A real-life cost of Leaf driving calculation in Bay Area

[OrientExpress]

I just read this entire thread, and my initial question was if you had made the move to E-A (not B) pricing. You will save at least 5¢ a KW/hr doing that. I see that you are doing that, so good, that is the way to go.

Go for the E9-A because it gives all of your electric usage the preferred pricing. We are saving a whole lot on our transportation costs, I can't believe how inexpensive it is to drive this car. Plus, mine (knock on wood) has not had one single thing go wrong with it in the 9000 miles we have driven in it. That is a new first for a car for us, one that just works, and works very competently in its designed environment and works extremely economically.

 

[nosuchthing]

Our off peak rate dropped from 12c /kWh to 4c /kWh!

How many kW at the 4 cent price? That's where they get you. If I remember correctly it was a come-on number with very low baseline use after which it goes to a much higher tier. I knew I'd be using at least 20 kW per day. So a baseline of 50 kW per month at that price would be gone in 2-3 days. And then what? Your 4 cent advantage is gone and for the rest of the month you are stuck in much higher tiers then ever before.

We are dealing with cutthroat technocrats who use supercomputers to bill us to death. Look how complex the tier system is on your bill. Baselines, tiers, credits, fees, taxes. It's ridiculous.

 

[planet4ever]

I knew I'd be using at least 20 kW per day. So a baseline of 50 kW per month at that price would be gone in 2-3 days.

Obviously you meant to say kWh, not kW. If you used an average of 20 kW, that would be 240 kWh/day!

I expect that, being in Los Gatos, Burnszilla is in the same baseline territory X that I am. If so, and he uses gas heat, he has an 11.7 kWh/day baseline this winter, which is a lot more than 50 kWh/month. However, you are right that he would run out of cheap electricity before the month ran out. In the first place, the tier 1 off-peak rate is really 4.68¢ from now until May, and if he is using 20 kWh/day that will last about 18 days. Then the rate will inch up to 6.5¢ for the next 5 or so days, after which it will jump to 15.8¢. But that doesn't account for the power his home is using. From 7 AM to midnight on weekdays is "partial peak" time, and all power used during that time will cost 9.9¢ for the first 18 days, 11.7¢ for the next 5 days, and - hang on to your hat - 29.7¢/kWh for the rest of the month. The same thing applies between 5PM and 9PM on weekends.

And if you think that is bad, wait until May through October, when his baseline drops to 11.0 kWh/day and he is going to be paying up to 50¢/kWh, or maybe even 54¢/kWh if his usage goes up, for electricity used between 2PM and 9PM on weekdays. Better not count on using that air conditioner next summer.

Ray

p.s. Note that my references to 18 days and 5 days are only approximations based on using 20 kWh/day, November through April. What really counts is the number of days in the billing period (which will vary) and the baseline amount per day. The jumps always come at 100% and 130% of baseline x billing days.

p.p.s This whole description is misleading in that it doesn't matter when, during the month, you use the electricity. For each billing period your usage will be split into peak, partial peak, and off-peak, then a fraction of your usage will be billed at each tier rate, no matter which day you used it.

 

[tailgate1234]

I just got my electric bill so I whipped out the calculator just to see if we're saving any money on Leaf driving, and particularly how much.

Turns out we used 20 kW extra power per day (Leaf). Translates to about 72 miles of driving Leaf. I get 3.6 average and cannot get any higher -- it's all freeway at 65 and higher.

My avarage cost per kW comes to 21.3 cents winter juice as compared to 26.8 cents summer juice. PG&E charges more in summer than in winter in case you haven't noticed on your bill. They get you good particularly on top tier on-peak rate of 50 cents per kW.

So, 21.3 c/kW x 20 kW comes to $4.26 driving 72 miles. If it was an ICE with 28 mpg the cost would be (at $3.60 gas) $9.26. Five bucks savings per day amounts to $150 a month plus about 5 bucks per month for oil changes (every 3 months - I do it myself and always get $2 oil on sale). Not too shabby even with PG&E predatory pricing and no real breaks for us Leaf owners.

As far as the summer juice, it is 26.8 c/kW x 20 kW which comes to $5.36 that translates to savings of $3.90 per day or $117 per month. Not as flashy but money nevertheless. Plus 43 lb of Carbon savings as well, calculation based on 60 lb net value per 100 miles driven (90 lb ICE vs. 30 lb Leaf juice generation).

My next step in a year or two is 8-10 kw solar shingles (DOW Powerhouse) and second electric with a bigger range. That means free, clean driving, and anytime washer dryer, i.e. no more TOU (time of use).

Predatory pricing is when a company uses artificially LOW prices to drive out competition. PG&E is ridiculously expensive compared to other utilities in the country, some of which are as low as 0.06/kwh. Beside their corporate bufoonry, a large chunk of the high power rates is to pay for their bankruptcy of a few years ago.

 

[padamson1]

Our power provider has only one residential rate, no specality charges and is soley based on hydroelectric power generation.

Our cost for electricity is $.0208/KWH.

Are you serious? It's just barely over 2 cents per kwh??? Do you have a link to your utility's electric rates?

That sounds almost too good to be true.

