Are Nissan Dealerships REALLY On-Board with EV Charging?

[LeftieBiker]

How is 'to generate foot traffic' different from 'to sell cars'...?

 

[cgaydos]

After reading these, I realize we're pretty lucky where I'm at. Not only does Tynan's Nissan have chargers at their dealership, they also paid to put a L3 and two L2 stations at our local mall. Those chargers are rarely busy, so I've been "filling-up" for "free" pretty regularly. The dealer stations are often ICE'd with new vehicles at both of their locations, Fort Collins and Aurora, but they always rush to move them when I show up with the Leaf.

They even bring me out a bottle of water and stick around to chat about the car. I did go to the Aurora store one morning to find the L3 out of service, but by noon the service dept let me know it was fixed so I went right back over.

I have heard that the other dealerships in my area are not as friendly to the Leaf but I haven't been to any of those yet.

I have to agree. The past 6 weeks I've been essentially commuting to Aurora Children's Hospital from our home in Monument and have been able to do the commute with the LEAF because of Tynan's. I also used Arapahoe Nissan, who gladly moved ICE cars that blocked the way when asked, but Arapahoe has been down for more than a month (and this is the second time this year for that QC). Tynan's had an outage and fixed it within a day (probably the same outage you mentioned).

They've gotten so that they recognize me and I've paid them back by buying replacement tires from them (it helped that they had a "4th tire for $1" sale in July). I've also told them that come lease renewal time they are first on my list.

I just wish they had the QC available during closing hours, like Arapahoe. Colorado's Sunday-dealer-closure law really gets in the way in that regard.

 

[timhebb]

I wish people would stop relying on dealers to charge other then when they need service, this should not be their role any more then having gas pumps. I don't blame dealers for wanting to avoid this for many reasons, If you buy a LEAF you should be able to meet your charging needs at home first and foremost. Relying on other sources that are not reserved for you is an issue.

I beg to differ. Dealers with QC charging clearly don't intend them to be used merely by service customers - L2 would serve that purpose.

Also, you might want to consider Leaf drivers who live in condos or apartment buildings where it isn't possible to install home charging units. I have been driving a Leaf since 2011, sometimes living in a single family dwelling where I could install home charging (but declined to), sometimes not. The Leaf has worked fine for me for more than three years using mostly public charging, partly because I always have a backup plan in mind. I would prefer you not presume to tell me how I should or shouldn't manage charging my Leaf, and I will confer the same respect on you. Thanks.

 

[CentralCAOwner]

I wish people would stop relying on dealers to charge other then when they need service, this should not be their role any more then having gas pumps. I don't blame dealers for wanting to avoid this for many reasons, If you buy a LEAF you should be able to meet your charging needs at home first and foremost. Relying on other sources that are not reserved for you is an issue.

I beg to differ. Dealers with QC charging clearly don't intend them to be used merely by service customers - L2 would serve that purpose.

Also, you might want to consider Leaf drivers who live in condos or apartment buildings where it isn't possible to install home charging units. I have been driving a Leaf since 2011, sometimes living in a single family dwelling where I could install home charging (but declined to), sometimes not. The Leaf has worked fine for me for more than three years using mostly public charging, partly because I always have a backup plan in mind. I would prefer you not presume to tell me how I should or shouldn't manage charging my Leaf, and I will confer the same respect on you. Thanks.

A very good point! And another reason for Nissan
Dealerships to keep their charging stations up, running, and easily available.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Some dealers are certainly more enlightened than others. I'll put in a plug for my local dealer (Marlboro Nissan) has they do keep their QC and their L2 chargers unblocked.

Unfortunately, they've starting locking the QC when the dealership is closed. I wish they could keep them open and available for Leaf owners.

If you examine the lock closely, after hours, you'll find it's not actually closed and locked, it just looks very much like it is. Per Jim McCall, it's a decoy to deter vandals. Except its so good a decoy, someone broke the handle once to use it, about a month or so ago. It still works, even though it's still broken, and with the stubby handle that's left, it couldn't possibly be locked anyway. They also haven't learned how to clean the filters yet, it overheats occasionally. I wish they'd lose the decoy, but they tell me they've had vandal trouble before, so it's a compromise. Nice to have a Home Depot across the street too.

