Goodbye Nissan Leaf, hello Kia Soul EV

[Zythryn]

Most of us can never use the $7500 tax credit so it is pretty worthless.

I think i ran the numbers and you need to make 60 or 70 thousand dollars a year to fully realize thectax credit. Far far less than half the nation makes that much.

A) it is about 55 thousand

B) The credit goes to the leasor, who then uses it to lower the price of the lease.

 

[nerys]

Ahh must be a tax bracket shift in there. Still well over median income for the nation. Ie far less than half the nation can realize the credit.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

How many of the 123 Soul EV's sold in North America so far, went to former Leaf drivers?

Kia needs to sell the Solu EV in at least all the CARB states, as soon as possible. Then sell it in all 50 - please?

 

[Nubo]

Here is a better "view" of this battery. My round trip commute is a hilly 84 miles (101 Marin, 580 Oakland) and negligible street miles. I come home with 17-22 miles remaining, my average speed reads 49 mph. I drive mostly 62-63 mph with about 4-8 miles at 55 mph, based on traffic. I use heat and AC on return trip to keep defogged, pretty much all the way, 68F is a good medium number. ...

Got rid of $509 Leaf payments for 22 more months which would have ended in owning a Safeway/Costco car with a 3.3 charger and a "maybe" replacement battery that will cost at least 5 grand, and bring me up to the original 73 miles. I call that dead-end tech, folks. That's the reality of it. I laugh when I see a Leaf now.

I was with you, until the laughing part. Nobody laughs at my LEAF!

Well, actually a lot of people do but that's ok.

Horses for courses. For your 84 mile commute the range difference between LEAF and SOUL makes a dramatic difference and I can understand why you're happy with it.

 

[lorenfb]

"For your 84 mile commute the range difference between LEAF and SoulVisit the Soul Forum makes a dramatic difference and I can understand why you're happy with it."

"Dramatic" - please! With a Leaf that commute only requires a 5-8 minute QC. Hardly a basis (~10% range
improvement as advertised) when considering a new product with an unknown reliability record and reports
of a QC changing problem.

 

[Valdemar]

"For your 84 mile commute the range difference between LEAF and SoulVisit the Soul Forum makes a dramatic difference and I can understand why you're happy with it."

"Dramatic" - please! With a Leaf that commute only requires a 5-8 minute QC. Hardly a basis (~10% range
improvement as advertised) when considering a new product with an unknown reliability record and reports
of a QC changing problem.

QC is not available everywhere, and reliability/accessibility is spotty at best. A 3-year old Leaf probably needs about additional 4-5 kWh for this kind of distance. Keep in mind that QC speed is noticeably slower on an a degraded pack, unless you can time it and start charging at a low SOC you will probably need to spend about 15 minutes on QC to get that amount, and with all the detours to get to the charger it can easily add 30 minutes or more to the daily commute in the best case. Not fun.

 

[Nubo]

"For your 84 mile commute the range difference between LEAF and SoulVisit the Soul Forum makes a dramatic difference and I can understand why you're happy with it."

"Dramatic" - please! With a Leaf that commute only requires a 5-8 minute QC. Hardly a basis (~10% range
improvement as advertised) when considering a new product with an unknown reliability record and reports
of a QC changing problem.

To each his own. Personally, one of the joys of an EV for me is that outside of the occasional road trip, I get all the miles I need from charging at home. Not having to stop for "fuel" is a great convenience.

When you're on the cusp, 10% can make all the difference. That was my point. For my usual 30-50 miles a day the LEAF is perfect. If I had an 84 mile commute I would have looked very hard at the Soul. Not only would it make a big difference in convenience, one has to weigh the "unknown reliability record" of the car vs. the *known* reliability record of the QC infrastructure.

 

[nosuchthing]

I was with you, until the laughing part. Nobody laughs at my LEAF!

It's a sad laugh, Nubo. It's "the one who knows won't tell" laugh. You can think about this one for the rest of your life, it's hard to crack.

I defended Leaf to my wife for the longest time. I'm an endless optimist. But I realized this car was going nowhere, and fast. Once I could not take it to the city, it became a real problem. Ironically, I almost forgot to remove the bridge tag attached to the front grille. The car had not crossed GG bridge in a very long time. Wife was right. It was time to move on and it's proven not to be painful at all.

Sad laugh, my friend.

 

[nerys]

I just hope EV's still depreciate like MAD 2 or 3 years from now so I can get a low mile lease soul cheap in a couple years

Tonight will be a good test. going to work 53 miles 88% on the battery 27'f outside and dropping. Brrrrr

 

[nosuchthing]

Blinker on front fender? What is that?

Leaf 2011, 2012. Nissan removed the blinkers to lower the cost. I resent moves like this, because this is an important safety feature and might save lives.

Somebody mentioned charging at work could have saved me from bailing out on the Leaf. What a joke! I even went around the workplace neighborhood willing to pay the owners their PG&E bills just to get 5 kWh 20 days per month. I found nothing, not a single driveway plug. Walgreens across the street, nada either. SF, they said, will get them first. I tried every angle on workplace charging, got written up too for "stealing hospital resources" after 3 months of semi-clandestine charging (even though I paid for the juice). That was the heady 12 range bars days, 4 hours on L1 to take me home. Year later that would not have worked anyway. Lost cause. I would have needed more and more hours on L1 to keep doing it. Very disappointing.

And yes, I do hold grudge against Nissan for not telling us on April 20, 2011 that the car is 73 miles and precipitous downward from there.

 

[Nubo]

Blinker on front fender? What is that?

