Ecopia EP422 tires suck

[dgpcolorado]

I count myself as one of the many that do not like the Ecopia tires, because they seem to wear out too quickly, 30K miles and they are bald on the edges and need to be replaced.

One reason they are bald on the edges is that the tread isn't full depth on those edges. That makes them look worn before they get anywhere near the wear bars. It does not, necessarily, mean uneven wear. Why they are like that, I could only guess at.

For those of us who drive sharp curves all the time, the outside edges of the tires tend to roll under, due to the soft sidewalls of the LRR tires. Keeping the pressure higher should help with that some. Why Nissan specified 36 PSI, I haven't a clue. Perhaps they just wanted a cushy ride. But it doesn't seem appropriate for LRR tires on such a heavy car. I use 40-42 PSI on my tires.

As to why anyone would want the Ecopias, I am interested in maximum range and I've been unable to find any LRR tires that match the Ecopias. Perhaps they exist but after considerable searching I couldn't find any side-by-side comparisons that determined that. For me, range is everything because I live in a remote rural area with very little charging infrastructure and real winters. If you don't care about range, then fine, go with something else.


Time to go out and shovel some more of my 400 foot driveway so I can get out tomorrow...

 

[LeftieBiker]

For me, range is everything because I live in a remote rural area with very little charging infrastructure and real winters. If you don't care about range, then fine, go with something else.

I'd be worried just as much about the 'real Winters' as about range. I'd also be worried about thin tires on country roads. The Pirelli snows I'm using in Winter lower the range little themselves; most of the drop is from the cold.

 

[JPWhite]

Time to go out and shovel some more of my 400 foot driveway so I can get out tomorrow...

With a drive like that you need a battery powered snow blower!!

 

[blimpy]

Bridgestones in general have poor tread life. Cars or Motorcycles.

I just bought Michelin Defenders with 90K Mile treadlife... instead of the 60K treadlife things the dealers wanted to sell me.
Look at the Michelin site, they have Better Handling and Braking then the new gee-whiz tires.

While rolling resistance may be an issue for some, unless your usual route required using the absolute maximum
range capability... why shred more rubber along the way than necessary. I live in steep, windy, hilly , potholed
N. Cal and I will surely put defenders on the USED Leaf I will buy soon. :mrgreen:

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The way I see it, if the tire is rated for 44psi cold, then why not run it like that, especially if it is fairly well known that it will roll easier and be more efficient on a car where efficiency is important?

Because for the weight of the car that isn't the correct pressure?

 

[PV2leaf]

Regarding the PSI you should set you tires to .......... Back when I was running autocross many years ago an "old timer" taught me how to set my tire pressures to account for the tires characteristics, weight balance and driving style.

Using white shoe polish make a few marks on the tread corner area of each tire.
If you are rolling the tread and wearing off the area past the shoulder add a few more PSI until the wear is just at the shoulder.
This trick also helps detect suspension issues.

I have used this on every car I have owned including my wife's cars. When you find yourself at the max rated pressure and are still rubbing the sidewall you know that you need to look at better tires next time. (load or speed ratings)

My Ecopias have 29K and are pretty much good only for dry roads at this point. 44/front and 42/rear seems to be the sweet spot for even wear.
Most other front wheel drive cars I have owned ended up with a 6PSI split F to R

 

[LeftieBiker]

With a drive like that you need a battery powered snow blower!!

OT, but there is one now. It looks a little small and anemic, but it's called something like "Sno Joe" if you want to check it out. It uses a small lithium battery and rubber paddles in a plastic body. I'll get one if they prove reliable.

 

[sredlin]

Regarding the PSI you should set you tires to .......... Back when I was running autocross many years ago an "old timer" taught me how to set my tire pressures to account for the tires characteristics, weight balance and driving style.

Using white shoe polish make a few marks on the tread corner area of each tire.
If you are rolling the tread and wearing off the area past the shoulder add a few more PSI until the wear is just at the shoulder.
This trick also helps detect suspension issues.

I have used this on every car I have owned including my wife's cars. When you find yourself at the max rated pressure and are still rubbing the sidewall you know that you need to look at better tires next time. (load or speed ratings)

My Ecopias have 29K and are pretty much good only for dry roads at this point. 44/front and 42/rear seems to be the sweet spot for even wear.
Most other front wheel drive cars I have owned ended up with a 6PSI split F to R

That's very interesting, it sounds like you have been pretty diligent about nailing the ideal PSI and still your Ecopias are more or less done at 30K. I think I'm probably better than many drivers at keeping up with tire pressure because I have an air compressor in the garage and it's not difficult to air up my tires when needed, or when I think about it is usually how it works. So given what you wrote, I guess I should feel pretty good about getting 30k out of the original tires. I still don't think this makes me any more interested in buying another set of Ecopia tires though?

 

[BrockWI]

As others have mentioned and as much as I don't like the stock Ecopia's that come with the car, I would be willing to bet if you bought "new" Ecopia's they would hold up much longer and be a better tire. I would think the same for the stock Michelin's that come on some of the cars. It always surprises me that major tire companies are willing to make a "cheaper" version of a tire because it leaves a bad impression of those tires in customers minds. I wish they would call stock tires another name, I know they are designated differently, but they are still Ecopia's.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Bridgestones in general have poor tread life. Cars or Motorcycles.

