Does it make sense to add genset to Leaf?

[Coffee_Slurry]

This comes up about once a week now.
I guess the best way to find out if there really is a market for people who would rent such an abomination is to Try It And See!

Hire some engineers, build a towable generator, make some warrany-voiding mods to the battery and set up shop renting these out. If you lose your savings while the trailers collect dust, and people rent an ICE car instead of your trailer, then I'm right!

If you make bank and have a steady stream of EV drivers renting ICE engines, then I'm wrong, and you're rich.

I know one customer you won't have.
Standing by.

 

[palmermd]

A gasoline powered generator on the roof of your Leaf?? Surely you jest. :lol:

Range extender on the roof has been done before....

 

[Interleaf]

A gasoline powered generator on the roof of your Leaf?? Surely you jest. :lol:

Heh - nowadays 6 KW gensets are no bigger than a large piece of luggage. Certainly no larger than one of those roof boxes you get from the auto store.

 

[Interleaf]

This was done for the RAV4EV. Toyota commissioned AC Propulsion to come up with a prototype. It apparently worked really well.

Meanwhile, you are probably producing many times the level of pollution of a modern ICE car. I'm sorry, but it just seems brain-dead to me. It's like using a sledge hammer to drive a finishing nail - use the right tool for the job.

Still less emissions and pollution than an ICE car per miles travelled in its lifetime.

The primary point of a Leaf is to get to your destination. The primary point is not to combat emissions. And I don't live in an idealized fictional bubble world thinking so. Remember - material reality trumps idealized social causes anytime. At least that is how rational people feel and think.

 

[Interleaf]

This was done for the RAV4EV. Toyota commissioned AC Propulsion to come up with a prototype. It apparently worked really well. Here are some details: http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm

If I were a company thinking of developing this commercially, I would offer it with a small amount of additional storage space and make it available for rent through U-Haul.

Great idea. Now Nissan has to be convinced to buy the idea.

BTW, it says the trailer is self propelled. I guess for the 1% of time that one is driving up a mountain pass (like those in Florida ) you would need self propulsion.

The cost can be drastically cut by removing the self-propulsion of the trailer.

 

[Interleaf]

If you make bank and have a steady stream of EV drivers renting ICE engines, then I'm wrong, and you're rich.

I know one customer you won't have.
Standing by.

Heh - while you stand by for the tow truck to show up with a genset to charge your battery or tow you to the next L3, for an arm & leg, I will be chugging along with a genset in tow.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Heh - while you stand by for the tow truck to show up with a genset to charge your battery or tow you to the next L3, for an arm & leg, I will be chugging along with a genset in tow.

Nope. I will never take my EV out of range of a charger. Today that means staying close (well, 50 miles) to home and work. Eventually I'll plan in a bigger radius as infrastructure appears. Maybe. Like most folks, I have other vehicles. If I put a tailpipe on the Leaf, then really, WTF was the point of that?

You're going to drive your Leaf around "chugging along" with a trailer, no warranty coverage, and a fuel tank. Hey, power to you, but I can't imagine this is going to be some kind of market movement.

I've been riding a motorcycle with a 2gallon (85 mile) tank for years, and never once ran out of gas. Really, it's not as hard as it sounds.
I don't think people will be Surprised by a dead battery. You will have more visibility into range than you ever had with a gas gauge. The only way to run out of power will be to plan to run out of power.

 

[mitch672]

If you are serious about this, then just buy a Prius, and convert it to a Plug In (PHEV), then you can have some EV miles (40-60 with the PICC conversion), then when you are runnjing on gasoline, you will be getting 50mpg, with great emissions controls, and a proven platform, and you won't end up with an "abortion" (sorry, no other way to describe what you want to do)

You can get great deals on Gen 2 Prius's (2004-2009 MY), and a PICC conversion is $13.5K for ther 12.5KW model, has a pure EV range of 40-60 miles, and can go up to 70mph in pure EV (although blended mode is more efficient at high speed due to air resistance). When the pack is empty, you wil "only" be getting the usual 45-50mpg of the Prius

You probably can't do any better than this, and there are no range anxiety issues. You can also choose when you use the EV (battery), or run in blended mode (both electricty and gasolline). PICC removes the standard Toyota pack, so you also get much more regen capability as well, if you live in a hilly area

 

[planet4ever]

This was done for the RAV4EV. Toyota commissioned AC Propulsion to come up with a prototype. It apparently worked really well.

