EVSE options for 2013+ Leafs

[CmdrThor]

I'm confused about 8/3 vs 8/2. The Siemens Versicharge use a 6-50 plug which is a 3 wire plug, hot, hot, ground. So it seems that 8/2 (+ ground) is all that can be used. Not sure what you'd do with the extra wire in a 8/3. I think somewhere in the code the white wire needs to be colored black at the outlet, but otherwise should be the proper wire from my understanding. Would be nice to find the section in the code. NEC 2011 is available online.

I'm confused because I received an estimate from an electrician that specified 8/3 and made me wonder about their credibility. My area does allow DIY but the permit process is extra onerous and none of the electricians I've spoken (3) with even remotely planned to get a permit and inspection.

You are right, 8/2 is all that is needed for the 6-50 plug. I ran 8/3 in case someday someone who owns my house in the future wants to replace the receptacle with a 4 prong like the NEMA 14-50. For example if you got a Tesla Model S you could with to the 14-50, leave all the wiring intact and you could charge at 30a. The white wire is just capped off in my outlet box. Just be sure to hook the bare ground up to the ground in the 6-50, NOT the white neutral.

 

[CmdrThor]

Companies such as AeroVironment insist you install a 40A breaker (meaning you HAVE to stick with 8 AWG wiring). I'm in process of installing my 30A EVSE, and really wanted to install a 50A circuit with a 14-50 outlet/plug combo, but looks like I need to stick with a 40A circuit unless I feel like running a subpanel (which I don't).

Ah, well couldn't you just run the 6 AWG anyways and put a 40A breaker in? I can't imagine using wire too thick could possibly be a problem, though I am certainly not an electrician ...

 

[smkettner]

If I was pulling new wire to a 50a outlet it would be #6 and 50a breaker.

 

[Ingineer]

I echo the #6 AWG and 50A breaker suggestion. If you are using a 14-50 to connect to an EVSE, simply cap off the white wire from the cordset. It does not need or have a place it can connect to in most EVSE's.

Despite AV's assertion to have a 40A breaker, I see no reason you cannot use a 50A if you are connecting to an outlet. It does not present any safety issues.

-Phil

 

[lion]

Problem is that if the manufacturer dictates a 40A requirement, NEC seems to want you to follow that requirement, in order to pass inspection.

Personally, I don't know. It's like they are relying on the 40A breaker for protection against certain problems, then again, they are one of the few to offer true surge protection. I have to buy the wire/parts within 24 hours, so I do need to make up my mind.

Anyways, don't want to take over this thread, as I already started a big one in the same subforum, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

 

[QueenBee]

Problem is that if the manufacturer dictates a 40A requirement, NEC seems to want you to follow that requirement, in order to pass inspection.

Personally, I don't know. It's like they are relying on the 40A breaker for protection against certain problems, then again, they are one of the few to offer true surge protection. I have to buy the wire/parts within 24 hours, so I do need to make up my mind.

Anyways, don't want to take over this thread, as I already started a big one in the same subforum, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I'd be willing to bet the cost of a 50 amp breaker that you'll pass inspection. Will it meet the letter of the NEC? Probably not since NEC requires you to follow manufacturer instructions but I bet it still passes and as Phil said will not cause a safety issue. I'd argue the #6 would actually be safer.

 

[MikeD]

lion: You wrote "you HAVE to stick with 8 AWG wiring" when using a 40a breaker, which was a point of contention in your other thread between wwhitney and me. I am curious if you got confirmation for this NEC interpretation from some other knowledgeable source?

I'm still of the opinion (as you know) that 6 AWG wiring w/ a 40a breaker is a good way for you to go for now (and if later you upgrade to a "40a" EVSE, only then change to a 50a breaker). That the 40a breaker protects the "30a" EVSE better than a 50a breaker would is probably a major reason why they insist on it, don't you think?

 

[lion]

lion: You wrote "you HAVE to stick with 8 AWG wiring" when using a 40a breaker, which was a point of contention in your other thread between wwhitney and me. I am curious if you got confirmation for this NEC interpretation from some other knowledgeable source?

I'm still of the opinion (as you know) that 6 AWG wiring w/ a 40a breaker is a good way for you to go for now (and if later you upgrade to a "40a" EVSE, only then change to a 50a breaker). That the 40a breaker protects the "30a" EVSE better than a 50a breaker would is probably a major reason why they insist on it, don't you think?

Yep I agree, just sucks that they can't put an internal fuse/breaker into the $1,000 EVSE, and rely on a circuit breaker for protection. As for the NEC issue, I found some other sources which explained some potential issues, but have not found any official/trusted sources which explained why you can/can't do this.

 

[MikeD]

lion: You just wrote "As for the NEC issue, I found some other sources which explained some potential issues, but have not found any official/trusted sources which explained why you can/can't do this.".

With all due respect, then why did you write "you HAVE [emphasis yours] to stick with 8 AWG wiring" when using a 40a breaker? This is not a neutral statement, would you agree?

You have me totally confused about what you are saying about an important issue, i.e. "Can one oversize a cable to an EVSE in anticipation of possibly upgrading to a more powerful one in the future?" which I have been trying to help settle conclusively for the benefit of others interested in this same issue.

