Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[GRA]

And if it does have ATM, I probably will not buy it.

I will base my decision on actual performance data, comparing BEVs with active and passive thermal management.

What will you base your decision on? <snip>

Can't speak for the OP, but personally, I'd base my decisions on the primary known factor that accelerates degradation (i.e. heat), as well as GM's conservative philosophy with the Volt (and Spark) packs, which seems to be working quite well in hot locations. The Focus' TMS appears to allow much higher pack temps than GM's does. If anyone's thinking about buying a BEV and keeping it for a long time (as opposed to leasing it for a few years and then letting it be someone else's problem), at current pack prices energy use takes a back seat to pack longevity when it comes to LCC, and that will remain the case for years yet.

I will only consider buying Leaf 2.0 if the battery capacity warranty equals or beats what the competition is offering. All the rest of Nissan's talk doesn't mean anything, after losing 25% of my battery capacity in 4.5 years.

Indeed. That's the one issue that does worry me about GM, that they haven't AFAIA offered a capacity warranty yet on any of their PEVs. OTOH, to date they haven't needed one. Nissan's warranty for the 30kWh based on bars whose value (publicly, at least) is undefined isn't worth the paper it's written on IMO, especially given their past behavior. That's one reason I thought the Soul EV would be very well received, given its long-term, unambiguous capacity warranty. Show's what I know.

 

[TomT]

And Nissan seems to be about the ONLY manufacturer not willing to talk about what is coming up, which makes me very suspect... How incredibly different than when the Leaf first came out...

I did ask if the Bolt would have a capacity warranty and was told yes... I then asked what it would be and was told that it would be better than anything that any other manufacturer provided... I couldn't get any hard numbers but they seem incredibly confident in their battery. Also incredibly different than Nissan...

Bottom line: Nissan has done absolutely nothing to earn my repeat business...

I will only consider buying Leaf 2.0 if the battery capacity warranty equals or beats what the competition is offering. All the rest of Nissan's talk doesn't mean anything, after losing 25% of my battery capacity in 4.5 years.

 

[Valdemar]

The only grey area in the Soul's case is how they determine the remaining capacity with no user accessible capacity instrumentation, which opens all sorts of possibilities for manipulation.

 

[EVDRIVER]

After seeing it at CES and talking to some GM product folks at length, my opinion is just the opposite! They have rolled some very nice tech and features in to it, and it is a very compelling package... My wife had the same feeling and thoughts...

I also have to admit that I managed to finagle a drive of the two they had there for the press (working the show helps), albeit on an abbreviated track... These two were less finished quality than the one on the show floor but drove very nicely. And the thing is quick! A much nicer driving experience than the Leaf...

The Bolt seems simply underwhelming to me even as a basic EV. I think they will have a tough time unless Nissan screws up bad. I had some interest here but not any more.

It's not difficult to improve on the LEAF performance, it's a bit of a joke. The Bolt should have at least a 0-60 time in under 7 seconds which is no big feat for an EV. What is the nice tech exactly?

 

[GRA]

The only grey area in the Soul's case is how they determine the remaining capacity with no user accessible capacity instrumentation, which opens all sorts of possibilities for manipulation.

Given the small number sold/leased in the short timeframe before much longer-ranged BEVs become available, I suspect it won't be a big problem, but there's nothing to stop someone from developing a SoulSpy.

 

[TomT]

0-60 is rated as 7 seconds. The product specialist said it is actually closer to 6.5...

Some of the nice tech is, in part, the best infotainment system I have yet seen, a guess-o-meter that actually takes in to account, terrain, elevation changes, temperature, weather and the like, a very versatile regen system that also works at 100% SOC, etc... It all appears to be very nicely done.

It's not difficult to improve on the LEAF performance, it's a bit of a joke. The Bolt should have at least a 0-60 time in under 7 seconds which is no big feat for an EV. What is the nice tech exactly?

 

[TonyWilliams]

There are four CHAdeMO / CCS combined stations at:

Actually there are more that that.

Seattle area has the following.

North Bend Premium Outlets, Seattle Premium Outlets, a Town Center Mall, Kia and BMW car dealers, ..


Total of 9 in Seattle now. Most installed in the past 6 months.

There are 9 locations that have 4 or more chargers per location? Wow!

 

[scottf200]

Via: http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/Jan/naias/chevy/0111-bolt-du.html

<snip>
The battery uses active thermal conditioning, similar to the Chevrolet Volt, to keep the battery operating at its optimum temperature, which results in solid battery life performance. The Bolt EV battery will be covered by an 8-year/ 100,000 mile (whichever comes first) limited warranty.
<snip>
The battery system is mated to a standard equipment 7.2 kW onboard charger for regular overnight charging from a 240-V wall box.
<snip>

 

[EVDRIVER]

0-60 is rated as 7 seconds. The product specialist said it is actually closer to 6.5...

Some of the nice tech is, in part, the best infotainment system I have yet seen, a guess-o-meter that actually takes in to account, terrain, elevation changes, temperature, weather and the like, a very versatile regen system that also works at 100% SOC, etc... It all appears to be very nicely done.

It's not difficult to improve on the LEAF performance, it's a bit of a joke. The Bolt should have at least a 0-60 time in under 7 seconds which is no big feat for an EV. What is the nice tech exactly?

Good news and nice additions. It's a shame the looks are still a bit econobox IMO, some things that could easily have been fixed. From a styling perspective it is amazing how the Chevy logo makes the car look bad, it is just too big and terrible looking like an outdated badge that looks cheap and reminds me of the old cars they used to make. Too bad it can't be removed or updated, it's bad on the Volt as well but not as bad.