If I were a company thinking of developing this commercially, I would offer it with a small amount of additional storage space and make it available for rent through U-Haul.

Great idea. Now Nissan has to be convinced to buy the idea.

That's going to take some convincing. From the LEAF warranty booklet (emphasis mine):

This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion resulting from or caused by:

• Failure to operate the vehicle in accordance with the OWNER’S MANUAL.
• Misuse, such as overloading, using the vehicle to tow, driving over curbs, or using the vehicle as a power source.

 

[Interleaf]

The only way to run out of power will be to plan to run out of power.

You mean otherwise rent a car, or borrow a friend's car for a week (fat chance), when you need to go to the boonies where there is no L3. Both non-options.

 

[Interleaf]

That's going to take some convincing [of Nissan].

Heh - so maybe Toyota is a bit more creative than Nissan to commission a trailer generator?

 

[EVDRIVER]

If you make bank and have a steady stream of EV drivers renting ICE engines, then I'm wrong, and you're rich.

I know one customer you won't have.
Standing by.

Heh - while you stand by for the tow truck to show up with a genset to charge your battery or tow you to the next L3, for an arm & leg, I will be chugging along with a genset in tow.

I'll take a pizza bet you don't put one on your roof or in tow. Make it an extra large with everything, even a couple glasses of wine. Are we on?

 

[mitch672]

I'll take a pizza bet you don't put one on your roof or in tow. Make it an extra large with everything, even a couple glasses of wine. Are we on?

He's not serious, because if he was, he would be looking at PHEV's, which are designed for this issue.
There are 2 alternatives, the Chevy Volt, and converting a Prius, or waiting for the Toyota PHEV (not until 2012 though)

 

[DaveEV]

Instead of towing a gen-set, it seems that towing an extra 24 kWh of battery would work out well along with tailer swap stations every 75 miles.

Drive 75 miles, swap out the trailer, top off the main pack for a few minutes with an L3 charge and off you go.

If the trailer is properly designed, it could probably be built to complement the aerodynamics of the car it's being pulled behind so as long as you aren't going up hills, it won't affect range significantly even if once it runs out of juice.

Such a setup would also minimize wear and tear on the main battery pack from repeated L3 charges on these trips.

The biggest issue I imagine would be having enough of them for heavy travel days such as Thanksgiving and 4th of July weekends. I suspect you'd need to plan your trip in advance and reserve them ahead of time - otherwise you'd need to rent an ICE.

 

[AndyH]

At least one OEM that marketed an EV pickup in the 1990s did their on-road torture testing with a genset. Even though the truck counts Amp-hours into and out of the pack (and shuts the truck down if the numbers don't work), they fed energy into the truck via the regen circuit in a charge sustaining mode. The truck just thought it was always running down a gentle hill.

There are ways to do it, and it'll likely be done once we get Leaf's 'in the wild', even if it doesn't make sense to some.

Drees - I love the battery trailer! What about a single-wheel stubby cross between a trailer and a cargo platform behind the car with ~100 100Ah cells? Should be low drag, minor weight/handling impact on the car, and good for about 100 miles of additional range. Hmmm...maybe the battery for my future off-grid home should be on wheels...

 

[mikee322]

There was a great question that everybody missed .. What is the Battery Voltage of the Leaf ?

 

[TomT]

Well, I wish anyone who tries these different "solutions" the best of luck. They still strike me as a solution looking for a problem... Hey, why not just tow a gigantic PV array?!

By the way, I believe the leaf battery pack voltage is in the neighborhood of 400.

 

[AndyH]

There was a great question that everybody missed .. What is the Battery Voltage of the Leaf ?

~350V nominal

AESC cells are nominal 3.6V. Four cells per module (14.4V nominal per module), 48 modules in the car (691.2V nominal)

But 691.2V nominal is over 800V at full charge - no way. It's looking like we have two modules in parallel (or two cells per module in parallel) or two independent parallel strings of 24 series modules. That gives us 345.6V nominal and a bit under 400V fully charged.

 

[smkettner]

I could see a battery pack to carry or tow but a generator? No way.
Nissan does not need to be convinced... I think the OP needs to bring this to market himself.
Post the demo video and we can go from there :roll:

 

[AndyH]

I'm not into neon or other 'tuner' stuff, but I think this would look cool in the 'way back' cargo cubby. :lol:

http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_Batterypacks.html
These are the folks that make the A123-Systems packs for KillaCycle and White Zombie.