Giving up on being an ICE free household

[camasleaf]

We have been ICE free household for over one year now. We rented twice and used some our friends cars a few times. We flew to our vacation destination and rented there, but we would have done that anyway. The battery degraded, the DCQC charging station availability dropped, and the number of EVs increased. I had to wait once for almost an hour for two Leafs to charge before my turn came. The kid is old enough to start going camping again.

I find my self contemplating getting a ICE for driving longer distances and use in bad weather conditions. My wife does not like the idea of a third car or and ICE car.

Here are a few options that we talked about:

1 Wait for the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. The availability date is questionable and the price probably a lot higher than a 2015 Leaf and an older ICE. Not tax incentives in WA for PHEV.
2 Tesla Model S is over my budget, plus it is not something to take camping in the mountain or snow. Their SUV is also going to be expensive.
3 Get a newer Leaf and buy and older 4x4 ICE car. I can get a used ICE for $4000-$6000. I did all the maintenance on my previous ICE cars and I would to the same for this car, so that cost will not be high. Together with a new Leaf will likely cost less then the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

When looking for older ICE 4x4 I noticed that we could get a better value on a bigger the car/engine. While my first reaction was that I will never buy something like that, but I realized that a V8 4.7l 4x4 Jeep or even bigger car will have some advantages:
1 I would help the environment by taking the car from somebody that will use it regularly
2 It will determine us to use the EVs more because it will be expensive to drive

I just need find a place to park the Suburban .

 

[downeykp]

Being ICE free is not practical. It is ok for the commute but if you want to do outdoor stuff camping, skiing you must have an ICE. Our 2005 Honda Pilot is real roomy, is great in the snow and gets 20+ miles per gallon. EVs will never fit that roll. It is not practical.

 

[WetEV]

I just need find a place to park the Suburban .

I hear that they make good flower planters...after you cut the roof off.

 

[planet4ever]

I just need find a place to park the Suburban .

Park the LEAF inside it? :lol:

Ray

 

[mynameisjim]

Being ICE free is not practical. It is ok for the commute but if you want to do outdoor stuff camping, skiing you must have an ICE. Our 2005 Honda Pilot is real roomy, is great in the snow and gets 20+ miles per gallon. EVs will never fit that roll. It is not practical.

I have trouble with a guy on an EV message board saying EVs will never fit that role. I would bet EVs will fit that role within a few years. The Model X will probably do all of that next year, if you have enough money. The RAV4 is probably close, too.

 

[abasile]

Tesla Model S is over my budget, plus it is not something to take camping in the mountain or snow.

While I understand the budget issue, all indications are that the Model S does very well in snow with the right tires.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TelUR5Bg9zE[/youtube]

As for camping, the Model S does have quite a bit of space for a "sedan". I'd love to take my family on camping trips with this vehicle (or a Model X).

 

[KJD]

We have been ICE free household for over one year now. We rented twice and used some our friends cars a few times. We flew to our vacation destination and rented there, but we would have done that anyway. The battery degraded, the DCQC charging station availability dropped, and the number of EVs increased. I had to wait once for almost an hour for two Leafs to charge before my turn came. The kid is old enough to start going camping again.
I find my self contemplating getting a ICE for driving longer distances and use in bad weather conditions. My wife does not like the idea of a third car or and ICE car.
Here are a few options that we talked about:

1 Wait for the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. The availability date is questionable and the price probably a lot higher than a 2015 Leaf and an older ICE. Not tax incentives in WA for PHEV.
2 Tesla Model S is over my budget, plus it is not something to take camping in the mountain or snow. Their SUV is also going to be expensive.
3 Get a newer Leaf and buy and older 4x4 ICE car. I can get a used ICE for $4000-$6000. I did all the maintenance on my previous ICE cars and I would to the same for this car, so that cost will not be high. Together with a new Leaf will likely cost less then the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

I recently bought a Subaru for my wife to drive in bad weather. Great car, fold the seat down and pack lots of gear for the weekend trips. It works for us.

We both really want to get a Model-X, but not ready to spend 80 grand or more on a car. Maybe a used Tesla in couple of years or Gen 3 car some day.

 

[downeykp]

You can have all the trouble you want. Most of us middle class Leaf owners were fortunate enough to buy a Leaf for our commutes because the incentives made it easy to afford. The RAV4 is not available everywhere, costs a lot of money and is not 4 wheel drive. A Tesla is out of the question unless money is no object. It is not for the masses. Too expensive.
What would an EV do in a snowstorm where the interstate is impassable because of snow. You can't go forward or backwards. You are in a snowstorm for three or four hours. If I have a full tank of gas I can idle and keep warm all day. Could an EV do that. I have been in such situations. Most of these alpine areas are very remote. EV charging would not be in the vicinity even after the backup started to lessen.
So have all the problems you want. Defy reality at your own risk.

Being ICE free is not practical. It is ok for the commute but if you want to do outdoor stuff camping, skiing you must have an ICE. Our 2005 Honda Pilot is real roomy, is great in the snow and gets 20+ miles per gallon. EVs will never fit that roll. It is not practical.

I have trouble with a guy on an EV message board saying EVs will never fit that role. I would bet EVs will fit that role within a few years. The Model X will probably do all of that next year, if you have enough money. The RAV4 is probably close, too.

 

[mikeEmike]

I would help the environment by taking the car from somebody that will use it regularly

Wouldn't that depend on what they replace it with? If they replace it with something more polluting, it won't. Not everybody trades up to something more environmentally friendly, unfortunately.