Milford, Auburn, and Lancaster are other dependable 24/7 QCs.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Well, as my post was intended to respond to the question from the OP, I am happy to be dealing with a dealer that supports their EV customers.

I think there is a perception that dealers install chargers to sell cars. Personally believe dealers install chargers to generate foot traffic in their dealership. It's the same concept as providing free beverages and wifi in a service lounge, which in many newer designed dealerships is open to the showroom. So it make perfect sense for a dealership to provide complementary EV charging as it provides an opportunity to have face-to-face contact with a potential customer.

My dealer did not promise free charging, or guarantee an amperage rate for charging, or guarantee the station would not be in use. But did tell me I'm currently welcome to use their charging equipment or at their sister Chevy dealership at no cost when in need. Other dealers in the area appear to be just as welcoming. None have L3's, and if you think about it there is a much better chance of face-to-face contact if the customer is loiter around their business waiting on a L2 charge.

When QCs first showed up here last November, only Nissan dealers had them. Non-dealer QCs have just started to be installed. After waiting a year to use my QC port, it was a relief to travel farther and not have to wait for L2 with a 3.3. In the process, I've met many more dealers, observing the various showroom cultures, than I would have normally. That's paid off for me as it helped me choose a dealer to lease my second LEAF from. The dealers without QC, I had no need to visit, as I'd much rather use a L2 near something more interesting.

 

[rogersleaf]

Also, you might want to consider Leaf drivers who live in condos or apartment buildings where it isn't possible to install home charging units. I have been driving a Leaf since 2011, sometimes living in a single family dwelling where I could install home charging (but declined to), sometimes not. The Leaf has worked fine for me for more than three years using mostly public charging, partly because I always have a backup plan in mind. I would prefer you not presume to tell me how I should or shouldn't manage charging my Leaf, and I will confer the same respect on you. Thanks.

I had that same conversation with co-workers last week. Explained the various charging methods, private and public charging options in the area (note that pubic choices are very limited in this area). They basically looked perplexed and had a difficult time just understanding the concept of not buying gasoline. Some of them also live in condos/apartments where private L2 or L1 charging would not be an option. The ability to own one of these all comes down to the capability to charge at a fast enough rate at times when the car is not needed. I can easily see a change in jobs, or a change in work locations, or a change in living arrangements making this car unworkable.

 

[AlanSqB]

I have to agree. The past 6 weeks I've been essentially commuting to Aurora Children's Hospital from our home in Monument and have been able to do the commute with the LEAF because of Tynan's.

I hope all is well. Anschutz really does need some public L2. Somewhere between the two hospitals would be perfect. We have some excellent L2 spots in the UCH employee garage, but it is defiantly a restricted area. However, it shows somebody there is aware of EV's. I will send in a suggestion to ask them to look some public spots.

 

[cgaydos]

I have to agree. The past 6 weeks I've been essentially commuting to Aurora Children's Hospital from our home in Monument and have been able to do the commute with the LEAF because of Tynan's.

I hope all is well. Anschutz really does need some public L2. Somewhere between the two hospitals would be perfect. We have some excellent L2 spots in the UCH employee garage, but it is defiantly a restricted area. However, it shows somebody there is aware of EV's. I will send in a suggestion to ask them to look some public spots.

Thanks! The thought occurred to me but I didn't know where to submit the suggestion.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I wish people would stop relying on dealers to charge other then when they need service, this should not be their role any more then having gas pumps. I don't blame dealers for wanting to avoid this for many reasons, If you buy a LEAF you should be able to meet your charging needs at home first and foremost. Relying on other sources that are not reserved for you is an issue.

I beg to differ. Dealers with QC charging clearly don't intend them to be used merely by service customers - L2 would serve that purpose.

Also, you might want to consider Leaf drivers who live in condos or apartment buildings where it isn't possible to install home charging units. I have been driving a Leaf since 2011, sometimes living in a single family dwelling where I could install home charging (but declined to), sometimes not. The Leaf has worked fine for me for more than three years using mostly public charging, partly because I always have a backup plan in mind. I would prefer you not presume to tell me how I should or shouldn't manage charging my Leaf, and I will confer the same respect on you. Thanks.

