How fast is the public charging network being built-out ?

[davewill]

And where can you recharge a LEAF or any other BEV with a 12 kWh or 19 kWh on-board charger? Not using the J 1772 L2 network. So, we we should put a third charge port on every BEV, and another network of (less slow) AC stations in?

Why "reinvent the Wheel" by putting a (probably) less efficient and slower charger in each EV, when DC charging is faster and cheaper, when the cost is calculated over the entire fleet?

The J1772 L2 standard is, in fact, specifically designed for 19 kWh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

...

I don't think edatoakrun was saying that J1772 can't do higher rates, but was pointing out that the public L2 infrastructure is being built with only 6.6kW charging capacity.

 

[edatoakrun]

And where can you recharge a LEAF or any other BEV with a 12 kWh or 19 kWh on-board charger? Not using the J 1772 L2 network. So, we we should put a third charge port on every BEV, and another network of (less slow) AC stations in?

Why "reinvent the Wheel" by putting a (probably) less efficient and slower charger in each EV, when DC charging is faster and cheaper, when the cost is calculated over the entire fleet?

The J1772 L2 standard is, in fact, specifically designed for 19 kWh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

"round connector design by Yazaki which allows for an increased power delivery of up to 19.2 kW delivered via single phase 120–240 V AC at up to 80 amperes."

So, yes, the EVSE's would need 100 amp service, and the chargers on the car updated to 19.2kW.

The issue with 480 volts makes L3 quite limited to where it could be installed.

You make a good point that a J 1772 network COULD be built (if it becomes UL certified) for 19 kWh charging. But it has not been done, and has not been planned. Aren't all existing J 1772 public chargers installed nationwide now limited to 6.6 kWh?

And other than than Tesla, are any BEV manufactures planning on-board chargers exceeding 6.6 kWh?

It seems Oregon hasn't had a problem locating 480 volts service, to install DC chargers, even in rural areas.

I don't understand the apparent desire to develop explanations for avoiding using the DC port every 2012 LEAF and MIEV will have...

 

[davewill]

Aren't all existing J 1772 public chargers installed nationwide now limited to 6.6 kWh?

And other than than Tesla, are any BEV manufactures planning on-board chargers exceeding 6.6 kWh?...

I'm pretty sure there are 70a Tesla stations that have been converted to J1772...Yeah, here's a list, there might be more by now:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3093-Nissan-Leaf?p=70094#post70094

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

it is a given that people who dont own a Leaf are fully aware of its value as a main source of transportation so the buildup of public charging is needed to help them with their range anxiety issues.

now in my area; i have been using public charging for more than 4 years. in my Zenn, it was required. the car simply did not have the range to do what i needed it to do and having the public charging already in place was the biggest reason i bought the car.

so having the stations in public really gives much more exposure to the technology itself and will only help generate the real interest in going electric.

what people will realize after the purchase is that they will rarely use the public charging and simply because they dont/wont need it. but that is ok. because by that time, the infrastructure will have done its job.

now, dont think i am implying the network is not needed because it is. with no network, there is possible market of 15-20 million EVs. with a fully developed network, the numbers rise to 40-60 million EVs.

but that is still a niche, but a niche that could handle more than 30% of our regular transportation needs and that much synergy will encourage many more options that will bring in many more people. how far down the road is a viable EV truck?

 

[davewill]

...but that is still a niche, but a niche that could handle more than 30% of our regular transportation needs and that much synergy will encourage many more options that will bring in many more people. how far down the road is a viable EV truck?

Not only that, but if that niche can get over 50% (and 90% for a large number of individuals), I think that public transportation for longer ranges becomes a more feasible/desirable alternative for travel outside the "niche".

If I can get to where I can use my LEAF for everything but a handful of trips a year, and I can take public transport and rent an EV at my destination for those times, it's certainly cheaper than maintaining an ICE.

