Ghosn says Leaf will get a new battery.

[palmermd]

sometimes i wish they would be more like American companies who over promise and under deliver.

I think they have already done a pretty good job of that with their claims about battery life. How much more could they really "improve"? :evil:

how long are we going to continue to reference that 100 mile statement?

Read a little more closely. He is referring to the promise of 5 years with 80% remaining capacity and that not getting delivered. But you are right, they also started out promising 100 mile range on the LA4 cycle, which was not over-promising, but just simply misleading to those who read over stuff too quickly.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

If I had to guess, Nissan will, some day, create a Leaf pack using the new technology but, instead of using the same volume for the cells to give 150 mile range, will shrink the cells, giving a solid 100 mile range, and use the remaining space in the pack for active cooling! Unfortunately, this probably means no retrofit for the current Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

how long are we going to continue to reference that 100 mile statement?

Read a little more closely. He is referring to the promise of 5 years with 80% remaining capacity and that not getting delivered. But you are right, they also started out promising 100 mile range on the LA4 cycle, which was not over-promising, but just simply misleading to those who read over stuff too quickly.

ooops you right. dont know how i got that 100 miles in there. sooooorrry...

either way, the 80% statement i cannot fault either as the it had a million caveats so Nissan covered themselves there as well and i am a living example of someone who will most likely have more than 80% after 5 years or 60,000 miles.

we also have TaylorSF who is showing some decline but thinks it might be about 10%. now granted its been just over a year for him but he will probably see 60,000 way before the end of the year.

as for me? 21,500+ miles and although my GID count is all over the place, i did get 278 (98.9%) yesterday morning. (274 this morning)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If I had to guess, Nissan will, some day, create a Leaf pack using the new technology but, instead of using the same volume for the cells to give 150 mile range, will shrink the cells, giving a solid 100 mile range, and use the remaining space in the pack for active cooling! Unfortunately, this probably means no retrofit for the current Leaf.

what i hope to see is a 150 mile retrofit option for existing LEAFS,

new LEAFS at $38,000 with the 150 pack and LEAFs at $30,000 with the smaller capacity pack. this will open up a new segment

 

[Martytdi]

I heard and hope to see 175% increase of the battery of the leaf 2013. And maybe more in the 2014 Nissan Leaf, who knows. New battery tech is coming.








2012 Nissan Leaf SL Black
2010 VW Jetta sport wagon TDI

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I heard and hope to see 175% increase of the battery of the leaf 2013.

Talk of a 75% increase is being bandied about, which would be 175% of what it is now, which would be great. A 175% increase would be un-freakin-believable.

Nothing really confirmed though.

 

[palmermd]

Talk of a 75% increase is being bandied about, which would be 175% of what it is now, which would be great. A 175% increase would be un-freakin-believable.

Nothing really confirmed though.

Well, just from a energy density point of view on the individual cells (not the pack assembly and cooling [if used] hardware).

The original cells are :

Rated capacity (0.3C)         33.1 Ah
Average voltage               3.8 V
Weight                        799 g

which translates to 33.1*3.8/799 = .157wh/g

Panasonic NMC cells :

Rated capacity (0.3C)         3.1 Ah
Average voltage               3.6 V
Weight                        45.5 g

which translates to 3.1*3.6/45.5 = 0.245wh/g

that is a 56% increase, and if they are doing this same chemistry in a pouch like the current cells, they should have better energy to weight due to less packaging of the small 3.1Ah cells versus the 33Ah pouches.

I also calculate a 70% increase in the wh/liter, so they should be able to put much more energy in the same space in our cars, or they could put the same energy in less space and also have less weight.

No idea if they cost any more to produce, but they should allow for longer range in the same form factor in our cars, or less volume and weight for the same energy which leaves room for a TMS inside the existing enclosure.

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE254.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.eco-aesc-lb.com/en/product.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

Not being talked about is that, if it is true for the 2013 (and I don't believe that it is), the 2011 and 2012s would then be essentially worthless. Thank God I leased!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Mine is not worthless not matter what happens. I never thought this was the end all product

 

[TomT]

Perhaps not to you personally, but as a resale item, well...

Mine is not worthless not matter what happens. I never thought this was the end all product

 

[ENIAC]

I suspect the path to the new Gen II battery technology that Nissan will offer us Gen I LEAF owners will only be via vehicle trade in.

 

[Nubo]

It would be in Nissan's best interest to be quite generous regarding this battery issue. They made a multi-billion dollar bet on the concept, and they are right about its necessity for the automotive industry to remain a going concern in the years ahead. They've got a bit of a black eye at this point from the Gen1 battery issues but that is easy to fix if indeed Gen2 is much improved. The cost of retrofits to the relatively small fleet would be far outweighed by the benefits, imho.

 

[ENIAC]

It would be in Nissan's best interest to be quite generous regarding this battery issue. They made a multi-billion dollar bet on the concept, and they are right about its necessity for the automotive industry to remain a going concern in the years ahead. They've got a bit of a black eye at this point from the Gen1 battery issues but that is easy to fix if indeed Gen2 is much improved. The cost of retrofits to the relatively small fleet would be far outweighed by the benefits, imho.

The first big assumption is if a retrofit would even be possible. There are a lot of ramification to swapping battery chemistries.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

How much is Apple offering on trade for the 4s to go to the 5?

 

[palmermd]

How much is Apple offering on trade for the 4s to go to the 5?

I still have my original iPhone...how much for that one. Am I an early adopter? Do I get credit for that when I buy an iPhone5? And, Yes, the battery in the original iphone is still working fine. It does seem to have lost some capacity, but I can still use it all day and charge it at night.

 

[hill]

Nissan Leadership seems to be poor at communication. There were huge hints that our 3kW on board chargers had a possibility of being upgraded to the 6kW chargers when they come out. Later we find out no ... we're hosed ... just like 100 mile range claims. Ok so if I work at it, I can get 100 miles ... but normal driving (cold / hills / 70mph) yields 70 miles because NO one wants to have to drive on the last miles, in low battery mode. Then there's the, "we tested it in ALL environments" ... only to find AZ drivers getting hosed.

So ... what is Nissan leadership really saying? That's right ... not much. More likely than not, any re-work on the pack will not work in our models. It's the price we hopefully were willing to accept being early adapters. I don't like it. But I can hack it.

.

 

[EVDRIVER]

6.6 is great for public charging but not so valuable at home in most cases. Nissan needs a Scion like division, they are still out of touch but slowly learning.

 

[camasleaf]

Perhaps not to you personally, but as a resale item, well...

When my car will have only 10 miles range left I will sell it as the perfect car for teenage drivers :twisted: . How much damage can they do within 5 miles from home :lol: .

 

[EVDRIVER]

Perhaps not to you personally, but as a resale item, well...

When my car will have only 10 miles range left I will sell it as the perfect car for teenage drivers :twisted: . How much damage can they do within 5 miles from home :lol: .

Many accidents happen within a few blocks of ones home based on statistics. Likely based on a laxed attention span. "insert Allstate voice here"

 

[SanDust]

that is a 56% increase, and if they are doing this same chemistry in a pouch like the current cells, they should have better energy to weight due to less packaging of the small 3.1Ah cells versus the 33Ah pouches.

I doubt it would be the same chemistry.