Actually they do, they often need to charge cars quickly and some dealers do high volume, I know of two and they are fed up with the mooches that come to charge daily. People that live in a condo and do not have access to charging has nothing to do with a dealership, they should consider those limitations before buying and in not way should a dealer be the solution. There is a big difference is highly populated areas with high numbers of LEAFs and there are drones of LEAF drivers that just show up daily as is it is their right to charge or they are too cheap to charge at home. I see them all the time and I have heard these comments directly from them.

 

[jlv]

Some dealers are certainly more enlightened than others. I'll put in a plug for my local dealer (Marlboro Nissan) has they do keep their QC and their L2 chargers unblocked.

Unfortunately, they've starting locking the QC when the dealership is closed. I wish they could keep them open and available for Leaf owners.

If you examine the lock closely, after hours, you'll find it's not actually closed and locked, it just looks very much like it is. Per Jim McCall, it's a decoy to deter vandals. Except its so good a decoy, someone broke the handle once to use it, about a month or so ago. It still works, even though it's still broken, and with the stubby handle that's left, it couldn't possibly be locked anyway. They also haven't learned how to clean the filters yet, it overheats occasionally. I wish they'd lose the decoy, but they tell me they've had vandal trouble before, so it's a compromise. Nice to have a Home Depot across the street too.

Milford, Auburn, and Lancaster are other dependable 24/7 QCs.

He told me the same thing when I leased the car from him, and it used to be so. They fixed the broken handle about 4-5 weeks ago, and since then it was locked both times I stopped off hours. Both times were over 3 weeks ago, as since then my Leaf has been on their lot waiting for parts for a warranty repair. When I pick my Leaf on Monday, I'll ask what the deal is.

Kelly Nissan of Woborn (intersection of I95 and I93) also has a 24/7 QC (at least it was unlocked on a Sunday night at 9PM back in May).

 

[DaveEV]

Actually they do, they often need to charge cars quickly and some dealers do high volume, I know of two and they are fed up with the mooches that come to charge daily. People that live in a condo and do not have access to charging has nothing to do with a dealership, they should consider those limitations before buying and in not way should a dealer be the solution. There is a big difference is highly populated areas with high numbers of LEAFs and there are drones of LEAF drivers that just show up daily as is it is their right to charge or they are too cheap to charge at home. I see them all the time and I have heard these comments directly from them.

We aren't talking about free charging here. Moocher are a problem - I doubt you'll find anyone say otherwise which is why nearly everyone agrees that ideally public charging should be more expensive than charging at home.

The problem is charging stations which are broken and stay broken for extended periods of time. Many of these are QCs which were just installed in the last 6-12 months - and not necessarily free. Most of the issues appear to be simple lack of maintenance (gotta keep that intake filter clean!) - others seem to be more significant reliability issues with the stations.

Example:
http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/1411" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/14933" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interestly, these are both Chargepoint networked stations so I assume that the dealer is responsible for maintenance. I suspect that the ones that signed up with eVgo are staying up because eVgo actually appears to maintain charging stations. Or maybe because eVgo QC rates are so high that they simply rarely get used.

Charging on a Nissan QC today I noticed that the cooling fans seem to run full speed even when not used and didn't appear to vary speed depending on load on the station. It seems that if the fans would spin down when additional cooling isn't needed the inlet filter (inexplicably located right on the ground where tons of dirt can be picked up) it would increase time before the filter clogs up. I also wonder if a vacuum could be used to clean the dust off the filter without removing it.

 

[cwerdna]

Charging on a Nissan QC today I noticed that the cooling fans seem to run full speed even when not used and didn't appear to vary speed depending on load on the station. It seems that if the fans would spin down when additional cooling isn't needed the inlet filter (inexplicably located right on the ground where tons of dirt can be picked up) it would increase time before the filter clogs up.

Yes, I had the same observation about Nissan QC's as well.

I do wonder if the fan speeds are fixed or whether they can be controlled via software.

I haven't participated in this thread but two Nissan QC's (at Walgreens) I've used have apparently gone from fee to being on the Blink network and thus have their crappy fees. I guess I won't be using those anymore. Many dealers the Bay Area have transitioned to charging $ for DC FCing now.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Some dealers are certainly more enlightened than others. I'll put in a plug for my local dealer (Marlboro Nissan) has they do keep their QC and their L2 chargers unblocked.

Unfortunately, they've starting locking the QC when the dealership is closed. I wish they could keep them open and available for Leaf owners.

