Can I trickle charge from same plug socket as garage door

[sirenbrian]

Hi everyone,
I've ordered a 2013 Leaf which I plan to trickle charge each night (120V) instead of installing a 240V EVSE. I only drive 30 miles a day, so I'm quite certain this will be sufficient to top the car up every night.

My garage has a 120V plug socket in the ceiling, which connects to a 15A breaker in the wall panel. The garage door opener is currently connected to this plug socket and we use it several times each day, of course.

My 1st "gee I hope this works" idea is to put an ordinary splitter on this plug socket and connect BOTH the garage door opener AND the Leaf's trickle charger at the same time, on the assumption that for most of the day, only one of these will be active at a time.

My question is this; will the breaker be tripped if the LEAF is charging and I open the garage door? Or will the LEAF temporarily stop drawing power while the door is opened/closed, then resume charging when the garage door opener has completed its work?

I'm assuming that the breaker would trip, but I thought I'd ask. I'm really looking forward to getting the car!

 

[MikeD]

It would likely not trip if the Leaf takes around 12a and the garage door opener not more than 3a like mine. If the opener takes much more than 3a, if may trip.

 

[RegGuheert]

Hi everyone,
I've ordered a 2013 Leaf which I plan to trickle charge each night (120V) instead of installing a 240V EVSE. I only drive 30 miles a day, so I'm quite certain this will be sufficient to top the car up every night.

Congratulations!

My garage has a 120V plug socket in the ceiling, which connects to a 15A breaker in the wall panel. The garage door opener is currently connected to this plug socket and we use it several times each day, of course.

My 1st "gee I hope this works" idea is to put an ordinary splitter on this plug socket and connect BOTH the garage door opener AND the Leaf's trickle charger at the same time, on the assumption that for most of the day, only one of these will be active at a time.

Well, if you are saying you have an adapter for a light socket that gives you a plug for your garage door opener, then I say don't do it! If you are saying that you have an outlet on your ceiling with only one plug in it, then I recommend that you replace that outlet with a heavy-duty duplex outlet (2 plugs). Do NOT use push-in connections for the wires, but rather wire them under screw on the outlet. If you are uncomfortable doing this, then hire an electrician to do it. Then plug the EVSE into one outlet and the garage door opener into the other one. Be sure to build a shelf to hold the EVSE, as you are not supposed to use an extension cord and it must not be hung from its cord.

My question is this; will the breaker be tripped if the LEAF is charging and I open the garage door? Or will the LEAF temporarily stop drawing power while the door is opened/closed, then resume charging when the garage door opener has completed its work?

No, the breaker will not trip due to a LEAF charging and a garage door opening. But are you POSITIVE there are no other loads connected to that breaker?

Enjoy your new LEAF! And please tell us all about the 2013 when you get it!

Edit: More information: I measured our garage door opener while operating and it draws about 5 Amps, which is more than I had expected. About 0.5 amps of that is from the lights in the opener. I have previously measured our EVSE draw at over 13 amps. Together, this could result in an 18A draw or even more if your garage door opener draws more current than ours. Still, I do not expect your breaker to blow. Why? Because breakers are designed to blow immediately only if the current exceeds the limit by a large margin. If you just go slightly above the trip current, it takes more time for the breaker to blow. I doubt that the ten seconds it takes to open the garage door is enough to cause your breaker to blow.

If I am wrong and it DOES blow, I recommend that you remove the light bulbs and test it again. Removing two 60W bulbs should reduce the load by one amp. If that gets you going, then replace the incandescents with the new L-prize LED lamps from Philips which use about 8W each and put out more light. If that doesn't get you going, then you might want to replace the circuit breaker with a new one ($10) and see if that makes a difference. In any case, be sure to replace the outlet with a heavy-duty duplex units and make sure the wires are not simply stabbed into the back of the breaker.

 

[sirenbrian]

Thank you for the advice, I will print this out and show it to an electrician! I'm definitely not messing with wiring myself I can't find another plug socket anywhere in the garage, but the breaker box has TWO 15A breakers of interest: one says "garage door" and one says "garage". I'm assuming the "garage" one is connected to another plug socket, but I can't find it. I've kept the garage fairly tidy, but one wall is used entirely for storage and the socket may be behind there. I might have to roll up my sleeves and move EVERYTHING and see if the socket is back there. If so, I'll use it as the charger for the Leaf.

The only other electrical devices in the garage are flourescent lights and an electric water heater who's power cable just goes right into the wall, through the plaster. I assume the water heater has its own 240V supply somewhere.

 

[RegGuheert]

I might have to roll up my sleeves and move EVERYTHING and see if the socket is back there. If so, I'll use it as the charger for the Leaf.