 

[smkettner]

lion: You just wrote "As for the NEC issue, I found some other sources which explained some potential issues, but have not found any official/trusted sources which explained why you can/can't do this.".

With all due respect, then why did you write "you HAVE [emphasis yours] to stick with 8 AWG wiring" when using a 40a breaker? This is not a neutral statement, would you agree?

You have me totally confused about you are saying about an important issue, i.e. "Can one oversize a cable to an EVSE in anticipation of possibly upgrading to a more powerful one in the future?" which I have been trying to help settle conclusively for the benefit of others interested in this same issue.

afaik NEC does not have a limit on using larger wire.

 

[Gearscout]

Just a note of thanks to Ingineer and the team at EVSEupgrade.com

I sent my new unit in for upgrade on a Saturday and received it back, along with the 120v adapter cable, on Thursday.

It was fast, painless and I can now charge my base model S about twice as quickly.

Really worth it. First class upgrade quality. I upgraded to the high power version, even though I don't have that in the car. Wired to a 40 amp circuit with a 30A breaker.

Thanks, again, Ingineer!

Jim C.

 

[Cmahrle]

lion: You just wrote "As for the NEC issue, I found some other sources which explained some potential issues, but have not found any official/trusted sources which explained why you can/can't do this.".

With all due respect, then why did you write "you HAVE [emphasis yours] to stick with 8 AWG wiring" when using a 40a breaker? This is not a neutral statement, would you agree?

You have me totally confused about you are saying about an important issue, i.e. "Can one oversize a cable to an EVSE in anticipation of possibly upgrading to a more powerful one in the future?" which I have been trying to help settle conclusively for the benefit of others interested in this same issue.

afaik NEC does not have a limit on using larger wire.

Oversizing the wire is not a problem (unless it's so oversized that the bare individual wires won't fit where they need to go!)

 

[LizzyLeaf]

I have leased a 2013 Leaf SL for about 3 months now. At home, I charge it using 110v and am now looking at moving to L2 with minimum hassle and cost.
- I am not an electrician and definitely won't DIY
- I prefer not to hire an electrician for inspection and installation (avoid the hassle and cost)
- I have an unused dryer plug which says "10-30R 30A 125/250V"
- Since I lease the car, I assume I cannot upgrade the L1 cord (EVSEupgrade.com), I have to return the original cord when the lease ends
Is it true that my only choice is to buy a new cord from EVSEupgrade.com which costs $1027 ?
Is there any other option which does not require inspection and installation and can simply be plugged into the 240V outlet ?
Is there any other option that the total cost (EVSE + installation) is less than $1027 ?

Appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

 

[mwalsh]

- Since I lease the car, I assume I cannot upgrade the L1 cord (EVSEupgrade.com), I have to return the original cord when the lease ends
Is it true that my only choice is to buy a new cord from EVSEupgrade.com which costs $1027 ?

Have the EVSE upgraded anyway. You'll have no trouble trading it with someone for an unmodified one at the end of your lease.

Some wags here have also suggested just sticking a 5-15 120V plug on the EVSE and returning it with the car without saying anything about having it upgraded.

 

[GlennD]

I had no problem trading in my car with the EVSE converted to OpenEVSE and a 240VAC to 120VAC adapter in the carrier.

I think they only check to see if the EVSE is there.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, Leases are no problem, see this.

Since you have a unused 10-30 (dryer) plug, you are all set. Just order the upgrade, and the 10-30 adapter. If you want to retain the ability to still charge on standard (120v) outlets, be sure to add the 120v adapter also.

Those three items should cost $341.95, plus shipping. Then you'll enjoy fast charging in about 3-5 hours. (Provided you have the SL, SV, or S with charging package)

-Phil

 

[LizzyLeaf]

Phil,
Thanks for the reply. That sounds like the best solution for me.

 

[hingisfan]

Hi guys,

I can get the Eaton for about $50 more than the Scnheider. It's outdoor rated and has a longer more heavy duty cord. Going to wall mount in garage, but maybe charge in driveway during warmer months. Any reason not to get the Eaton? Gov't pays half if I buy in Canada, so these are really my only two choices. 2013 SV.

Thanks!

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/30-amp-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... del/989931
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/eaton-i" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ed-/998395

 

[ObiQuiet]

I just got the 220v, 24 amp EVSE charging cable from EVSE Upgrade (http://evseupgrade.com/) for my 2013 Leaf. Wow. With the stock Nissan trickle charger I got about 4.5 miles of range per hour of charging. With the EVSE Upgrade cable I now get about 20 miles of range per hour of charging.

Given its portability (just the cable, which you can take with you), flexibility (they offer several different adapters for the multitude of 220v plug types), and very low cost (about $300) this seems like a no-brainer to me.

Yep, the upgrade clearly makes sense.

My question is, what are the pros/cons for a *new* unit from EVSEUpgrade, versus (e.g.) a Versicharge?
Pro: smaller, portable
Pro: dual-voltage
Con: $1000 vs. $850
Even: Indoor/Outdoor(?)

What else? Thanks for any help or pointers to threads I missed!

 

[LeafingGasBehind]

Nice thread. I'm only a couple of weeks in and the 120V charge times are a bit annoying.