Small directional indicators on the front panels. Some countries require them and so when all LEAFs were made in Japan, they all came with them since it was cheaper to not complicate assembly with multiple variants. Now that U.S. LEAFs are produced locally, the indicators are gone.

If you follow a line from the side mirror to the front of the tire you can see in this example. Small oval about the size of the key fob.

 

[nerys]

That is one area I agree. the warranty should be for the range advertised. not 70% or any such crap.

X miles or warranty replace OR lower advertised mileage.

if they will only warranty 70% then 70% mileage is what should be advertised

now mind you I went in eyes open. I was aware of degredation etc.. I am taking a gamble. if I can get 90,000 miles out of it I won't care. that will be enough gas to 100% pay for the car and also pay for the next $6000 battery. Totally happy if I can do that.

so far the battery has not degraded any further in 5000 miles (9700 miles tonight so 100 more miles and I will have put 5000 miles on it in just over 2 months)

Winter temps however are crushing my range. down to 70 miles actual. trip in is 53 trip home is 69. pushing it too close so going to pay lanlord on wednesday on its own trip till things warm up)

GOT to find a good anti fog solution so I can use the propane heater. so far spit works well but I have to apply it DAILY. it wears off that fast. need a better solution.

 

[Deleted member 14045]

And yes, I do hold grudge against Nissan for not telling us on April 20, 2011 that the car is 73 miles and precipitous downward from there.

OK, granted I'm a newbie here, but I seem to be getting more than the 84 miles range that they advertise for my 2015 Leaf. I get home after my 60 mile round trip commute showing mid to high 30%'s battery left on the dash. In fact, if I don't run the AC, and I keep it under 90mph (not as easy as it sounds), it's not uncommon for me to come home with mid 40%'s life left. Of course, I only have 4500 miles on the car so far, but you're reporting that you didn't lose a bar until 38K miles, right? So how far is this commute of yours, and how fast are you driving?

 

[Smidge204]

That is one area I agree. the warranty should be for the range advertised. not 70% or any such crap.

X miles or warranty replace OR lower advertised mileage.

if they will only warranty 70% then 70% mileage is what should be advertised

Unfortunately, range is subject to so many factors outside of the manufacturer's (and sometimes the driver's) control, it would be virtually impossible to justify a claim. "I've had the car eighteen months and I'm only getting 50 miles of range! I want warranty service... what? What's wrong with the bags of cement in the back?"

On the other hand, battery capacity is something that can be objectively measured with little room for argument and is largely independent of the conditioned the car is used under.
=Smidge=

 

[davewill]

And yes, I do hold grudge against Nissan for not telling us on April 20, 2011 that the car is 73 miles and precipitous downward from there.

OK, granted I'm a newbie here, but I seem to be getting more than the 84 miles range that they advertise for my 2015 Leaf. I get home after my 60 mile round trip commute showing mid to high 30%'s battery left on the dash. ...

As I recall, the argument is that we shouldn't count the range that's below the first battery warning since a normal driver won't carefully run the battery down to almost nothing to get the car's advertised range. To get 84 miles at freeway speeds, you really do have to almost hit the turtle. They have a point, not one I entirely agree with, but one I can understand.

 

[TimLee]

...
if they will only warranty 70% then 70% mileage is what should be advertised
...

They only warranty 8 capacity bars which is 66.25%, as explained by the Nissan executives at the dinner in Phoenix in August 2013.

Their imprecise marketing people like to round it up to 70%

 

[asimba2]

I call that dead-end tech, folks. That's the reality of it. I laugh when I see a Leaf now.

I can't wait to laugh back at you when I turn in my lease and have 50% more range than your Soul. Seriously, I don't see the point of bashing the LEAF; the 2013+ is a much better car than the early build you had and it's not like the Soul has double the range. Glad you like it and I may consider one myself, but it seems a little harsh to bash the car that started it all.

 

[nerys]

In the warm months i might get 84 at 45 to 50 mph. No way at freeway speeds 65+

The side marker? Mine has that and its a 2012.

 

[nosuchthing]

I seem to be getting more than the 84 miles range that they advertise for my 2015 Leaf.

Newbie alright it is. You should have been around in April 2010 when we all signed up for a 100-mile Leaf. You do have a new batt chemistry there. However, jury's out on that one, just as it was in 2011 when we started driving our 1st new Leafs.

You can only hope Nissan did its homework this time around. They most certainly did not do it then. Threw it out on the market with bad chemistry and grossly overstated range.

 

[Deleted member 14045]

Our m/kW is at 4.3 My Leaf was 3.8 Now that is a 100-mile car. You may begin to cry now.

Newbie alright it is. You should have been around in April 2010 when we all signed up for a 100-mile Leaf. You do have a new batt chemistry there. However, jury's out on that one, just as it was in 2011 when we started driving our 1st new Leafs.

You can only hope Nissan did its homework this time around. They most certainly did not do it then. Threw it out on the market with bad chemistry and grossly overstated range.

I'd hate to be the newbie holding up this thread that maybe should otherwise just die, but I nearly lost my license because of my heavy foot (too many tickets), and yet my 2015 Leaf is showing 4.3 m/kWh, on that little gizmo on the dash, and my lease payment is $249/mo, the same as advertised for the Kia Soul. So, with your new, untested Kia clocking in at the same mileage, and reportedly only 3 kWh more juice, you are supposedly able to get an extra 13 miles of range (while the EPA estimated difference says you'll get more like an extra 9 miles of range). Is that really worth the effort to switch cars and try something new and untested?

It seems to me that this is a little like trying to chase the best performing mutual fund, where as soon as you sell one and buy the other, the old one starts performing better...