Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[edatoakrun]

I swear I had no idea that Chevy would announce the Bolt's (slightly larger fraternal ICEV) twin today when I made that comment yesterday.

Check out the gallery at link below.

Chevrolet will add a hatchback Cruze to its lineup this fall, an effort to expand the appeal of the brand’s top-selling car.

Chevy confirmed today that it will unveil the 2017 Cruze hatch at the Detroit auto show next week. Photos released by General Motors show the car keeps the same face as the redesigned sedan -- a 2016 model that goes on sale this spring -- and sports wraparound tail lamps and an integrated rear spoiler at the top of the liftgate...

“It’s the perfect time to bring the Cruze hatch to America,” Chevrolet global brand chief Alan Batey said in a statement...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160107/OEM04/160109907/chevy-to-bring-hatchback-cruze-to-u-s-lineup?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+autonews%2FBreakingNews+%28Automotive+News+Breaking+News+Feed%29

...while many people say they want more range in a mass-market segment BEV, I'm not so sure how many will be willing to actually pay for it.

Especially if gas remains near $2 a gallon, and when you can buy a comparable ICEV at the same GM dealership, with more than twice the Bolt's range, at close to half the Bolt's price...

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I personally just don't get the "second car" thinking process... if you're buying a new car to sit around in second place, I'll bet the real economics don't pencil out so well.

For myself, and many others, it's not like that at all. My wife and I are a two-car household. We get along well enough to trade cars as the need arises. So the Leaf is one of two cars, but certainly not "sitting around in second place". I believe this is the mentality pkulak is referring to. People simply shorten that to "second car" (incorrectly, IMHO - it is one of many cars, not a "second car").

 

[EVDRIVER]

It's too bad GM made the car appear cheap looking with their boring details like the boxy american Chevette steering wheel and the terrible Chevy emblem that looks really bad on the car. If they styled it better it would not scare away consumers that have the money to buy it, they are so afraid of decent styling in the US they dumbed the car down to appeal to the masses which won't know the difference anyway. It has more econobox cues and it has been reported to have "comfort based handing". Seems they easily could have done better but the went more generic and At $37K plus I think they are going to have some issues. with the other potential offerings out there.

 

[BernieTx]

It's too bad GM made the car appear cheap looking with their boring details like the boxy american Chevette steering wheel and the terrible Chevy emblem that looks really bad on the car. If they styled it better it would not scare away consumers that have the money to buy it, they are so afraid of decent styling in the US they dumbed the car down to appeal to the masses which won't know the difference anyway. It has more econobox cues and it has been reported to have "comfort based handing". Seems they easily could have done better but the went more generic and At $37K plus I think they are going to have some issues. with the other potential offerings out there.

The biggest issue for the future of EV's is profitability. Nobody's making any money yet, because the technology is still very expensive, and demand is very low. It doesn't help that buyer's view current EV's as disposables, that should be leased cheaply for a short amount of time, and then sent to the junkyard. The situation is a little better with the Volt, where there are more buyer's than leaser's, and many of the Volt's will be used for their natural lifetime. Hopefully, the Bolt's 200mile EV range encourages more longer term buyers.

 

[evnow]

...while many people say they want more range in a mass-market segment BEV, I'm not so sure how many will be willing to actually pay for it.

Especially if gas remains near $2 a gallon, and when you can buy a comparable ICEV at the same GM dealership, with more than twice the Bolt's range, at close to half the Bolt's price...

It makes little difference whether Chevy has an ICE that is similar to Bolt at half the price or not. Competitors do (like Fit).

At this point (still), only people who want an EV go and buy an EV. Few people who will buy Bolt would have bought a cheap Chevy, anyway.

More important point is - once Leaf 2, Model 3 are available why would one buy a Bolt.

 

[ampitupco]

More important point is - once Leaf 2, Model 3 are available why would one buy a Bolt.

Perhaps.

I'm guessing the Bolt has a 12 month lead on the LEAF 2 and 24 month on the Model 3.

 

[mwalsh]

More important point is - once Leaf 2, Model 3 are available why would one buy a Bolt.

Well, I would. I like the Volt and expect the Bolt to be as good, if not better. I'm unlikely to be a repeat LEAF customer, and will probably never seriously consider anything from Tesla.