 

[edatoakrun]

Aren't all existing J 1772 public chargers installed nationwide now limited to 6.6 kWh?

And other than than Tesla, are any BEV manufactures planning on-board chargers exceeding 6.6 kWh?...

I'm pretty sure there are 70a Tesla stations that have been converted to J1772...Yeah, here's a list, there might be more by now:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3093-Nissan-Leaf?p=70094#post70094

Thanks for the info.

Does the list here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?s=1dba01cd76bc5afb0d3cfae4dac28ae1&attachmentid=1966&d=1307902631

Include all CA "tesla" charge-points?

Any updates/additions to the dozen+ shown?

AFAIK, the two I-5 stations north of Sacramento, at Orland and Yreka, are still not updated to J-1772.

 

[TEG]

I don't think there is anything more up to date than that table in the thread on TMC.
You might want to ask the same question there.

 

[LEAFer]

The I-5 corridor Tesla HPCs from Coalinga/Harris Ranch to Yreka, CA and beyond (OR/WA) remain with Tesla connector, AFAIK.

Also see http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3974-PIA-Blog-Tesla-Trippin?p=78080&viewfull=1#post78080 , although he does not mention very explicitly whether the connectors are J- or Tesla-plug. I do know the Woodland (being I-5) is Tesla, but the Davis & Fairfield (being I-80 and PG&E installed originally) are converted to J-plug. Yreka and Orland are Tesla for sure, further north ... not 100% sure.

 

[ht2]

I don't understand the apparent desire to develop explanations for avoiding using the DC port every 2012 LEAF and MIEV will have...

+1.

IMHO 30 DC chargers in SF bay area is more useful for opportunity charging then 300 L2 charge stations.

 

[evmike]

I agree. I think only home and work make sense for L2 chargers.

For travel you need DC fast charge. That is what the port was designed to do.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't understand the apparent desire to develop explanations for avoiding using the DC port every 2012 LEAF and MIEV will have...

I don't think anybody is 'splainin' anything away. We absolutely need the 480 volt infrastructure L3's. California should be leading the way, but we're not even close. Folks are L3 charging right now in Oregon, Japan, UK, and I don't know where else.

Yes, ranches had 480 volts where I grew up for water pumps (actually, they were about the same 80hp as the LEAF!). But, that was far from a cheap ordeal. My cousin pays about $20k per year for that juice, too, in addition to a six figure amount for the infrastructure.

I think we'll take whatever we get, because we have little control. If I could just get some BASIC information of where my tax dollars intends to place the L3's in San Diego, I'd be pretty happy :mrgreen:

 

[adric22]

I would be thrilled just to see a few L2 chargers around here in Dallas/Ft.Worth. I believe we have 2 of them and both are on the opposite side of town that I never go to.

 

[edatoakrun]

I don't understand the apparent desire to develop explanations for avoiding using the DC port every 2012 LEAF and MIEV will have...

+1.

IMHO 30 DC chargers in SF bay area is more useful for opportunity charging then 300 L2 charge stations.

But wouldn't it be even better to have most of California's first DC stations placed on I-5 and other major highways, as Washington and Oregon are doing?

Won't you be able to reach most destinations within the Bay area or LA area on your "home" overnight charge? Aren't expensive DC stations, selling more expensive and more polluting peak power, best suited for longer drives, where they are required?

Of course, I live 25 miles from I-5, and 200 miles from the Bay area, so I may be less than objective on this subject...

 

[shay]

I would be thrilled just to see a few L2 chargers around here in Dallas/Ft.Worth. I believe we have 2 of them and both are on the opposite side of town that I never go to.

Here is a map that Pipcecil created for the metroplex: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=211891722519472891922.0004a754eab81f5c0cf11&msa=0&ll=32.916485,-96.860962&spn=1.49404,2.90863

 

[rpmdk]

"But wouldn't it be even better to have most of California's first DC stations placed on I-5 and other major highways, as Washington and Oregon are doing?