That would be a good plan. It's possible that second breaker is only for the lights, which likely draw 3 or 4 amps. But definitely look for a wall outlet. When I installed an outlet for our upgraded EVSE I intentionally put it behind a shelf so that the EVSE could sit comfortably on the shelf above the plug. If you find one there, still replace it with a heavy-duty unit and ensure the wires are not stabbed into the back, but rather are secured under screws.

 

[Reddy]

I have for nearly two years. A couple of times the door failed to go down, but didn't trip the breaker. The door is downstream from where I plug the Leaf in, so there may have been a low voltage. I now run the door before plugging the Leaf in so the problem doesn't occur. BTW, 30 mi/day should be easy on L1.
More here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10776&p=247635#p247635

Reddy

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ummm, hmmm, too late to look now but cant think of a house i lived in where the garage door plug was wired in with the lighting in the garage.

i venture to say that it "might" work if the lights are off but what is your garage door rated at? 3 HP? more? you taxing the limits of that plug if you are pulling 12 amps.

i would say a dedicated 120 volt plug is a pretty cheap option. running surface mounted conduit on the garage ceiling is a relatively easy DIY project...

 

[smkettner]

I speculate the surge from the garage door motor starting will periodically trip the breaker if LEAF is charging at the same time.
I would use no adapters to plug in LEAF. Get a duplex outlet and a #12 wire extension cord.

I think you will end up pulling wire. May as well be 40a 240v. Although you would do fine with 20a 240v and a Leviton 160.
No 30a dryer outlet?

 

[sirenbrian]

Very handy replies, everybody, thank you again!

The garage door opener draws 5.5 amps, so in combination with the 12A of the Leaf level 1 EVSE, that would exceed the rated tolerance of the breaker.

Would it be bad/insane to put a 20A breaker on that circuit instead of the 15A? I presume its set at 15A for a reason - the wiring behind it might melt/short-circuit/summon demons if I put 17.5A through it?

The flourescent lights I mentioned are physically close to the garage door opener, but I cannot tell if they're drawing from the same wiring that leads to the plug socket that the garage door opener is using.

Re: the dryer circuit. The laundry room is right next door, and the water heater in the garage has a thick silvery cable coming out of the top and feeding straight into the wall, directly into the plaster. I assume its connected to the same 240V circuit that the dryer uses, but I am going to avoid 240V for now, unless I find nightly L1 charging insufficient.

On a side note, I work right across the road from Florida Power and Light's Juno Beach HQ. They have a huge solar array in the parking lot, with 8 Level 2 Blink chargers underneath it and room for 16 cars (They have 3 Leafs and 2 Volts, and a Think City). Its not open to the public, but I've asked if I can use it sometimes. Worst they can say is "no", I suppose.

 

[smkettner]

No you probaby cannot swap the 15a for a 20a. You would need #12 wire.

I am fairly certain the dryer outlet and the water heater are on separate dedicated circuits. Very odd to be common.

 

[davewill]

Very handy replies, everybody, thank you again!

The garage door opener draws 5.5 amps, so in combination with the 12A of the Leaf level 1 EVSE, that would exceed the rated tolerance of the breaker.

Would it be bad/insane to put a 20A breaker on that circuit instead of the 15A? I presume its set at 15A for a reason - the wiring behind it might melt/short-circuit/summon demons if I put 17.5A through it? ...

It depends on the wiring, but in general, YES CHANGING THE BREAKER WOULD BE BAD. Honestly, I think you're in a "penny wise, pound foolish" mode of thought here. In your shoes, I would simply bite the bullet, have an electrician run you a proper 240v line and install an L2 EVSE (or have your L1 upgraded).

If you insist on living with L1, still have an electrician wire you a proper dedicated line. If he uses the right wire, it can be upgraded later to 240v just by changing the breaker and the receptacle. No sense burning your house down trying to save a few bucks.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The flourescent lights I mentioned are physically close to the garage door opener, but I cannot tell if they're drawing from the same wiring that leads to the plug socket that the garage door opener is using.

yes you can. turn on lights, turn off breaker. see what happens.

your best bet is put in dedicated charging circuit if you have the panel room. its cheap. now getting EVSE mod and using dryer plug is an option which i am currently doing but the socket is not made to be plugged and unplugged that much so be prepared to replace your dryer plug in the future. now how long will it last? a year?? i dont know. I have been doing it for 3 months now and so far so good...

 

[SanDust]

I had a friend visiting for a week and used the exact setup you're talking about for Volt. Worked fine. I have another friend with this charging setup for his Volt. He's been using this for over a year and it's also worked fine.