If you examine the lock closely, after hours, you'll find it's not actually closed and locked, it just looks very much like it is. Per Jim McCall, it's a decoy to deter vandals. Except its so good a decoy, someone broke the handle once to use it, about a month or so ago. It still works, even though it's still broken, and with the stubby handle that's left, it couldn't possibly be locked anyway. They also haven't learned how to clean the filters yet, it overheats occasionally. I wish they'd lose the decoy, but they tell me they've had vandal trouble before, so it's a compromise. Nice to have a Home Depot across the street too.

Milford, Auburn, and Lancaster are other dependable 24/7 QCs.

He told me the same thing when I leased the car from him, and it used to be so. They fixed the broken handle about 4-5 weeks ago, and since then it was locked both times I stopped off hours. Both times were over 3 weeks ago, as since then my Leaf has been on their lot waiting for parts for a warranty repair. When I pick my Leaf on Monday, I'll ask what the deal is.

Kelly Nissan of Woborn (intersection of I95 and I93) also has a 24/7 QC (at least it was unlocked on a Sunday night at 9PM back in May).

The heater core leak thread is you? I'll have to read through it now.

I was there last Saturday, 8/2, and the handle is broken again. Maybe someone is trying to send them a message. They can't lock the broken handle, but it still works. At least the don't lock out the main breaker switch like Qlick in Westboro. I'm in the midst of lease negotiations now. I leased from Jim two years ago, but they're not making the best offer now. I'll post a full report in the lease thread when it's all over.

Quirk Nissan in Quincy also has a dependable QC 24/7, and there's a new one closer to Logan at Comfort Inn, Revere that looks promising. MA is supposedly working on siting 15 QCs from Nissan along highways, but it's taking forever. I call it "The Big Plug"

 

[AlanSqB]

If they don't like "mooches" they have the right and ability to lock and restrict those stations. They should do so in those cases. Also, if they need the QC's for their "high volumes" then how can they afford to leave them broken for so long. If they are "broken" so that the dealer can discourage use, that dealer just needs to stand up and say that. However that would conflict with the fact that most of them use the promise of QC to sell units which is why they are prominently displayed in many dealers instead of hidden in the back of the lot.

I'm not arguing that dealer charging every day is the way to go, that just wouldn't work. There is no way dealers can be expected to build that type of capacity on their lots. I'm saying that where I am, the dealers have provided and offered free QC and L2 in multiple locations and prominently promote and display that fact in order to build confidence for Leaf buyers who want to extend their trips. If they didn't want them used, they would be hidden in the back of the lot, or under lock and key. I also have no problem paying when that inevitable time occurs, however the providers of these stations have not yet chosen to charge.

I used the off-lot, dealer provided QC at the mall again yesterday. It's there and is rarely used. I'm actually afraid if it doesn't get more use, they may decide not to move it back after the mall is renovated. It sounds like QC availability is not quite the same where you are, but don't judge my use by your situation. It truly sounds like a completely different story where you are, but I posted in this thread to share my experience with my dealer in my home area.

Every QC I've used here in CO has been an ABB unit. They seem to have variable speed fans and are silent when not being used. They seem to be very reliable, but they also don't seem to get constant use.

 

[cgaydos]

I haven't participated in this thread but two Nissan QC's (at Walgreens) I've used have apparently gone from fee to being on the Blink network and thus have their crappy fees. I guess I won't be using those anymore. Many dealers the Bay Area have transitioned to charging $ for DC FCing now.

We don't have any QCs at Walgreens in Colorado - wish we did - but on the topic of fees I've revised my thinking. I save a ton of money charging at 10.5 cents/kWh at home (no TOU charging - our rural electrical co-op people are anti-clean energy neanderthals). If I need a charge on the road paying $.49/kWh at Walgreens for L2 is fine - I'm thrilled that they have so many in Colorado, and the high fees mean that they are usually available - no more Volts parked all day plugged in just because. And if it's L3 I'm willing to pay even more for the convenience. There is a garage in Denver that usually charges $1/hour with a free QC, but occasionally they convert to a flat $5 event fee. I've found that sometimes I'll happily pay the $5 just for the convenience of getting a full charge from 2 or 3 bars in just 45 minutes.

 

[Knarlyd]

Does anyone know if Arlington WA got a DC QC yet? Still would like to attempt trip from portland or to spokane wa!

