Bad news for people who got degrees from Univ of Tennessee

[thankyouOB]

Link?

"Springtime for Toxics"
By Paul Krugman
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/opinion/krugman-springtime-for-toxics.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hat tip to you.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

And I’m not exaggerating: during the fight over the debt ceiling, Republicans tried to attach riders that, as Time magazine put it, would essentially have blocked the E.P.A. and the Interior Department from doing their jobs.

He claims to not be exaggerating, but neither is he offering any specifics. Who are "Republicans"? Do they have names, or is this some amorphous organism? And exactly what were in these "riders"? Did they specifically preclude the EPA from limiting mercury emissions from power plants? How would the EPA and Interior Department have been block from doing their jobs? By cutting out donuts at meetings?
I guess we all owe Krugman a debt of gratitude for feeding us vague quotes from Time magazine.

 

[AndyH]

And I’m not exaggerating: during the fight over the debt ceiling, Republicans tried to attach riders that, as Time magazine put it, would essentially have blocked the E.P.A. and the Interior Department from doing their jobs.

He claims to not be exaggerating, but neither is he offering any specifics. Who are "Republicans"? Do they have names, or is this some amorphous organism? And exactly what were in these "riders"? Did they specifically preclude the EPA from limiting mercury emissions from power plants? How would the EPA and Interior Department have been block from doing their jobs? By cutting out donuts at meetings?
I guess we all owe Krugman a debt of gratitude for feeding us vague quotes from Time magazine.

You got questions, we got answers. (Hmmm...not sure I can use that. Anyway...)

Put another way: "Dude - where've you been?" :lol:

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011...mpeo-were-trying-to-defund-the-epa/?mobile=nc

Pompeo is hardly the only Republican to state plainly that defunding the EPA is one of the GOP’s primary goals. In July,
Rep. Mike Rogers (R-AL) said the EPA “would be discontinued” if the GOP gained control of the Senate and the White House.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20110308/articles/110309715

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's plan to set nutrient pollutant standards for Florida's waters suffered a political setback Tuesday when Republican U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio asked the Senate's Appropriations Committee to defund the federal agency's water criteria for the state.

Congress returns with Clean Air Act in its sights
http://www.lung.org/about-us/our-impact/top-stories/congress-returns-clean-air-act.html
http://www.fightingforair.org/news/

House Republicans Move to Undo Protections From Mercury Pollution
http://earthjustice.org/news/press/...ve-to-undo-protections-from-mercury-pollution

House Republicans Try to Undo EPA Air Pollution Rules
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jan2011/2011-01-11-01.html

Inhofe Optimistic about rolling-back toxics rule:
http://governorswindenergycoalition.org/?p=1176

I'll include the bulb 'ban' here as well, because reducing energy consumption has a direct impact on power plant emissions...
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...scent-light-bulbs-but-doesnt-quite-save-them/

The Republican fight for "Freedom to Pollute" - since at least 2003...
2003 Congressional Record discussing the air toxics rule

 

[AndyH]

The dirty air in China is not CO2 but particulate matter (fly ash) which contains other elements which are not the best thing to inhale. For more information Google Fly Ash China Coal or consider the following link.

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20101003/coal-ash-cloud-looms-large-over-china" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll toss this in just because it provides a visual or three...

http://www.wiley.com/college/raven/0470118571/videos/ch13/renewable_energy_sources.swf

 

[Smidge204]

He claims to not be exaggerating, but neither is he offering any specifics. Who are "Republicans"? Do they have names, or is this some amorphous organism?

Considering the bizarre hive-mind that congressional Republicans have (and the quick, severe retribution for anyone who dares speak out of line), calling today's GOP "some amorphous organism" might be humorously apropos.

Much of the anti-EPA text was ultimately churned out by the Republican-Controlled (by 8-5 majority) "House Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies."

Mike Simpson (R-ID - Chairman), Ken Calvert (R-CA - Vice Chair), Jerry Lewis (R-CA), Steven LaTourette (R-OH), Tom Cole (R-OK), Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Cynthia Lummis (R-WY), Hal Rogers (R-KY).
=Smidge=

 

[thankyouOB]

our florida friend with the non-transparent tag likes to parrot from the right. I see that allot and then he denies it.
nothing wrong in asking for cites; I found about 40 with a google search, as did others.
I am not sure why anyone who is awake and reading would challenge the assertion that the GOP isnt anti-EPA.
I think you hear that dig somewhere in every speech by their presidential candidates.

they certainly dont want to regulate greenhouse gases, mercury, CO2, particulate matter, and frequently claim that the EPA regulations are throttling business.