Now a Volt isn't a Leaf but charging should be similar. I know my circuit was 15A and I think it's highly likely his is likewise 15A. A garage door doesn't operate for very long and circuit breakers are usually forgiving for short periods, which may be why it's not an issue. If you set your charging for late at night you'll minimize the likelihood that the car will be charging when the door is being opened or closed.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

My opener is running off a ceiling 15 AMP circuit. I can't remember if the single light in the garage (60W incandescent) runs on the same circuit or not. I do trickle charge here and have for 4 months now.

Frankly I'm surprised that I never trip the breaker, but I don't; when the charger is going there has never been a problem opening or closing the door (and when it opens and closes two 15W CFLs are going also). I guess the opener doesn't pull many watts, even at start-up.

Would it be bad/insane to put a 20A breaker on that circuit instead of the 15A? I presume its set at 15A for a reason - the wiring behind it might melt/short-circuit/summon demons if I put 17.5A through it?

Not to code, for reasons mentioned (wire is rated to 15A). However, in practice since the garage door opening is running for only 10 seconds at a time I'd be surprised if this ever caused you any problem. But, as already mentioned, it's against code and strictly speaking is a no-no. I doubt you need it.

The reason I trickle charge (and many people do all the time, never going 240V) is so i didn't have to run any more wire AND pay the extra money for the charging equipment, even though there is a fairly cheap way to do it.

I do 1000 miles/month on the car. Every month or so there is a time I need to take my other car because this one's charge is too low, but it's no biggie. Otherwise trickle charging works fine.

-----

FWIW for a few weeks I was running on another circuit and it was ok until somebody used a hair dryer on the same circuit, but those things pull a lot of juice.

I strongly recommend high amp extension cords. I used one that technically was rated to 13 or whatever, but it was thin, and in any case it caused browning after a few weeks use by the socket in the wall (!).

 

[TEG]

A whole other take on this:

You can set an "end at" charge timer on the LEAF. Say for 5AM.
Then when you put the car in the garage at night, and plug in, it isn't drawing any current yet.
You close the door, walk away, and during the middle of the night (while the door remains closed) the car charges. When you open up the door next time in the morning charging is already done.
So the opener never runs while the car is charging.
That is what I do.

 

[SanDust]

Frankly I'm surprised that I never trip the breaker, but I don't; when the charger is going there has never been a problem opening or closing the door (and when it opens and closes two 15W CFLs are going also). I guess the opener doesn't pull many watts, even at start-up.

Actually it would be surprising if it did trip. On the thermal side, the rule of thumb is that your 15A breaker can probably go to 200% of rating for 10 seconds to 30 minutes before it trips (40C). You're probably at 100% for 20 seconds, which won't put you anywhere near a tripping point. The magnetic side is more accurate but you'd need 500 amps for a few milliseconds before it would trip, and, again, you're not anywhere close to this.

 

[kubel]

I don't think it will trip in the 10 seconds or so it takes to lift the door.

 

[TLeaf]

I've never tried charging our LEAF using 120V in the garage (I had a Blink unit installed before we even got the LEAF and it's never been down), but I routinely charge my Vectrix scooter in the garage and have managed to trip the breaker several times when I forgot to unplug the scooter before opening the garage door. The Vectrix pulls around 12A while charging, sometimes a bit less, but that draw combined with the garage door opener is definitely enough to trip the breaker every time irregardless of whether or not the lights are on in the garage (same circuit) and/or whether or not the lights are on in the opener (all lights are CFLs, by the way). As a further point of reference, this is in a house built in 2000.

I'd say run a separate line for the 120V charging OR make absolutely certain that you only charge at times when you wouldn't be opening the garage door.

 

[TEG]

One thing about breakers I learned is that they can gradually wear out.
At first it might allow burst of overrating, but over time, particularly if you are drawing near rating current for extended periods, as you would with charging, it can grow more sensitive.

So you might get away with it for a while, but after some time it might start getting "fussy" and tripping.
I suppose you can always replace the breaker if that happens though.

I think the garage door motor may have a momentary spike in current when it first starts to spin up.
So you may be pulling far more than rated breaker current for a brief period when the door first starts moving. A "Kill-A-Watt" meter isn't really going to show you that. You would need some sort of logging meter to watch the spike.

 

[SanDust]

I've never tried charging our LEAF using 120V in the garage (I had a Blink unit installed before we even got the LEAF and it's never been down), but I routinely charge my Vectrix scooter in the garage and have managed to trip the breaker several times when I forgot to unplug the scooter before opening the garage door.

For giggles try with the Leaf. I'd be surprised if the breaker trips.