At the price point of this car I think that Tesla can really take sales away if they are even $5K more with SC capability. There is a cross over section of these buyers that may pay more to get the super charging network which is a no-brainer if you travel far ever. I'm skeptical as I think price creep or big feature adds will make the Tesla further apart in price then expected. It will be interesting to see how things pan out but the ace in the hole for Tesla with one segment of the buying group will be their charge network. By the time the next model is out it should be even more robust and I can already see key areas filling in to meet the needs of a lower range car. Nissan will need some magic pricing if they don't have something exciting under the hood and new in the pack.

 

[TomT]

Actually, the production model looks much better in person (and definitely less econoboxish than the Leaf). My wife is very conscious of and sensitive to styling in general, and commented that it was "one very nice looking car..." The production model was in heather grey which, I think, is one of the better colors for it... GM has also fought the urge to use the butt-ugly wheels that so many manufacturers have on EVs in the name of aerodynamics...

Good news and nice additions. It's a shame the looks are still a bit econobox IMO, some things that could easily have been fixed.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Actually, the production model looks much better in person (and definitely less econoboxish than the Leaf). My wife is very conscious of and sensitive to styling in general, and commented that it was "one very nice looking car..." The production model was in heather grey which, I think, is one of the better colors for it... GM has also fought the urge to use the butt-ugly wheels that so many manufacturers have on EVs in the name of aerodynamics...

Good news and nice additions. It's a shame the looks are still a bit econobox IMO, some things that could easily have been fixed.

I'll wait to see one in person.

 

[WetEV]

There are 9 locations that have 4 or more chargers per location? Wow!

Misread on my part. I was under the impression you were discussing the lack of CCS. GRA is probably more correct, at two locations.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

This is an interesting and useful article on the Bolt EV development:

http://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mary-barra/

 

[lorenfb]

At the price point of this car I think that Tesla can really take sales away if they are even $5K more with SC capability. There is a cross over section of these buyers that may pay more to get the super charging network which is a no-brainer if you travel far ever. I'm skeptical as I think price creep or big feature adds will make the Tesla further apart in price then expected. It will be interesting to see how things pan out but the ace in the hole for Tesla with one segment of the buying group will be their charge network. By the time the next model is out it should be even more robust and I can already see key areas filling in to meet the needs of a lower range car. Nissan will need some magic pricing if they don't have something exciting under the hood and new in the pack.

The assumptions are that Tesla will provide free SC to Model E/3, that it will really be sub $40K, and that Tesla
can meet its 2017 delivery commitment, i.e. big assumptions! GM will have no problems meeting their late
2016 Bolt delivery date given that the Bolt specs are:

Key Specs:

1. Battery - 16 lbs/ kWh (very similar to Leaf but better than Spark @ 24lbs/kWh)
2. Motor - PM (like Leaf & Spark with less complex controller and not a less efficient induction motor like Tesla's)
3. Torque - 266 ib-ft (33% more than the Leaf but less than the Spark @ 400)
4. Gearing - 7:1 (similar to the Spark & less than the Leaf @ 8:1)

In summary, the Bolt is just a bigger Spark with about 3X the battery capacity. And not really much of a challenge
for Nissan to be competitive with Leaf 2 either versus Tesla's potential competitive challenge.

Bottom Line: Battery costs in late 2016!

 

[TomT]

I think it was telling that GM thinks enough of the Bolt to allow the press corps to drive the two pre-production models. (My favorite part was the gigantic, red, Emergency Stop button in the center of the console.) Can you imagine Nissan doing this? Me neither!

 

[Valdemar]

I think it was telling that GM thinks enough of the Bolt to allow the press corps to drive the two pre-production models. (My favorite part was the gigantic, red, Emergency Stop button in the center of the console.) Can you imagine Nissan doing this? Me neither!

Did you see the car in person? How does it compare to the Leaf in dimensions? It feels it is somewhere in between the Spark and the Leaf.

 

[scottf200]

I think it was telling that GM thinks enough of the Bolt to allow the press corps to drive the two pre-production models. (My favorite part was the gigantic, red, Emergency Stop button in the center of the console.) Can you imagine Nissan doing this? Me neither!

Did you see the car in person? How does it compare to the Leaf in dimensions? It feels it is somewhere in between the Spark and the Leaf.

Touches on inside here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDSn-4O-zDg


http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/Jan/naias/chevy/0111-bolt-du.html

Hip room, shoulder room, head room similar from spec

Bolt
Image: http://i.imgur.com/ELDeM5Y.png

LEAF
Image: http://i.imgur.com/kKvSEuX.png

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Some more specs from:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101775_2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-specs-released-battery-pack-motor-power-and-more

Haven't found the drag coefficient yet. But 60 kWh, 150 kW motor, 200 hp, and 266 lb-ft, starting at the price of a 2016 LEAF SL sounds pretty good.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The assumptions are that Tesla will provide free SC to Model E/3, that it will really be sub $40K,......!

My guess is that they will at least offer it as an option, I find it hard to imagine that they would not offer it at all. The Bolt is a possible dream come true for Tesla. It has the potential to push some buyers up a category and also to show the possible or perceived value of the Tesla even if it is $10K more.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Per this article:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1092373_aerodynamic-tesla-model-s-electric-car-wins-the-wind-tunnel-wars

The LEAF's claim of .28 Cd tests out at .32.