here is the google of just EPA and GOP:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gop+epa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
E.P.A. Draws Harsh Words From Most G.O.P. Candidates - NYTimes ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/us/politics/18epa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Aug 17, 2011 – Republican presidential hopefuls are portraying the Environmental Protection Agency as a symbol of a heavy-handed regulatory agenda that ...
Mitt Romney EPA Debate Question: GOP Candidate Skirts Stance ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../mitt-romney-epa-cross-state-ai.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Chris Gentilviso

by Chris Gentilviso · More by Chris Gentilviso
Jan 9, 2012 – During Sunday morning's GOP debate, presidential hopeful Mitt Romney tiptoed his way through a contentious environmental issue. Romney ...
Sen. Boxer Warns EPA Provision In GOP Tax Cut Bill Will Lead To ...
http://www.foxnews.com/.../sen-boxer-warns-epa-provision-in-gop-tax-cut.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Dec 14, 2011 – Sen. Barbara Boxer warned Tuesday that more than 8000 people will die every year if Congress passes the Republican-backed payroll tax cut ...
EPA to be GOP target in 2012 - Erica Martinson - POLITICO.com
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68265.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nov 13, 2011 – The idea that agency regulations hurt the economy is already a familiar refrain among the candidates.
GOP attacks on EPA ignore the probem - Carl Hiaasen ...
http://www.miamiherald.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; › Opinion › Columnists › Carl Hiaasen
Aug 21, 2011 – Dutifully following their Tea Party scripts, most of the Republican presidential candidates have declared war on the Environmental Protection ...
Republicans' Debt-Ceiling-Deal Agenda: Defund the EPA - TIME
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2086421,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Aug 2, 2011 – Hidden inside the debt negotiations, Republicans saw an opportunity to cut funding to the country's environmental agencies. It isn't the first ...
The GOP's EPA Ambush | Mother Jones
motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/republican-epa-ambush
Mar 11, 2011 – Taken as a whole, says Franz Matzner, climate and air legislative director at the Natural Resources Defense Council, the House GOP's EPA ...
Neela Banerjee | GOP plans attacks on the EPA and climate ...
articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/30/.../la-na-epa-battle-ahead-20101030
Oct 30, 2010 – If the GOP wins control of the House next week, senior congressional Republicans plan to launch a blistering attack on the Obama ...
House GOP looks to curb EPA rules on concrete – USATODAY.com
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/...EPA...GOP-Republicans/.../1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sep 29, 2011 – Republican lawmakers, after stepped up lobbying by the concrete industry, are looking to curb new EPA rules.
Analysis: Republicans turn sights on activist EPA | Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/.../us-usa-epa-attack-idUSTRE77F5H220110816" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Aug 16, 2011 – WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Emboldened by their success wresting concessions from the Obama administration in debt-limit talks, House ...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

our florida friend with the non-transparent tag likes to parrot from the right. I see that allot and then he denies it.

What did I "parrot"? I don't see where I denied anything, to do so would be disrespectful to Holocaust victims.

I have said before and will say again these people don't speak for me. My objection to the Krugman article is this lazy sort of "Republicans say this, Republicans say that" writing. Republicans don't say things, people do, and to assume that all of an individual's views on a wide range of topics fit neatly into one of two columns is as nonsensical as associating you with the party of slavery.

On a side note, you may be the first to comment on my "tag"; it's taken nearly two years.

Peace out thankyouOB (whatever that means, I would think nothing less of your opinions if you had picked a random hex string)

 

[AndyH]

...
I have said before and will say again these people don't speak for me. My objection to the Krugman article is this lazy sort of "Republicans say this, Republicans say that" writing. Republicans don't say things, people do...

Republicans are people too. (And so are corporations, apparently...)

While I get your point about the article, seeing the truth beyond the black and white on the page assumes some awareness of what's been happening in the country since before the 2010 elections...


Tag? Now I need a clue!


edit...Sigh...right on cue:

From EDF at 1PM:

The final version of the life-saving Mercury and Air Toxics rule EDF donors and activists supported with 82,631 comments over the last year was published in the Federal Register today.

This clean air standard will prevent up to 11,000 premature deaths, 130,000 asthma attacks, and 4,700 heart attacks every year.

But, our work on this landmark rule is not quite done. Several members of Congress are already plotting legislative maneuvers that would delay or dismantle this rule. ...

One such extreme attack being pushed by Senator James "Global Warming is a Hoax" Inhofe (R-OK) uses an obscure tactic, called the "Congressional Review Act."

If successful, this would not only block the Mercury and Air Toxics rule, but would prevent any substantially similar rule from being issued in the future.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2...vote-on-killing-epas-power-plant-mercury-rule

 

[Herm]

The EPA needs to be purged of liberal envirowackos and brought back to its conservative Nixonian and Teddy roots, we owe the resulting increased efficiency to the planet.

 

[AndyH]

Mods - can we put this in the Halon system?

 

[evnow]

He claims to not be exaggerating, but neither is he offering any specifics. Who are "Republicans"? Do they have names, or is this some amorphous organism?

If there is one area where Republicans are proud to actually do something harmful to humans and openly that is around gutting environmental regulation. Apparently conservatives don't stand for conservation - because, well, they are so enamoured by "free market" that it can do no wrong. Reminds me of how ideology killed communists ...

There have been so many Republicans who have suggested killing EPA that it is now ingrained in the soul of the party - so much so that EPA was one of the suggestions to Perry for his 3rd department to abolish. Yes, the department that the great liberal, Nixon, established.

