Gov Brown Settles w NRG - $100,000,000 of EVSE's for CA!!!!

[EricBayArea]

I hope the money is put to good use soon, I really do. With that said, I can almost hear it now...

...The State of California has decided to partner with Ecotality and Blink because of their exceptional job on the Federally funded EV Project..."

 

[Nubo]

...
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that these entities establish benchmarks to help achieve by 2020:
.
.
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•     Electric vehicle charging will be integrated into the electricity grid; and
•     The private sector’s role in the supply chain for zero-emission vehicle component development and manufacturing State will be expanding.
 

I hope this means doing away with the obstructionist and obfuscatory rate structures and requirements that are currently making it such a royal p.i.t.a. for someone to get TOU metering for their EV. I'm talking to you, PG&E. Millions of EVs means people better well be charging a lot of them at night. Something that just won't happen with $.55/kWH rates hanging like the Sword of Damocles over their heads.

 

[EricBayArea]

I hope this means doing away with the obstructionist and obfuscatory rate structures and requirements that are currently making it such a royal p.i.t.a. for someone to get TOU metering for their EV. I'm talking to you, PG&E. Millions of EVs means people better well be charging a lot of them at night. Something that just won't happen with $.55/kWH rates hanging like the Sword of Damocles over their heads.

I'm not intending to derail this thread, but what are you talking about? I have TOU with PG&E and I pay a whole lot less than that and it was very simple to setup - just call (E9-A)

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

In about one year of EV ownership I've gone from dreaming about tens of thousands of L1 and L2 charging stations to thinking mostly L3. I hope you guys get the message across about focusing on CHAdeMO L3 and dealing with the demand charge issue!!!! (F' the SAE!) As soon as there is a solid backbone of L3, people will buy a lot more EV's and then the private sector will flesh the bones with L2.

Some of this money SHOULD be used to build out the I5 electric highway that OR and WA have actually acted upon and CA has yet to give more than lip service to.

And the 1-80, the I-10, and several other QC Electric Highways, IMO.

But instead, most of the $ may go to putting L2's, in McDonalds' parking lots.

I agree. They got the numbers backward. This should have put almost all the money toward DCQC instead of L2. Public money should be toward DCQC and private money toward L2 for folks at work, and businesses who want to attract customers. But hey, 200 DCQC will go a long way to letting us get around. I'd love to be able to drive to SF and Tahoe since those are two places I visit regularly and would love to be able to take my Leaf.

 

[smkettner]

I hope this means doing away with the obstructionist and obfuscatory rate structures and requirements that are currently making it such a royal p.i.t.a. for someone to get TOU metering for their EV. I'm talking to you, PG&E. Millions of EVs means people better well be charging a lot of them at night. Something that just won't happen with $.55/kWH rates hanging like the Sword of Damocles over their heads.

I'm not intending to derail this thread, but what are you talking about? I have TOU with PG&E and I pay a whole lot less than that and it was very simple to setup - just call (E9-A)

55 cents kWh is the summer on peak rate for SCE cutomers with EV-TOU whole house rate program.
But not to worry I get 1/3 at 11 cents and 2/3 at 17 cents for super off peak 12a to 6a. :x
Can't even the super off peak meet the national average???? :x
We are being robbed I say.

I have no doubts somehow SCE will find a way to work their share of the settlement into what we pay.

 

[Nubo]

I hope this means doing away with the obstructionist and obfuscatory rate structures and requirements that are currently making it such a royal p.i.t.a. for someone to get TOU metering for their EV. I'm talking to you, PG&E. Millions of EVs means people better well be charging a lot of them at night. Something that just won't happen with $.55/kWH rates hanging like the Sword of Damocles over their heads.

I'm not intending to derail this thread, but what are you talking about? I have TOU with PG&E and I pay a whole lot less than that and it was very simple to setup - just call (E9-A)

I've been over this before. It is not simple if you cannot get the rest of your usage to fit into the hydra-headed and punitive rate structure which tops out somewhere around $.55 if you are on TOU and reach that tier for your other usage. The other option is a second meter, which turns out to be ridiculous. Please let's not get into a discussion of how we could modify and moderate our home's energy profile or install Solar. Simply put, TOU vehicle charging rates don't work for everyone. They should. TOU rates punish those who otherwise would be trying to do the right thing, and that's a shame.

