Costs/Recommendations for installing 240V charger in garage

[cwstnsko]

If you want level 2 charging without upgrading the feeder to your garage panel, you might want to consider something that stays within the current rating of your existing service. You could have an L6-30 outlet installed on a 30 amp breaker and get something like an LCS-25P or EVSEUpgrade. This gives you 4.8kW charging which is still WAY faster (for me about 4-5x faster) than using 120V. When I did the math for my driving, the difference in charge time compared to a full 30A charger was not significant relative to my schedule. The 2 options mentioned are also quite portable, once you remove the staple from the wall, if that ends up being required.

 

[Valdemar]

I doubt it will be a <$500 job, just because of the overhead required for syncing up with with both LADWP and DBS from the electrician's point of view.

 

[mikeEmike]

Someone said the separate meter fee is $8 per month.
dgalvan you appear to have missed that in your cost analysis.
$8 is a lot. Have to be driving quite a lot and not charging at work for the 2.5 cents per kWh to just cover the meter rental.
Hard to see how separate meter would make much sense unless you are way up in Tier 3.

I haven't come across an $8/month fee for a separate meter in the LADWP literature. . . . LADWP on the phone said it costs $0 to switch your meter to TOU. Didn't mention any rental fee. Can anyone else confirm? (If confirmed, I'll factor that in to my earlier post.)

I was the one that mentioned the $8/month fee. It's stated here (single asterisk, next to TOU meters): https://www.ladwp.com/cs/idcplg?Idc...004810&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased

Other posters have mentioned that they aren't being charged this fee. My bill has been screwed up ever since I went TOU, but my last bill did have this charge on it (and no EV discount...go figure). I would make the assumption that they are going to charge you the fee. If they have stopped charging the fee, then consider it a bonus.

 

[dgalvan]

Ok I finally got an estimate from Roy at RG Electric, which gets good reviews on Yelp (http://www.yelp.com/biz/rg-electric-encino" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Total estimate including parts and labor: $2250.

This would be for:
-Running ~80 ft of thick conductor (rated for 50A) in external conduit (over the roof or under the eaves) from the main electrical panel on the back of my house, out to my garage. (I suspect this is the main driver of cost.)
-Installing either a 240V wall outlet in garage OR hardwire installing the EVSE.
-replacing the (currently missing) main panel cover (just the metal cover, not the actual panel or electrical connections. For some reason the panel cover was missing when we bought the house. . . noticed during inspection and compensated for in house purchase arrangement. I can't imagine this panel cover costs more than $100, so I doubt this is driving the cost.)

Note this estimate does NOT include the cost of installing an additional main panel for TOU. I expect that estimate would be even higher, which is consistent with what I was previously told by LADWP and the pre-estimate (~$3k) given by Roy.

JasonA (in this forum) mentioned earlier he expected the parts for running that much wire and conduit would be ~$400, and that maybe the cost of a full install (including parts, labor, permits, etc.) would be $500-$900 for a separate TOU panel install. That would seem to be a gross underestimate, at least for my situation. If anyone thinks otherwise, I would LOVE to get contact info for other recommended electricians!

 

[mikeEmike]

Ok I finally got an estimate from Roy at RG Electric, which gets good reviews on Yelp (http://www.yelp.com/biz/rg-electric-encino" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Total estimate including parts and labor: $2250.

This would be for:
-Running ~80 ft of thick conductor (rated for 50A) in external conduit (over the roof or under the eaves) from the main electrical panel on the back of my house, out to my garage. (I suspect this is the main driver of cost.)
-Installing either a 240V wall outlet in garage OR hardwire installing the EVSE.
-replacing the (currently missing) main panel cover (just the metal cover, not the actual panel or electrical connections. For some reason the panel cover was missing when we bought the house. . . noticed during inspection and compensated for in house purchase arrangement. I can't imagine this panel cover costs more than $100, so I doubt this is driving the cost.)

Note this estimate does NOT include the cost of installing an additional main panel for TOU. I expect that estimate would be even higher, which is consistent with what I was previously told by LADWP and the pre-estimate (~$3k) given by Roy.

JasonA (in this forum) mentioned earlier he expected the parts for running that much wire and conduit would be ~$400, and that maybe the cost of a full install (including parts, labor, permits, etc.) would be $500-$900 for a separate TOU panel install. That would seem to be a gross underestimate, at least for my situation. If anyone thinks otherwise, I would LOVE to get contact info for other recommended electricians!

I would recommend having the electrician(s) quote the main panel cover replacement separately. It's quite possible that this cover is no longer manufactured, and has to be custom made or bought secondhand, and the electrician might be padding the entire estimate based on this. If it's off the shelf, then it should not be expensive, but since this is completely separate from running the new circuit for the EVSE, keep it separate.

 

[dgalvan]

I was the one that mentioned the $8/month fee. It's stated here (single asterisk, next to TOU meters): https://www.ladwp.com/cs/idcplg?Idc...004810&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased

Other posters have mentioned that they aren't being charged this fee. My bill has been screwed up ever since I went TOU, but my last bill did have this charge on it (and no EV discount...go figure). I would make the assumption that they are going to charge you the fee. If they have stopped charging the fee, then consider it a bonus.