I will say though that I was more excited about some of the styling cues seen on the Bolts that reporters got to drive than those seen on the show floor, ones that I know simply aren't going to be on the production vehicle (the "frenched" mini headlamps for example, which I thought were pretty cool).

 

[garsh]

I personally just don't get the "second car" thinking process... if you're buying a new car to sit around in second place

You're misunderstanding the term.

It means that it can't be used in all situations, therefore you won't consider one unless you already own another car. I could never have a Leaf as my only vehicle. But it handles 95% of my drives, and gets used a lot more than my other vehicle.

 

[Bigboler]

I put a trip into the trip calculator that chevy has on the Bolt website http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html, Seattle to Centralia which is 85 miles, the calculator said I could do the trip with 31 miles left in the pack. So a highway range of 116 miles? not quite the 200 their talking about. not sure what data the calculator is basing the trip on.

 

[mwalsh]

I put a trip into the trip calculator that chevy has on the Bolt website http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html, Seattle to Centralia which is 85 miles, the calculator said I could do the trip with 31 miles left in the pack. So a highway range of 116 miles? not quite the 200 their talking about. not sure what data the calculator is basing the trip on.

Yeah, I put Garden Grove to Encinitas in for me. That's 65 miles I've driven very regularly in both my (degraded) LEAF and the Volt. The Volt it's a full charge and about .75 to 1 gallon of gas (depending on how fast I drive) each way; the LEAF it was a full charge plus about 10 minutes on the QC at SJC to be safe (although I possibly could have done it on one charge with a full capacity pack). The calculator gives me 59 miles left over after the one-way, so around 124 miles in total.

It could be that they're setting expectations on the low side, as they did with the Volt. Or it could be that the pack isn't really good for 200 miles unless it's on a very specific drive cycle. If it's the latter, that would be disappointing.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The Bolt seems simply underwhelming to me even as a basic EV. I think they will have a tough time unless Nissan screws up bad. I had some interest here but not any more.

 

[Weatherman]

I put a trip into the trip calculator that chevy has on the Bolt website http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html, Seattle to Centralia which is 85 miles, the calculator said I could do the trip with 31 miles left in the pack. So a highway range of 116 miles? not quite the 200 their talking about. not sure what data the calculator is basing the trip on.

Yeah, I put Garden Grove to Encinitas in for me. That's 65 miles I've driven very regularly in both my (degraded) LEAF and the Volt. The Volt it's a full charge and about .75 to 1 gallon of gas (depending on how fast I drive) each way; the LEAF it was a full charge plus about 10 minutes on the QC at SJC to be safe (although I possibly could have done it on one charge with a full capacity pack). The calculator gives me 59 miles left over after the one-way, so around 124 miles in total.

It could be that they're setting expectations on the low side, as they did with the Volt. Or it could be that the pack isn't really good for 200 miles unless it's on a very specific drive cycle. If it's the latter, that would be disappointing.

Definitely something fishy about either the trip calculator or the 200 mile+ range estimate. I put in Ft. Lauderdale to Naples (108 miles by Google Maps), and the calculator said I wouldn't make it on one charge.

Update: Now I see it's for a round-trip calculation. Makes a bit more sense, now. Still need to hope that a DCFC is available somewhere in the Ft. Myers area, or it would be a long wait to get back to the east coast.

 

[GRA]

Sadly, I doubt I'd every make it my only car. You still have to charge on road trips, and finding places to fast charge the Bolt is going to be even more onerous than the Leaf, which is already getting nearly impossible to charge away from home. But as a second car? If you can plug in at home, this can be your second car.

Holy crap, if you're in Portland, you have one of the best designed and implemented DC quick charge systems for the LEAF (all CHAdeMO) in the world. It is just the opposite for the Bolt, as there are few CCS charge stations in comparison.

Any car needs a robust refueling infrastructure for long distance travel, whether it is gasoline, electric, natural gas, diesel, or steam. I personally just don't get the "second car" thinking process... if you're buying a new car to sit around in second place, I'll bet the real economics don't pencil out so well.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/pdfs/WCEH_map.pdf

Oregon's CCS infrastructure has improved greatly in the past few months. Although it's still not as extensive as CHAdeMO, I-5 is completely covered down into California (especially with a nominal 200 miles of range), and you can at least get out to Pendleton on I-84. Always assuming no problems charging, of course, but see Plugshare for Oregon CCS.