I just bought Michelin Defenders with 90K Mile treadlife... instead of the 60K treadlife things the dealers wanted to sell me.
Look at the Michelin site, they have Better Handling and Braking then the new gee-whiz tires.

While rolling resistance may be an issue for some, unless your usual route required using the absolute maximum
range capability... why shred more rubber along the way than necessary. I live in steep, windy, hilly , potholed
N. Cal and I will surely put defenders on the USED Leaf I will buy soon. :mrgreen:

It's a much bigger hit than you think, and any tire with more weight you can feel in accelerating. Biggest regret on my LEAF was going from the Ecopia to a Michelin even with the better traction.

 

[sredlin]

Bridgestones in general have poor tread life. Cars or Motorcycles.

I just bought Michelin Defenders with 90K Mile treadlife... instead of the 60K treadlife things the dealers wanted to sell me.
Look at the Michelin site, they have Better Handling and Braking then the new gee-whiz tires.

While rolling resistance may be an issue for some, unless your usual route required using the absolute maximum
range capability... why shred more rubber along the way than necessary. I live in steep, windy, hilly , potholed
N. Cal and I will surely put defenders on the USED Leaf I will buy soon. :mrgreen:

It's a much bigger hit than you think, and any tire with more weight you can feel in accelerating. Biggest regret on my LEAF was going from the Ecopia to a Michelin even with the better traction.

So which Michelin did you go with?

 

[sredlin]

As others have mentioned and as much as I don't like the stock Ecopia's that come with the car, I would be willing to bet if you bought "new" Ecopia's they would hold up much longer and be a better tire. I would think the same for the stock Michelin's that come on some of the cars. It always surprises me that major tire companies are willing to make a "cheaper" version of a tire because it leaves a bad impression of those tires in customers minds. I wish they would call stock tires another name, I know they are designated differently, but they are still Ecopia's.

I have heard things like this, but is there really any proof that OEM tires are actually different than what the tire shops sell? I know the tire shops will tell you that the OEM Ecopia tires do not have a mileage rating warranty like the replacement Ecopia tires they want to sell you. I suspect that this simply means that since the specific tire shop you visit didn't sell you the OEM tires, they cannot or do not want to be liable for any pro-rated tire credits when the tread on the 60k tire becomes unsafe at 30k. Of course it is possible that the tire companies give vehicle manufacturers tires that do not meet their quality assurance standards for tread wear ratings for retail sales, but are not otherwise unsafe tire to drive on? Who knows, but I think I'll take the risk of taking a hit to range with a different and hopefully longer lasting tire myself, not sure which one just yet though?

 

[EVDRIVER]

As others have mentioned and as much as I don't like the stock Ecopia's that come with the car, I would be willing to bet if you bought "new" Ecopia's they would hold up much longer and be a better tire. I would think the same for the stock Michelin's that come on some of the cars. It always surprises me that major tire companies are willing to make a "cheaper" version of a tire because it leaves a bad impression of those tires in customers minds. I wish they would call stock tires another name, I know they are designated differently, but they are still Ecopia's.

I have heard things like this, but is there really any proof that OEM tires are actually different than what the tire shops sell? I know the tire shops will tell you that the OEM Ecopia tires do not have a mileage rating warranty like the replacement Ecopia tires they want to sell you. I suspect that this simply means that since the specific tire shop you visit didn't sell you the OEM tires, they cannot or do not want to be liable for any pro-rated tire credits when the tread on the 60k tire becomes unsafe at 30k. Of course it is possible that the tire companies give vehicle manufacturers tires that do not meet their quality assurance standards for tread wear ratings for retail sales, but are not otherwise unsafe tire to drive on? Who knows, but I think I'll take the risk of taking a hit to range with a different and hopefully longer lasting tire myself, not sure which one just yet though?

The OEM tires are often constructed differently to shave dollars (thin sidewalls on OEM Ecopia) . There is no tire that really matches the Ecopia in efficiency for the LEAF, there are close runners which are usually crap OEM tires and anything with significant improvement in traction is going to hit efficiency. There is no free lunch on the tires. I think I had the primacy Michelins or whichever was rated for top efficiency in that category and they hit my 0-60 time and shaved about 10% off my range. If you have heathy pack and drive limited miles a day and don't care about slower off the line performance and want more traction then get any high traction tire, if you care about range in a real and not insignificant way get the Ecopias.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Time to go out and shovel some more of my 400 foot driveway so I can get out tomorrow...

With a drive like that you need a battery powered snow blower!!

While I've thought about a snow blower (do they really make full size electric ones?) the problem is that snow blowers really don't like gravel driveways; the gravel tends to jam them. If they made one with adjustable skis on the front to keep the intake well away from the gravel it could work. But most snow blowers are intended for paved driveways — with worthless little skids on the front — and those are much easier to shovel anyway because the snow can just be pushed aside without lifting and throwing.