Thanks Mike. I updated my previous post doing the math and included the $8/month fee for having a separate TOU meter. That significantly increases the payback period for doing the separate TOU option, since it reduces the savings of getting the 2.5 c/kWh discount when compared with a Tier plan. This makes the incentives for adding a separate TOU meter (2.5 c/kWh discount plus $250 bill credit) far less attractive.

Range of payback periods for going with a separate TOU meter instead of just using existing Tier-plan usage with LADWP (when including the $8month fee for having a second, separate TOU meter):
AT LEAST 7.4 years if the separate meter/panel TOU install is $1500.
AT LEAST 16.3 years if the separate meter/panel TOU install is $3000. This seems the more likely install cost in my situation, since just installing a 240V line in my garage would be $2250 (without the cost of an additional TOU panel/meter).

 

[Valdemar]

Ok I finally got an estimate from Roy at RG Electric, which gets good reviews on Yelp (http://www.yelp.com/biz/rg-electric-encino" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Total estimate including parts and labor: $2250.

This would be for:
-Running ~80 ft of thick conductor (rated for 50A) in external conduit (over the roof or under the eaves) from the main electrical panel on the back of my house, out to my garage. (I suspect this is the main driver of cost.)
-Installing either a 240V wall outlet in garage OR hardwire installing the EVSE.
-replacing the (currently missing) main panel cover (just the metal cover, not the actual panel or electrical connections. For some reason the panel cover was missing when we bought the house. . . noticed during inspection and compensated for in house purchase arrangement. I can't imagine this panel cover costs more than $100, so I doubt this is driving the cost.)

Note this estimate does NOT include the cost of installing an additional main panel for TOU. I expect that estimate would be even higher, which is consistent with what I was previously told by LADWP and the pre-estimate (~$3k) given by Roy.

JasonA (in this forum) mentioned earlier he expected the parts for running that much wire and conduit would be ~$400, and that maybe the cost of a full install (including parts, labor, permits, etc.) would be $500-$900 for a separate TOU panel install. That would seem to be a gross underestimate, at least for my situation. If anyone thinks otherwise, I would LOVE to get contact info for other recommended electricians!

$2250 is high. Does it include the permit fee? I cannot imagine the panel cover will cost more than $100, you can get a completely new panel for like $150 (minus the breakers). With that the cost of materials for the job described should run $500 including the overhead. Which leaves $1750 for labor. I don't know if there are any technical difficulties involved but if everything is more or less straightforward I cannot imagine this taking more than 4-5 hours for a skilled professional to complete, so sounds like he wants $350 per hour which sounds high to me. I think it should be around $100/hr.

 

[dgalvan]

$2250 is high. Does it include the permit fee? I cannot imagine the panel cover will cost more than $100, you can get a completely new panel for like $150 (minus the breakers). With that the cost of materials for the job described should run $500 including the overhead. Which leaves $1750 for labor. I don't know if there are any technical difficulties involved but if everything is more or less straightforward I cannot imagine this taking more than 4-5 hours for a skilled professional to complete, so sounds like he wants $350 per hour which sounds high to me. I think it should be around $100/hr.

Yes that includes permit fee. Asked him to break out the cost of just the panel, but hasn't gotten back to me about that.

Meanwhile, I've called a second electrician, who told me that a panel cover (called a "deadfront", apparently for the reason you'd suspect) probably would need to be built-to-order, but still should be on the order of $80. So that panel isn't what's driving the cost.

That said, with what you are saying (5 hours of labor at $100/hour), I suppose I should expect the low-end estimate for this job (~$500 for labor plus $500 for materials) to be at least $1000. Even that, though, would be higher than I was originally expecting. And given it is not a necessity due to my free charging at work, I will probably decide not to have 240V installed in my garage for a good while. At least till I've saved up enough scratch to make it a smaller impact. (I just bought a car, after all!) Trickle charging is fulfilling my needs for now and will for the foreseeable future.

Because of my schedule, and the low urgency of my installing 240V, it will probably be another week or so before I get another estimate from the second electrician. Will post again when that happens.

Thanks again all for chiming in! Very helpful to get context and benefit from your experiences!

 

[Valdemar]

I'd say you can probably can find someone willing to run wires from the MSP to garage for $1000 or slightly less. Yes, it is an expense but there are times when you need to charge the car quicker than on 120V to go somewhere. If you don't have to take your ICE in such cases, and they occur relatively frequently, you can save on gas which will offset the initial investment. Also charging on 120V is less efficient, so you end up paying slightly more for the same amount of energy ending up in the battery.

There is also the EVSE upgrade route, for $300 you can modify the EVSE that comes with your car. You mentioned you already have a sub-panel in the garage that, sounds like, should have no problem supplying 20A continuous which is good for 5kW charging with the upgraded EVSE. You will need a new 240V outlet added from that panel, which shouldn't be more than $200. So for $500 you will be able to fully charge your car from empty to full in less than 5 hours instead of 15.