 

[GRA]

Definitely something fishy about either the trip calculator or the 200 mile+ range estimate. I put in Ft. Lauderdale to Naples (108 miles by Google Maps), and the calculator said I wouldn't make it on one charge.

Update: Now I see it's for a round-trip calculation. Makes a bit more sense, now. Still need to hope that a DCFC is available somewhere in the Ft. Myers area, or it would be a long wait to get back to the east coast.

Had a look at my 'home to usual stop for gas' on the way to Yosemite. It's ~75 miles away, and the calculator says I can do the round trip with 51 miles left, so that's 200 miles. It's obviously just measuring distance against a flat 200 miles without any modification. GM did say that they planned to eventually provide range calcs that take account of topography (amusingly misspelled 'typography' in one article I read), weather, your driving style, etc. Kind of like Tesla's real-time range calculator, but judging by GM's success with the Volt and Spark's DTE, this one might actually be pretty accurate and logical, unlike Tesla's currently.

 

[edatoakrun]

...Oregon's CCS infrastructure has improved greatly in the past few months. (especially with a nominal 200 miles of range)....

Most all the CCS chargers in Southern Oregon and Northern CA are single 24kW units.

Meaning, it probably will take ~2 hours for 80% charge (from ~10% to ~90%) for a Bolt.

If the charger is both functional, and not in use.

And if Tesla puts out a CCS adapter...

A Bolt with 200 mile EPA city/highway combined range will not cover nearly that distance at freeway speeds, which may be what GM's calculator is showing on some routes.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

More important point is - once Leaf 2, Model 3 are available why would one buy a Bolt.

Why wouldn't they but a Bolt? Nissan hasn't exactly inspired confidence in the longevity of their batteries. Meanwhile, the Model 3's price will likely be much higher when comparably equipped. Besides, Tesla doesn't exactly have a stellar track record for quality and reliability.

And then there are people so enamored by the bowtie that they couldn't imagine themselves buying anything else. If the Bolt is to reach the mainstream consumers, you know they are amongst them.

Finally, GM designed the Bolt to be a ride-sharing mobile. I don't follow that scene, but there's probably enough of a market there in which the Bolt would have the edge.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I didn't have any issues with the range calculator. I put in Syracuse to Rochester (88.5 miles on google maps), and it told me I could make the ROUND TRIP (177 miles) with 23 miles remaining. That's a perfect 200 miles.

 

[GRA]

...Oregon's CCS infrastructure has improved greatly in the past few months. (especially with a nominal 200 miles of range)....

Most all the CCS chargers in Southern Oregon and Northern CA are single 24kW units.

Meaning, probably ill take ~2 hours for 80% charge (from ~10% to ~90%) for a Bolt.

If the charger is both functional, and not in use.

And a Bolt with 200 mile EPA city/highway combined range will not cover nearly that distance at freeway speeds, which may be what GM's calculator is showing on some routes.

Yup, 24 kW is less than 50kW, and the reliability of the 24kW units seems to be a bit spotty (but then, many of the CHAdeMO units aren't a byword for reliability either). And AFAIK, CCS holds the record for most non-Tesla QCs at one site (4), with at least some others having 2. The interesting thing will be whether the 150kW CCS QCs that Audi is talking about will be fully backward compatible.

 

[mwalsh]

I didn't have any issues with the range calculator. I put in Syracuse to Rochester (88.5 miles on google maps), and it told me I could make the ROUND TRIP (177 miles) with 23 miles remaining. That's a perfect 200 miles.

Yes, it is reporting round trips. I didn't read it correctly. However, 130 miles plus 59 miles is still only 189 miles total for my journey. LOL!

 

[dhanson865]

Bolt passenger space is 94.4cf compared to Volt 90cf, Leaf 92cf, and i3 84cf.
56.6cf max cargo space with rear seats down.

Lots of photos/screencaps:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=98937&d=1452118628
[img]http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=98801&d=1452088611
[img]http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=98809&d=1452088620
[img]http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=98897&d=1452117515
[img]http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=98881&d=1452117261[/quote]
I can't see any of those PICs using those URLs, maybe requires an account on that forum to view?