 

[cwerdna]

Every QC I've used here in CO has been an ABB unit. They seem to have variable speed fans and are silent when not being used. They seem to be very reliable, but they also don't seem to get constant use.

I looked at http://www.nissanqc.com/pdf/techspecs.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; from http://www.nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the first time and noticed in the specs it mentions "Installed at < 3,280 ft ". Aha! Fort Collins' elevation is apparently ~5000 feet. That's probably a good reason why the ones you've used aren't http://www.nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Re: the http://www.nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; hitting temp errors, please see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=383952#p383952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the filter cleaning guide. If they aren't cleaned periodically, they WILL overheat.

 

[kikngas]

I live in SE MN where there are very few L2 charging stations and only Tesla for QC. I see the lack of charging infrastructure as being key to EV adoption and wanted to do my part to try and help things along. Many of the chargers around are at local Nissan dealerships and so I am glad they are there (hopefully working).

My local dealer told me I would be able to charge there anytime I want. As I looked more in to what trip planning is like around my home, I noticed their dealership was listed on plugshare, but their charging stations have a little sticker on them that says for their local customers only. This little detail was not readily pointed out on the plugshare site, and reading the comments, this led to someone getting steamed. They were told they could charge, and then by someone else that the chargepoint was for customers only.

So, when I went in to sign papers to order my new 2015 LEAF, I mentioned the Nissan corporate initiatives and emphasis on plug-in infrastructure and dealer participation, I walked them to the website and pointed out that many people use this site to plan their trips and charge, and pointed them to the negative comments about their dealership, I said "I've checked around and believe you've offered a fair price, so rather then trying to beat you up on price... (they're listening very closely at this point!) ...what would it take to get you to take down the sign that says customers only, and replace it with one that says 'courtesy of...'? They insisted that they already do let anyone charge there, we do it all the time... I said right, so why not make that clear to everyone? Avoid the potential problem with different employees interpreting it differently, and simplify it for people trying to plan their trips on plugshare." And I left with my name on the next LEAF delivery, and with a little annoying sticker removed from their charge stations.

This led to the discussion that the charge station might be overrun with moochers. I went on to suggest that they put out an offer that for every 10 EVs they sell, that they work with others to put in a charge station. Suggesting that they could put up a third of the installation costs, with other thirds being backed by employers, retail stores, mall operators, landlords, business alliance members, chambers of commerce, etc. etc.

If they make it known that they are willing to do so, then it would make it much easier for me to get my employer to offer to chip in a third, if the landlord of the office building will chip in a third, and then I could charge while at work. I could go to my local movie theater or coffee shop and suggest they put in a charge station as well, you put up a third, a third comes from the Nissan dealer, and a third from the mall operator. And I said others will see these charge stations and if they are occupied, they are occupied with nice new shiny LEAFs, and people will see EVs in use in their everyday lives, and if they are vacant, then people pass them each day and wonder "hey, could I buy an EV and charge there?". And isn't that the questions you want them to be asking? At each charge station would have a little sign, "brought to you in part by...(the local dealership).

To the credit of my local dealer, they said they had already inquired with large local businesses about putting in charge stations in their employee parking lots and fronting ALL of the cost, and they were refused. I suggested they try again and give it some time. At this point, there really aren't any EVs in my area. Those that exist are charging at home. This is my plan as well, but if public charging is available where it is convenient for me to use, I will plan to use it (and pay) periodically just to confirm there is public interest in having more of them (especially QC!). I guess that makes it "voting with your tires".

 

[DaveEV]

I live in SE MN where there are very few L2 charging stations and only Tesla for QC. I see the lack of charging infrastructure as being key to EV adoption and wanted to do my part to try and help things along. Many of the chargers around are at local Nissan dealerships and so I am glad they are there (hopefully working).

Great story and great work working with your local dealer.

If your dealer is worried about free-loaders, an easy solution is to install pay charging stations instead of free charging stations. Even a nominal rate will keep the free loaders from using them unless they need to. And the employees can keep a card on-hand which activates free charging as appropriate.

If there are sufficient amenities at/near the dealer, installing enough L2 stations to handle public charging and perhaps adding a bit of signage advertising the dealer's services (targeting the plug-in owner) could attract business. The biggest issue with dealer charging is that they are not always in a good location for a 1+ hour stop for L2 charging and the dealer lot often does not have free parking spots to dedicate to EV charging.