If widespread adoption is going to fit into the infrastructure, everyone who charges at home should have a clear path to realize a substantial savings if they charge at night -- regardless of their circumstances, without consulting an Excel Macro or spending hours researching rate structures, without digging and trenching, and without juggling the rest of their lives around the attempt. It has to be stone cold simple and guaranteed -- not the carnival game it currently is.

 

[davewill]

... If widespread adoption is going to fit into the infrastructure, everyone who charges at home should have a clear path to realize a substantial savings if they charge at night -- regardless of their circumstances, without consulting an Excel Macro or spending hours researching rate structures, without digging and trenching, and without juggling the rest of their lives around the attempt. It has to be stone cold simple and guaranteed -- not the carnival game it currently is.

The only way that would occur is if they forced everyone onto TOU. Otherwise every person who can't or won't shift usage off-peak will simply opt out of TOU.

 

[EricBayArea]

Okay. Thanks for the reply Nubo. I understand what you were saying.

Now back on topic - crossing my fingers for affordable L3. Perhaps I'll write the Governato...er... Governor.

 

[scottf200]

Interesting facebook exchanged:

Chelsea Sexton (her thread)

Not so much a "settlement" for Californians as a gift to NRG Energy. Holy crap, what a corrupt arrangement. Really starting to think Jerry Brown doesn't like EVs or their drivers.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2012/03/23/california-to-build-a-100m-electric-car-charging-network/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jim Hamilton

WTH?!?!? NRG owns eVgo and THEY'RE the ones getting the money to put in the chargers? How the heck does THAT work?

That's like letting Bernie Madoff loan his victims their money back while charging them interest!

Don't get me wrong, more charging stations would be nice, but this deal smells quite a bit.....
23 minutes ago

Chelsea Sexton

exactly- not to mention that when combined w all the infrastructure the EV Project is supposed to place, it's way too much charging for the near term. Too much is worse than too little.

 

[Nubo]

... If widespread adoption is going to fit into the infrastructure, everyone who charges at home should have a clear path to realize a substantial savings if they charge at night -- regardless of their circumstances, without consulting an Excel Macro or spending hours researching rate structures, without digging and trenching, and without juggling the rest of their lives around the attempt. It has to be stone cold simple and guaranteed -- not the carnival game it currently is.

The only way that would occur is if they forced everyone onto TOU. Otherwise every person who can't or won't shift usage off-peak will simply opt out of TOU.

It could also happen if there was a TOU incentive, without a commensurate increase in other rates. Simply take the opportunity-cost savings of reduced infrastructure demands that are realized by increased time of use participation and pass them directly to the consumer. Simple, fair, and in the finest tradition of Capitalism.

 

[SierraQ]

Well us EVGOers in Dallas are still awaiting our 2nd fast charger to appear someday. This is bit disappointing considering they were supposed to have 35 as of last September. So don't hold your breath. As an EVGO user I am not sure what is slowing them down but things are disconcertingly silent.

 

[davewill]

The only way that would occur is if they forced everyone onto TOU. Otherwise every person who can't or won't shift usage off-peak will simply opt out of TOU.

It could also happen if there was a TOU incentive, without a commensurate increase in other rates. Simply take the opportunity-cost savings of reduced infrastructure demands that are realized by increased time of use participation and pass them directly to the consumer. Simple, fair, and in the finest tradition of Capitalism.

That amounts to the same thing: putting everyone on the same rate plan with TOU features.

 

[TRONZ]

Well NRG has agreed to install this infrastructure as part of their settlement with CA ($120,000,000). It would seem that Gov Brown had leverage and gave NRG the option of fighting a cash settlement or "working it off" for less. Yes, with NRG owning evGo I am sure thay realized it was their best option to work it off. They will certainly defray alot of costs in-house and expand their EV business model. Brown is not stupid and I give him credit for steering this litigation towards something both parties wanted (infrastructure/paying less = the Art of Compromise). The real questions I have is how much was the original law suit going to cost NRG? What is evGo's track record so far (I have no clue). What will their pay model be like to encourage EV addoption? So far Brown has been pretty good at spotting the crafty tricks of energy companies and firing people deliberately screwing things up (for profit). As the details are formalized I hope he sets it up with little legal wiggle room... and a nice fine structure for failure and games.