It is funny how once Republican pillars like Goldwater, Nixon & Reagan would not recognize today's Republican party. They would be called RINOs today.

 

[BRBarian]

What's really shocking about this whole sad effort is that the cost to clean up the mercury is really quite small... not by any stretch a jobs killer (just the opposite, in fact).

It's like they want to promote more pollution just for spite... Just so they can tweak at the EPA.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

There have been so many Republicans who have suggested killing EPA that it is now ingrained in the soul of the party - so much so that EPA was one of the suggestions to Perry for his 3rd department to abolish. Yes, the department that the great liberal, Nixon, established.

People say all sorts of crazy things to get elected, then once in office they are faced with realities. Appealing to the simpletons with talk of government conspiracies to control every aspect of your life, all of which apparently revolve around an incandescent light bulb, are just par for the course. Were Rick Perry actually elected (gak!), his first official act to abolish the DOE would no doubt be met with the harsh reality that most of what he was blathering on about is a tiny percentage of what that agency actually does. He would be asked, for example, if he'd like to take personal responsibility for nuclear waste disposal. Maybe he could just bury it in Sarah Palin's back yard. At any rate, that's likely the last you would ever hear about it.

This phenomenon is certainly not limited to the right. Look at Obama and Gitmo, once he was presented with the facts and knew he had to shoulder the responsibility the issue faded away.

I wouldn't worry too much about the EPA, they aren't going anywhere no matter who gets elected.

 

[Fabio]

This phenomenon is certainly not limited to the right. Look at Obama and Gitmo, once he was presented with the facts and knew he had to shoulder the responsibility the issue faded away.

I wouldn't worry too much about the EPA, they aren't going anywhere no matter who gets elected.

Really ?!?

1. President Obama signed an executive order on the day he took office in 2009 to close Guantanamo Bay
2. As of December 2011, Congress has voted 4 times to block the closure of Guantanamo Bay.

Unlike the Mythical President (i.e. the one Gingrich describes), the actual President has limited powers. Obama can't make Gitmo just disappear w/out the congress approving the money to do so.

 

[AndyH]

This phenomenon is certainly not limited to the right. Look at Obama and Gitmo, once he was presented with the facts and knew he had to shoulder the responsibility the issue faded away.

I wouldn't worry too much about the EPA, they aren't going anywhere no matter who gets elected.

Really ?!?

1. President Obama signed an executive order on the day he took office in 2009 to close Guantanamo Bay
2. As of December 2011, Congress has voted 4 times to block the closure of Guantanamo Bay.

Unlike the Mythical President (i.e. the one Gingrich describes), the actual President has limited powers. Obama can't make Gitmo just disappear w/out the congress approving the money to do so.

Exactly! The House controls the cash - and the folks that control the House have only one focus - make President Obama a (say it with me!) "One Term President!" (gah!)

So while I agree that the EPA will be around, they cannot do their jobs (or parts of their jobs) without a budget.

How far we've come from the days of the founders. Madison is credited with: "If men were angels, we wouldn't need government or checks and balances, but we're not angels." So back in the day, we chose to elect officials to keep all us civilians in check. But today, who's keeping the politicians in check?!

 

[Yodrak]

I don't see anything flawed about either.

Not sure which is worse, the flawed science or the bad journalism.

I didn't see any direct or implied indication that it is.

I didn't realize that my Leaf is powered by electricity from China.

Agreed.

This sounds like a problem with China's reliance on coal power, and their coal power technology, rather than anything having to do with electric cars...

Yes! Finally, we get to a valid criticism of the study!

Would it be a fair question to ask why UT and the National Science Foundation are spending US taxpayer and tuition dollars to study the effects of electric cars in China?

 

[Yodrak]

We learned from our own mistakes several decades ago.

It's the Chinese who have failed to learn from out mistakes - with regard to how environmental impact is an overall detriment to a country. Rather, the Chinese have chosen the quick route to growth apparent success while ignoringthe 'collateral damage' that comes back to haunt when the accumulated damage can no longer be ignored and needs to be cleaned up.

Because we can learn from their mistakes.

Would it be a fair question to ask why UT and the National Science Foundation are spending US taxpayer and tuition dollars to study the effects of electric cars in China?

 

[Yodrak]

"Clean coal" has not, until recently, had anything to do with CO2 emissions. Until the relatively recent concern with global warning it has meant strictly the removal or clean-up of non-coal contaminants that are naturally occuring in coal beds. If now coal is "dirty" because of the CO2 emissions then any fossil fuel that is used to generate electricity is also "dirty". Not as much dirty, but still dirty because all fossil fuels contain carbon and produce CO2 when burned.

Also when you say "dirty coal", is that in contrast to "clean coal" in which there is carbon sequestration? If so, the distinction should be made between "clean coal", "dirty coal", and "really dirty coal", with the latter being without scrubbers that clean the flue gasses.

I am under the same impression.

I am under the impression scrubbers are common if not nearly universal in the US, but not so much in China.