If you end up not getting a 240V setup make sure the 120V outlet is a heavy-duty one and is in a good condition and is on a 20A circuit, better dedicated than not. There were cases of fires reported from trickle charging, so the danger is real.

 

[cwstnsko]

I made a post earlier, but it disappeared into parts unknown. I was also recommending that you look at 20A charging options that are compatible with your existing wire run. Either the EVSEupgrade, or the Clipper Creek LCS-25P.

I recently purchased the Clipper Creek unit, and have been very impressed with the charge time. It is 4-5x faster than my Level 1 charger was.

This post is also serving as a test to help the admins figure out why my other post semi-disappeared, maybe the site just doesn't like my choice of car

 

[dgalvan]

Thanks very much, both of you, for the suggestion of a 20A EVSE! I hadn't even thought of that. My current wiring setup is rated to 40A, so a 20A draw should be no problem, and I expect would drop the cost of the install significantly, as the electrician would just need to connect it to my existing garage sub-panel. 20 A times 240V = 4.8 kW, which is probably still a 4-5 hour fill-up time (21 kWh / 4.8 kW = 4.4 h).

And with a 20A EVSE, I can still get in on LADWP's $750 EVSE rebate (which I expect will not be around all that much longer), with a relatively lower install cost than I'd incur for a 30A EVSE (which would require the additional wiring from the main panel).

I've texted Roy from RG Electric to see how much the job would be just to wire a 14-30 plug (or the 20A EVSE itself) to my garage sub-panel. I do still need to find out if LADWP will accept a plugin EVSE, maybe with the plug cord stapled to the wall as I've seen someone else mention to make it "permanent". Though maybe it's not too big a deal for a reasonably handy person to disconnect a "hardwired" EVSE install, in the event we end up moving in the future?

Years in the future I may end up getting another EV and then would definitely need to upgrade my wiring from the main panel to accommodate charging two cars. But I suppose I would need to do that anyway, as 50A rated conductor would probably not be enough to handle two EVs charging at 20A and 30A, respectively. So might as well save the money on that "big" install until I actually need to do it.

 

[dgalvan]

I would recommend having the electrician(s) quote the main panel cover replacement separately. It's quite possible that this cover is no longer manufactured, and has to be custom made or bought secondhand, and the electrician might be padding the entire estimate based on this. If it's off the shelf, then it should not be expensive, but since this is completely separate from running the new circuit for the EVSE, keep it separate.

The main panel cover is apparently ~$80 to have made special, or $160 if I were to purchase a whole new panel box with cover, but just use the cover. According to the electrician.

 

[Valdemar]

Thanks very much, both of you, for the suggestion of a 20A EVSE! I hadn't even thought of that. My current wiring setup is rated to 40A, so a 20A draw should be no problem...

I suspect the subpanel is fed by 10awg which should be protected by a 30A breaker, still it should be okay for up to 24A EVSE.

 

[dgalvan]

I suspect the subpanel is fed by 10awg which should be protected by a 30A breaker, still it should be okay for up to 24A EVSE.

It's actually protected by a 40A breaker on the main panel. Not sure the actual conductor gauge.

 

[Valdemar]

I suspect the subpanel is fed by 10awg which should be protected by a 30A breaker, still it should be okay for up to 24A EVSE.

It's actually protected by a 40A breaker on the main panel. Not sure the actual conductor gauge.

Wire size is what matters. If it is #10 on a 40A breaker this may well be a code violation depending on wire type and can be unsafe. If it is #8 and the sub rated for 40A or more you are good for a 30A EVSE.

 

[Rav4EVoom]

Yeah.. that totally sucks now, they've pulled back BIG time! EV rates on separate TOU back then are 6-8c/kwh flat off-peak. You can't beat that which is why everyone was doing the separate meter install and $2k jobs.

Those numbers you got are also waayyy out of line also. $3k for a separate EV panel install?? :lol: :roll: More like a $80 in parts.. and the most is just wire and time installed.

$3000.. WTF?? I'm still laughing.. LET ME RUN THIS DOWN FOR YA...
Meter socket.. $34
http://www.lowes.com/pd_232628-2174...pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=meter+sockets&facetInfo=
Breaker Box...$25
http://www.lowes.com/pd_36164-296-H...rentURL=?Ntt=breaker+panels&page=3&facetInfo=

And let's just say I know the wire prices pretty well at Lowes.. and you went REALLY big for a Rav or Tesla in your future and used #6 minimum... 80ft run.. plus conduit.. bends, little nick nacks, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc blah blah blah blah blah.
$380..


Again, if you need electricians let me know. I know 2. 1 that that did the actual EV panel and the other that did my solar/200a panel upgrade. It wouldn't take much for a stock Leaf.

As for EVSE's, that $750 is gravy! There are sooooo many options now.

Hi Jason,

I hope this message gets to you. Can you please recommend the electricians that can do the job for a great price? I assume they are licensed and can handle the permits and such?

Thanks a lot