Often times you have to put a corporations financial nuts in a vise to make them perform. NRG's misters are in just such a state.

 

[Stoaty]

Outstanding news. Well done, governor.

 

[SanDust]

Agree with Chelsea Sexton that public charging at this point won't do a thing to increase adoption of EVs and is a complete waste of resources. That money could much better be used for home charging or even, heaven forbid, a solution for multi-family buildings. Then again the dollars are probably far greater because it's such a sweet deal for NRG.

 

[TRONZ]

This is a very different deal than what we saw before (Ecotality). This is not a cash settlement with vague promises. This is very specific punch list dictating exactly what they will provide CA... OR ELSE!

The agreement calls for a network that will bring:
A minimum of 200 direct current (DC) fast chargers to the state.
A minimum of 10,000 parking spaces retrofitted with wiring necessary to charge EVs at multifamily buildings, large worksites and civic sites such as universities and hospitals.
Training and jobs for the installation and maintenance of these charging stations in California.
Advanced charging services that increase the speed and power of DC fast charging, store electricity to minimize peak-period demand, and enable EV drivers to support electrical grid reliability with needed energy services through vehicle to grid technology enhancement and implementation.
Significant additional investment in California's clean technology economy and hundreds of jobs in construction and EV infrastructure manufacturing, maintenance and management.
Approximately $100 million in infrastructure investment over four years, and $20 million in cash to go to the California Public Utility Commission.


Dangling a pair of handcuffs in front NRG is a pretty good guarantee these items will actually get done.

 

[walterbays]

Agree with Chelsea Sexton that public charging at this point won't do a thing to increase adoption of EVs and is a complete waste of resources.

I guess I'll have to disagree with her. Beyond the early adopters public infrastructure is key, particularly quick charging infrastructure.

That money could much better be used for home charging or even, heaven forbid, a solution for multi-family buildings.

If evgo offers in California the same pricing plans they now offer in Houston, it would be extremely attractive to people who live in multi-family buildings. If you don't have a dedicated spot for your own EVSE, then you'll need public charging all the time, L2 near your home or work plus some QC. Then evgo's monthly subscription fee looks good compared to fueling a gasoline car. But unless evgo also adds reasonable a la carte pricing they won't get much business from the current population of EV drivers, nearly all of whom already own their EVSEs.

Then again the dollars are probably far greater because it's such a sweet deal for NRG.

As satisfying as it would have been to have the schemers behind the great California "energy crisis" put into the pillory, there is something to be said for community service where a criminal works off his debt to society in some meaningful way.

 

[davewill]

Agree with Chelsea Sexton that public charging at this point won't do a thing to increase adoption of EVs and is a complete waste of resources.

I guess I'll have to disagree with her. Beyond the early adopters public infrastructure is key, particularly quick charging infrastructure.

I'm hoping this will also help with workplace charging. THAT would be a big game changer. If folks knew they could charge at work, we would see a lot of interest.

 

[TRONZ]

Yes, pricing will be interesting considering the overhead costs of all this infrastructure is essentially a fine. NRG/evGo will likely be barred from trying to recover/passthrough the original costs of this infrastructure because the hardware/installation is actually "payment" to the state of CA. EvGo "should" only charge CA residents for electricity and maintenance of this "gift".

Finalization of the agreement will be very interesting and likely "unique".

 

[EVDrive]

Some of this money SHOULD be used to build out the I5 electric highway that OR and WA have actually acted upon and CA has yet to give more than lip service to.

And the 1-80, the I-10, and several other QC Electric Highways, IMO.

Yes, we need to put 2 dc chargers with solar in every town along these highways, every 25 miles. Then we can sell our backup ice cars and go anywhere we want along the west coast electric highway in our Leaf.