Won't you be able to reach most destinations within the Bay area or LA area on your "home" overnight charge? Aren't expensive DC stations, selling more expensive and more polluting peak power, best suited for longer drives, where they are required?

Of course, I live 25 miles from I-5, and 200 miles from the Bay area, so I may be less than objective on this subject..."


I personally have no intention of bumping my way along the I-5 hopping from charge station to charge station until I have at least 180 real world highway miles in the battery - even then I'd probably rent an ICE for the trip - it's really not practical for those of us with limited vacation or travel time.

whereas a city infrastructure does make more sense to me at least

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I don't understand the apparent desire to develop explanations for avoiding using the DC port every 2012 LEAF and MIEV will have...

+1.

IMHO 30 DC chargers in SF bay area is more useful for opportunity charging then 300 L2 charge stations.

But wouldn't it be even better to have most of California's first DC stations placed on I-5 and other major highways, as Washington and Oregon are doing?

Won't you be able to reach most destinations within the Bay area or LA area on your "home" overnight charge? Aren't expensive DC stations, selling more expensive and more polluting peak power, best suited for longer drives, where they are required?

Of course, I live 25 miles from I-5, and 200 miles from the Bay area, so I may be less than objective on this subject...

I agree, the first wave of charging station installations should be focused on getting L3 in strategic places along major arterials with the aim to link major metro areas. Most charging happens at home and work which is pretty easy to fulfil, it seems the next priority would be the occasional longer distance jaunt. Originally I imagined needing to charge a little here and a little there, everywhere I went. Now that I see the dreaded range anxiety for the paper tiger that it is, I imagine the network involving a smaller number of higher power charging stations placed with sergical precision, very carefully, exactly where there will be the bulk of need. The more I drive this car, the more I wonder what the true need for a charging network will actually be. Until the Leaf has double or triple the range, the metro driving to which it's most suited can be completely satisfied with the charging station in the garage for most of us. I would hate to think that a bunch of L2 and even some L1 charging stations are being installed only to have them go largely unused down the line. Even more so, this equation is going to quickly shift as soon as larger battery packs become affordable along with charging stations that are even faster than today's L3.

Seems like we need the results of the EV project before we can even really understand the needs and it also seems that the EV project should be keeping close tabs on our ICE cars as well, to better understand when, where and why we opt to use them over EV. I would hate to see misappropriated resources early on lead to a scarcity of needed resources later, just adding cannon fodder to the EV/Gov spending haters.

 

[surfingslovak]

ChargePoint has recently updated their station map, here are some of the stats:

SF Bay: +119 (Googleplex mostly)
NYC: +51
Seattle: +29
DC: +21
SoCal: +14
Portland: +7

In related news, Oregon Department of Transportation announced a $2 million federal stimulus grant to finance 22 fast-charging stations in smaller cities in the northwestern corner of the state last Thursday.

 

[EVDRIVER]

SF, no real public charging, 90% city permitted and private and one expensive paid lot with one unit. Pathetic and shameful for a city like this at this point in the game. SF as an EV leader, only in PR. There are more public stations in one mall in the burbs then all of SF. "El que no llora no mama"

 

[surfingslovak]

SF, no real public charging, 90% city permitted and private and one expensive paid lot with one unit. Pathetic and shameful for a city like this at this point in the game. SF as an EV leader, only in PR. There are more public stations in one mall in the burbs then all of SF. "El que no llora no mama"

Yes, this is true. L2 and L3 infrastructure in SF is inadequate. The City supposedly paid for L2s at SFO airport, which I'm fond of, and they may have to be given credit for that. I live in South Bay, work close to the Googleplex, and it's better down here. Although I'm hoping for a substantially higher number of stations in the near future.

 

[mbutter]

Need some L3's on the highways!

After almost 3 1/2 months of ownership, I have never needed an L2 in town yet! (I'm sure my day is coming though)