Anyway, shoveling is good exercise and I just listen to audio books while I work. I've had this long driveway for fifteen winters, so I'm used it.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I always assumed the reason there was no mileage warranty on original equipment tires is because tire manufacturers don't need to provide them. People shopping for cars don't consider tire durability in their buying decisions, if anything they are more influenced by performance or quiet ride, which may be more easily provided by a tire that wears out quickly. The sooner those original tires wear out the sooner the tire companies make a replacement sale.

 

[pchilds]

My 2007 Prius came with Goodyear tires, at 25k miles they were bald, way past the wear bars. My 2005 Murano came with Goodyear tires, this car was garaged, at 4 years, 32k miles the tires had lots of tread, but the side walls were severely cracked and had to replace them. As so many people here have said about the Ecopias, I will never buy Goodyear tires because of these experiences. It only hurts the tire company to make junk OEM tires.

 

[Nubo]

I always assumed the reason there was no mileage warranty on original equipment tires is because tire manufacturers don't need to provide them. People shopping for cars don't consider tire durability in their buying decisions, if anything they are more influenced by performance or quiet ride, which may be more easily provided by a tire that wears out quickly. The sooner those original tires wear out the sooner the tire companies make a replacement sale.

Is the tread on the OEM shallower than the aftermarket tires of the same type? I wonder if some OEMs might specify shallower tread depth because it bumps up fuel economy a bit, and they are trying to meet C.A.F.E. standards...?

 

[woodgeek]

I've got an ecopia question for the MNL hivemind....

Reading this thread it seems are getting lousy miles out of the 422s, and others are having no problem. I'm at 4600 miles on a 3 year lease, and have visible wear on the fronts. I'm worried I would make my 30k miles...although I got snows to take some of the miles.

Here's my hypothesis....driving in ECO or 'spirited'. We never drive in ECO (except rarely when we are pushing the range) and push it a bit. Seems to me that in addition to a few more kWh, we will need to replace tires.

Maybe the folks with the long wearing 422s can let us know if they are 100% ECO/hypermilers, or 'spirited'.

 

[sredlin]

I've got an ecopia question for the MNL hivemind....

Reading this thread it seems are getting lousy miles out of the 422s, and others are having no problem. I'm at 4600 miles on a 3 year lease, and have visible wear on the fronts. I'm worried I would make my 30k miles...although I got snows to take some of the miles.

Here's my hypothesis....driving in ECO or 'spirited'. We never drive in ECO (except rarely when we are pushing the range) and push it a bit. Seems to me that in addition to a few more kWh, we will need to replace tires.

Maybe the folks with the long wearing 422s can let us know if they are 100% ECO/hypermilers, or 'spirited'.

That seems like a good question here, because I'm confused about the huge range of experiences myself? It seems like some people do just fine with long wearing Ecopia tires and others wear them out very quickly. Mine have made it to 30k miles, but they have looked pretty bad for a while now. I also do not consider myself a "spirited driver" in the Leaf but I cannot claim to be a hyper-miler either, I would say I'm an average driver and drive in ECO mode most of the time, of course my wife may have a different opinion about this? Most of my mileage on these tires has been on the freeway, which may make a difference in wear versus someone who only drives on slower city streets and 2 lane county highways?

Anyway, I think I may go with Michelin MXV4 tires to replace my Ecopia tires, if anyone has any range comments about these Michelins, please share here, thanks.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I've got an ecopia question for the MNL hivemind....

Reading this thread it seems are getting lousy miles out of the 422s, and others are having no problem. I'm at 4600 miles on a 3 year lease, and have visible wear on the fronts. I'm worried I would make my 30k miles...although I got snows to take some of the miles.

Here's my hypothesis....driving in ECO or 'spirited'. We never drive in ECO (except rarely when we are pushing the range) and push it a bit. Seems to me that in addition to a few more kWh, we will need to replace tires.

Maybe the folks with the long wearing 422s can let us know if they are 100% ECO/hypermilers, or 'spirited'.

I'll take a stab at that. Some of the best mileage for Ecopias seems to come from the coastal PNW. Why? driving on wet roads and in cooler conditions reduces tire wear.

In addition to hypermiling — gentle acceleration and stops plus moderate speeds where practical — climate and terrain factors matter a lot in tire wear. As I think I mentioned upthread, where I live everyone gets many fewer miles out of tires than they are rated for. That's because living here involves many sharp curves on steep grades at high g forces. And many of us drive dirt/gravel roads.

I'm about to replace my tires today with about 22,600 miles on them — not down to the wear bars, but close. And I am quite pleased with that mileage although I expect to do a bit better on the next set of tires if I keep the car that long. But if I drove on roads that were mostly straight and relatively flat, usually at constant speeds, I would expect to get at least double that mileage, because I am a pretty good hypermiler. And if I drove in a rainy area with wet roads I would expect to get some additional miles out of tires.

So, it's not just "spirited" driving versus "hypermiling". It also has a lot to do with the type of roads one drives and the climate. That's why one should take the tire wear experiences of others with a grain of salt.

My 2¢.