Bad news for people who got degrees from Univ of Tennessee

[LTLFTcomposite]

Not sure which is worse, the flawed science or the bad journalism.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-02/uota-urf021012.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Always start with the assumption that gasoline is a naturally occurring substance.

 

[garypq]

I'm embarrassed to be living in Knoxville. And I'm embarrassed for the UT faculty that would promote such a theory as relevant, and for the NSF.

I didn't realize that my Leaf is powered by electricity from China.

 

[Smidge204]

This sounds like a problem with China's reliance on coal power, and their coal power technology, rather than anything having to do with electric cars...

=Smidge=

 

[ebill3]

Not sure which is worse, the flawed science or the bad journalism.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-02/uota-urf021012.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Always start with the assumption that gasoline is a naturally occurring substance.

How do you know the science is flawed? Have you studied emissions in China?

Bill

 

[padamson1]

How do you know the science is flawed? Have you studied emissions in China?

The science is flawed b/c it is a station-to-wheels analysis vs a well-to-wheels analysis. If you ignore how the gas gets to the ICE, it isn't a valid comparison. If one compares it to earlier, more complete, well-to-wheels studies they are basically saying that Chinese power plants are either less efficient or pollute more than coal plants in Europe & US or both. I can't disagree with the observation that electric bicycles are better than anything else, even if the electricity came from a nasty source.

In addition to ignoring the cost of getting fossil fuels to the cars (which of course is the major omission in the study that makes the whole summary inaccurate), I also doubt the study took into consideration:
1) Cars in China are not as well maintained compared in Europe or US, so they pollute more than what the manufacturer's spec would state. More cars I've seen in action in China are burning oil & spewing all kinds of soot into the air (which I bet they didn't do when they were originally sold by the dealer).
2) Pollution from changing the oil, antifreeze, etc in China. I doubt they have nearly the number of regulations and enforcement in China, E-cars contribute no pollution in this area.
3) It is a lot easier to verify & clean up a few hundred power plants than hundreds of thousands of cars.

 

[garypq]

Would it be a fair question to ask why UT and the National Science Foundation are spending US taxpayer and tuition dollars to study the effects of electric cars in China?

 

[LakeLeaf]

However - if you are forced to visit UT or the greater Knoxville area (which I am), you can forget all of this while enjoying some incredible smoked prime rib and corn pudding at Calhoun's on the river. The wait staff will bring you a new appreciation for UT.

 

[garypq]

I concur. But then I've also totally enjoyed my trips to Tahoe, as well.
Let me know when you are in town, and we can enjoy some BBQ!
Staying on topic, I wonder how the particulate pollution from a good BBQ smoker in Tennessee compares to a cell phone charger in Bangalore. . . .

 

[DarkStar]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/longtailpipe/index.html

 

[Yanquetino]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/longtailpipe/index.html

Hey... thanks, DarkStar, for referencing my web page!

 

[thankyouOB]

this is a duplicate of a previously posted discussion.

 

[LakeLeaf]

I concur. But then I've also totally enjoyed my trips to Tahoe, as well.
Let me know when you are in town, and we can enjoy some BBQ!
Staying on topic, I wonder how the particulate pollution from a good BBQ smoker in Tennessee compares to a cell phone charger in Bangalore. . . .

Hi garypq - nice to meet you.

I get to visit "the area to the east of you" on about a quarterly basis. I will definitely shoot you a PM next time I'm heading down. Would love to try a few new bar-b-q places there. Oh - that's not pollution - it's God's gift to the atmosphere!

There is this shack in an empty lot not far from the Hall of Fame which is supposed to be excellent - but every time I've been in town it's been closed - so I don't know if they are still operating or not. Always up for some good barbeque!

If you get out to Tahoe - shoot me a message. Bummer that this winter is so bad. Last year - 60 feet of snow, this year only about 3 feet so far

-LL

 

[LakeLeaf]

this is a duplicate of a previously posted discussion.

so I don't feel so bad hijacking to talk of barbeque. Ya can't save the planet on an empty stomach!

 

[kennyboy]

Hmmmm...

Pollute once when you produce electricity, then use electricity to power car

or

Pollute once to produce electricity, pollute a second time while using electricity to refine oil into gasoline, pollute a third time while burning gasoline.


EV = pollute once (and amount decreases as grid becomes greener)

ICE= pollute 3 times

Is this not correct?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Also when you say "dirty coal", is that in contrast to "clean coal" in which there is carbon sequestration? If so, the distinction should be made between "clean coal", "dirty coal", and "really dirty coal", with the latter being without scrubbers that clean the flue gasses. I am under the impression scrubbers are common if not nearly universal in the US, but not so much in China.

 

[Nekota]

The dirty air in China is not CO2 but particulate matter (fly ash) which contains other elements which are not the best thing to inhale. For more information Google Fly Ash China Coal or consider the following link.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20101003/coal-ash-cloud-looms-large-over-china" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[BRBarian]

...with the latter being without scrubbers that clean the flue gasses. I am under the impression scrubbers are common if not nearly universal in the US, but not so much in China.

This is exactly the issue. The target for the research report from UT should be the Chinese government. Is it enough to simply move the pollution from downtown Shanghai (which is horribly polluted), to the distant countryside (which is also full of people, just not so many)?

Oh.. And another target should be the GOP. They are trying to gut regulations that improve coal burning power plant scrubbing here in the US (e.g. mercury emissions). Generating electricity in the most polluting manner does threaten many of the benefits of driving an electric car.

 

[BRBarian]

Would it be a fair question to ask why UT and the National Science Foundation are spending US taxpayer and tuition dollars to study the effects of electric cars in China?

Because we can learn from their mistakes.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

They are trying to gut regulations that improve coal burning power plant scrubbing here in the US (e.g. mercury emissions).

Link?

 

[BRBarian]

Link?

"Springtime for Toxics"
By Paul Krugman
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/opinion/krugman-springtime-for-toxics.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;