

I just took my LEAF to turtle in the interest of increasing the general knowledge base about pack capacity reduction and actual range impact.

My last (and first) turtle experience was on April 14, 2011, two weeks after bringing the car home, and before I had a Gid meter. Range from 100% charge to turtle was 86.5 miles at an indicated energy economy on the main dash of 4.0 mi/kWh. Turtle announcement came on about .3 miles before I stopped the car.

Today's readings are 75.0 miles range at 4.1 mi/kWh. Gid reading at the end of the run was 5 Gids (1.7%). Turtle indicator lit as I was pulling into the garage. Gid reading at the beginning of day was 258 (91.8%).

So I'm calculating a range reduction of 13.3%, minimum. Actual range reduction is probably very slightly more since today's mi/kWh was slightly higher and I stopped the car slightly sooner. Still, my 75 mile range is slightly better than the EPA rating for the LEAF.

Other data on my car:
Mieage: 14,372 mi
Age: Car delivered 3/30/11, slightly more than 15 months old.
I have not lost a capacity bar.
Most frequent charging percent: 100% until mid-May, 2012, when I changed to 80% charging most frequently.
Quick Charges: twice
Location: Coastal Southern Calif
Overall energy efficiency measured at wall: 3.22 mi/kWh, lifetime

I generally got a full 280 to 281 Gids at full charge until early May, 2012, when I started to notice a decline in Gids, as outlined up-thread.

Most recent three Gid readings at full charge were 257 (91.4%), 266 (94.6%) and 258 (91.8%).
Max capacity loss by Gid reading: 8.5%

Charging energy required to charge to 100% from turtle on April 14, 2011 measured by TED system: 26.1 kWh
I'll update this thread tomorrow with charging energy after recharging to 100%.
Update: full charge overnight went to 265 Gid (94.3%) and took 21.7 kWh from the wall.

So how do we measure capacity loss?
75 miles to turtle vs. 86.5 miles when the car was new? 13.3% capacity loss?
Averaging Gids to full charge? Mean of 263 Gid (includes most recent charge) on three consecutive days full charges vs 281 Gid: 6.4% capacity loss?
Energy from wall to recharge from turtle? 21.7 kWh vs 26.1 when new: 16.9% capacity loss?

I guess I'd go with the actual driving range figure.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Boomer, this is what I am unofficially seeing too.. On Friday, I got home with VLBW at 72 miles w/ 4.2 on the dash. Luckily I didn't have to go to base or there is a possibility that I wouldn't have made it home from work. When I first started I would have 8 miles or so left at 4.2 on the dash after 72 miles. I do feel like on days that I can't charge at work and have to go to base (4 mi RT), I'll have to drive home at 55mph.. That is NOT why I bought the Leaf, in addition to the Green and the cost savings, I bought it for the carpool lane. If I can't even use it for half my commute, then maybe it's time to trade in the Leaf. Something I'm not interested in.

I wonder how Nissan will feel if I call Roadside assistance on the way home from work and ask them to meet me two miles from my house and tow me home every day?

 

[LEAFer]

I wonder how Nissan will feel if I call Roadside assistance on the way home from work and ask them to meet me two miles from my house and tow me home every day?

:!: If you do it "gradual" so that it is "expected" ... even as the two miles increases gradually in the future :lol:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

For the first time ever I got my 281!

Seen 280 dozens of times but never 100% SOC

 

[Herm]

For the first time ever I got my 281!
Seen 280 dozens of times but never 100% SOC

No degradation at all with 17k miles?.. you are cruel

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

For the first time ever I got my 281!
Seen 280 dozens of times but never 100% SOC

No degradation at all with 17k miles?.. you are cruel

actually have over 18,300 miles. pic above is all time record that happened Sat of going to 6.9 miles before losing my first battery bar. that charge was only 274 GID

 

[mkjayakumar]

Dave: I see that you are at 18 months of ownership with 18K miles, with zero capacity loss...! Thats great..

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

with the temperature relationship in full swing beginning to wonder if this 281 is due to a relatively large termperature swing. was camping yesterday, got home around 6 PM and ambient temps were near 90º. i did not plug in car until 11 PM and garage was still 81º

get up this morning and temps are in mid 50's and charge was completed at 4:35 AM.

now supposing i actually charged to my normal 276-280 and the temperature rise to the upper 60's was the reason it read 281?

 

[TomT]

Living in a cool climate is good for you ... if you are a Leaf!

Dave: I see that you are at 18 months of ownership with 18K miles, with zero capacity loss...! Thats great..

 

[Brightonuk]

281 Ha! All I get these days is 245 on every charge even if I try to re charge after it shuts off 245 that’s it I am lucky to get 75 miles outta her my average now is 68 to 73

Still love the car just a bit disappointed on the mileage after 8 months of ownership and 13k miles

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

after 20,500 miles i started seeing degradation. the GID count is now bouncing all over the place. i was at 275 then did some hot weather charging experiments and actually went down as low as 263 then after it cooled off i bounced back to 269 and sat there a while then 272 then up the 277 on Sunday. today it was back to 272. so looks like i have some degradation. either way, 280 or 281 is probably gone for good

 

[pchilds]

after 20,500 miles i started seeing degradation. the GID count is now bouncing all over the place. i was at 275 then did some hot weather charging experiments and actually went down as low as 263 then after it cooled off i bounced back to 269 and sat there a while then 272 then up the 277 on Sunday. today it was back to 272. so looks like i have some degradation. either way, 280 or 281 is probably gone for good

:roll:

 

[hill]

It begs the question:
"What will the highest mileage/age to see 281. I'll see 18 months in just a few weeks and we're still good to go. But on the other hand, no one would NOT want to baby their traction packs the way we have

Living in a cool climate is good for you ... if you are a Leaf!

Dave: I see that you are at 18 months of ownership with 18K miles, with zero capacity loss...! Thats great..

 

[edatoakrun]

after 20,500 miles i started seeing degradation. the GID count is now bouncing all over the place. i was at 275 then did some hot weather charging experiments and actually went down as low as 263 then after it cooled off i bounced back to 269 and sat there a while then 272 then up the 277 on Sunday. today it was back to 272. so looks like i have some degradation. either way, 280 or 281 is probably gone for good

It sounds to me that what you have actually observed is that gid count is limited by higher temperatures, just as TickTock has been reporting for almost a year:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An7gtcYL2Oy0dHNwVmRkNkFnaEVOQTVENW5mOTZlb0E&pli=1#gid=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't see that you can determine, from observing the gid count alone, whether this gid behavior reflects, all or in part, battery "degradation", temperature-variable gid Wh values, the functioning of the LEAF BMS, or any of the many other possibilities.

 

[Stanton]

after 20,500 miles i started seeing degradation. the GID count is now bouncing all over the place. i was at 275 then did some hot weather charging experiments and actually went down as low as 263 then after it cooled off i bounced back to 269 and sat there a while then 272 then up the 277 on Sunday. today it was back to 272. so looks like i have some degradation. either way, 280 or 281 is probably gone for good

It sounds to me that what you have actually observed is that gid count is limited by higher temperatures, just as TickTock has been reporting for almost a year:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An7gtcYL2Oy0dHNwVmRkNkFnaEVOQTVENW5mOTZlb0E&pli=1#gid=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't see that you can determine, from observing the gid count alone, whether this gid behavior reflects, all or in part, battery "degradation", temperature-variable gid Wh values, the functioning of the LEAF BMS, or any of the many other possibilities.

Agreed: this is the "$64k question" that won't be answered until we get through the summer. I have started to see a range increase as temps have cooled here even though I suspect I've experienced some capacity loss.