Regardless, sorry that being an ICE free household didn't work out, but I applaud your effort! I'd like to do the same eventually, but as you have pointed out, it's easier said than done. Hopefully this will be more achievable for more people in the near future.

 

[Stanton]

As much as I am an EV promoter, I never recommend that a household go "ICE free"; it just isn't practical. I believe the target market for a BEV like the Leaf is: (at least) 2-car household with garage containing EVSE. If only 50% of the addressable market would buy an EV, we would put OPEC out of business.

 

[jsongster]

As much as I am an EV promoter, I never recommend that a household go "ICE free"; it just isn't practical. I believe the target market for a BEV like the Leaf is: (at least) 2-car household with garage containing EVSE. If only 50% of the addressable market would buy an EV, we would put OPEC out of business.

exactly right!

 

[camasleaf]

Tesla Model S is over my budget, plus it is not something to take camping in the mountain or snow.

While I understand the budget issue, all indications are that the Model S does very well in snow with the right tires.
As for camping, the Model S does have quite a bit of space for a "sedan". I'd love to take my family on camping trips with this vehicle (or a Model X).

PNW show is different from what they have in Norway. In the clip just by listening to the sound of the tires on that snow you can tell how dry that snow is. Plus only main roads get plowed around here, I am not sure how a Model S will do in one foot of wet snow. It does not happen often, but about 6 years ago when I had my 4x4 truck I had to go get some friends to the store to buy food. The snow stayed on the ground for 3 weeks. You needed something higher to get you to the main roads, plus over the snow that piles up when they plow the main road. That being said I would give Tesla a try if I could afford it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

People who use airline travel and long for SUVs are not generally the ones who try to go "ICE free." That idea was doomed from the start, assuming the original post wasn't a troll...

 

[epirali]

People who use airline travel and long for SUVs are not generally the ones who try to go "ICE free." That idea was doomed from the start, assuming the original post wasn't a troll...

This is an incorrect and unproductive view. I use airline travel, want to, need to. I don't LONG for SUVs but need one for a long trip across country. I also own two electric cars, would like to own all electric cars, but it's not realistic.

Purity isn't the point, using better technology, cleaner, simpler is. Reducing pollution where it's feasible and easy is important. Alienating others by purity won't help with that goal.

 

[DanCar]

People who use airline travel and long for SUVs are not generally the ones who try to go "ICE free." That idea was doomed from the start, assuming the original post wasn't a troll...

We are gas free but would like a large people hauler like an SUV. Looking forward to being able to buy the Outlander plug-in or E-NV200. I'm sure there will be more low cost options in 2016.

 

[Turnover]

Camas is right. I live within a few miles of Camas and his description of the weather conditions is accurate plus the unmentioned severe ice storms we have as very cold air from the East hits the wet weather coming in from the Pacific Ocean. Many of our hiking/camping opportunities are in or near our Wilderness areas and it is lucky if those campgrounds have piped water much less electricity. Still, we have some great nearby EV reachable areas such as the newly rerouted Cape Horn Trail in the Columbian River Gorge and Beacon Rock State Park. So, we are keeping our Subaru Forester. I just saw our State Farm agent and due to the much lowered mileage in the past year the 6 month premium dropped $50 ... that was after we put $2500 into it ... most of which were related to the scheduled timing belt replacement (ICE related) plus new tires (ICE/EV related.)

 

[camasleaf]

People who use airline travel and long for SUVs are not generally the ones who try to go "ICE free." That idea was doomed from the start, assuming the original post wasn't a troll...

Our vacation this summer was in Eastern Europe. How would you get there? Take a ferry?

I do not long an SUV. But the DCQC charging stations availability in Portland dropped drastically in the last few months. Tomorrow we need to do a 67 miles RT. In the summer is not a problem. But in the winter with colder temperatures and the need to use defog, it pushes the newer Leaf to the limit. There are two DCQC stations along the freeway. One is down, the other was up 11 days ago. I refused to use public L2 since the beginning, since I do not believe it is the way of the future. I would have to use it tomorrow if the DCQC is down.

Unless the DCQC charging stations availability improves, by fall we will consider a third ICE car. And will likely be a SUV 4x4.

 

[smkettner]

Our vacation this summer was in Eastern Europe. How would you get there? Take a ferry?

Better go with a sailing ship if you want to continue the low carbon footprint.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Our vacation this summer was in Eastern Europe. How would you get there? Take a ferry?

Or not vacation on another continent, perish the thought. How entitled we feel, in these waning days of the ecosystem... Anyway, I wasn't suggesting that everyone stop using airline travel in that post (although that IS a great idea), but that the idea of going 'gas free' only makes sense in that context if you just hate the smell of gasoline. Otherwise a PHEV makes more sense than an SUV, and a small SUV makes more sense than a large one. A large SUV, driven rarely, makes much less sense than a rental.

 

[Bicster]

I have a feeling my family could go ICE-less with a RAV4 EV or Model S. I don't mind renting a car for road trips; I frequently do that anyway. As long as I can get to Galveston and back 3-4 times a year, I'm good. I can't do that with an 80 mile EV. (I'm about 60 miles door to door and it's almost entirely on a freeway @ 65-75 mph. Even with a full charge at the destination, that's not very practical.)

Most weeks (48 out of 52) I only drive 150-190 miles a week at an average speed of 10mph. Freeway use is pretty rare, but even then my average speed is only 15mph. The range of the RAV4 EV would be perfect for me, too bad Toyota has made that practically impossible.