I live in the Pacific NW too and my rate isn't even close to that low. Portland General Electric (PGE not PG&E) charges $0.065 for power, but it also tacks on transmission fees, service fees, taxes, and in my case surcharges for green energy on top of that. I think BLUEH20 forgot to include those other fees. When I divide my total bill by the kWh used, it comes out to around $0.128/kWh, it goes down to $0.116/kWh if I subtract out the green energy surcharge. I have a solar system but I don't do TOU billing b/c we can't shift enough of our energy use out of the middle peak rate for it to pay off.

Our LEAF cost us $38 for fuel compared to a little over $85 monthly cost for our Prius (which it replaced). If we drove our Hybrid Highlander the same distance it would be $170 (its in the garage as backup, for bad weather, and camping trips). Considering a Prius is one of the cheapest cars to drive, I'm happy with the comparison.

 

[BLUEH20]

Copied from the Douglas County Public Utility District #1 web page:

Douglas PUD still offers some of the lowest retail electric prices in the United States. Your PUD remains committed to providing you safe and reliable utility services at the lowest possible cost consistent with sound business principles. A copy of the rates currently in effect is provided for your use. If you have any questions or comments please let us know.

2011 Rates From District Resources including Hydroelectric, Wind and Solar Power:

Schedule 1, General Service
Daily Charge $0.296
KWH Charge $0.0208
Demand Charge (Monthly) $1.20/KW greater than 50 KW
Minimum Charge $7.80/mo. Plus $3.40/KW>30

Schedule 2, Irrigation Service
Demand Charge (Seasonally) $16.10/KW
Demand Charge (Monthly) $2.00/KW
Energy Charge $0.0111/KWH
Minimum Seasonal Charge $49.40
Minimum Monthly Charge $2.00/KW connected load

Schedule 3, Street Lighting And Area Lighting Service (Daily Rate)
150/200 watt high pressure sodium $0.304
400 watt high pressure sodium $0.527

Schedule 4, Energy Delivery Service (For alternate energy supplier)
Daily Charge $0.296
Energy Delivery Charge $0.0152/KWH
Ancillary Services $0.0008/KWH

Schedule 5, Alternate Renewable Resource Service (To encourage new renewable resources, available to general service customers) Charge
$6.72 per 100 kWh increment

Schedule 6, Douglas County Community Network Prices (DCCN)
Dark Fiber - No Service Level Agreement $34.00
Dark Fiber - With Service Level Agreement $38.00
100 Mbps Virtual Local Area Network $108.00

 

[Splittinglanes]

I signed up for the E-9A rate schedule last month, and I'll be monitoring my energy usage to see if solar will pay off for me.

My energy usage before the Leaf was averaging around 16kwh a day, since adding the Leaf my usage has doubled. Watching my smart meters hourly usage chart, I see 4kwh of usage from midnight to 5am, and then under half a kwh during the rest of the 24 hr period except in the mornings and evenings (cooking and tv).

PG&E told me they were going to modify the e-9 schedule to look more like business rates, with no tiered pricing. Tiered prices don't work so well when you car and house are on the same meter, as the baseline is calculated assuming only a house. I too, am not interested in hanging a second meter on the side of the house just to obtain a second baseline. Plus, they charge you all the base fees for the meter.... I'm hoping to use most of my power at night when it's cheap, and generate during the day and get paid the higher rate if I go with solar. I think I'll wait to see the new un-tiered rates before making a decision.

 

[planet4ever]

My energy usage before the Leaf was averaging around 16kwh a day, since adding the Leaf my usage has doubled. Watching my smart meters hourly usage chart, I see 4kwh of usage from midnight to 5am, and then under half a kwh during the rest of the 24 hr period except in the mornings and evenings (cooking and tv).

That's an awfully confusing way to state things; in fact I was sure at first that you were mixing up kW and kWh. Then I realized you were saying "4 kilowatt hours per hour from midnight to 5am" (because you said "hourly usage chart"). In physics class, many years ago, a teacher told us to forget the numbers at first and just do the math on the units. That's probably the most useful technique I learned there. In this case, (kilowatts) x (hours) / (hours) = (kilowatts). Your rate of usage is 4 kW from midnight to 5 AM; The amount used during that period is 20 kWh. Both these numbers do make sense, because the battery can hold up to about 21 kWh (and there are charging losses), while the charger in the car can accept electricity at a rate of about 3.8 kW.

(Sorry, I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence with this little tutorial. It's just that I know some readers here get confused by electrical terms.)

Ray

 

[waitingforaleaf]

PG&E told me they were going to modify the e-9 schedule to look more like business rates, with no tiered pricing. Tiered prices don't work so well when you car and house are on the same meter, as the baseline is calculated assuming only a house.

This proposal (Advice Letter 3910-E) is currently under review by the CPUC. Based upon PG&E's own calculations, their proposed change would raise the electricity bill of 3 out of 4 current E-9 users, while leaving only the top quartile to pay less. Not exactly pro-EV or pro-conservationist if you ask me. Based upon my bills, the proposed change to non-tiered E-9 will make it significantly more expensive than E-1.

 

[Splittinglanes]

PG&E told me they were going to modify the e-9 schedule to look more like business rates, with no tiered pricing. Tiered prices don't work so well when you car and house are on the same meter, as the baseline is calculated assuming only a house.

This proposal (Advice Letter 3910-E) is currently under review by the CPUC. Based upon PG&E's own calculations, their proposed change would raise the electricity bill of 3 out of 4 current E-9 users, while leaving only the top quartile to pay less. Not exactly pro-EV or pro-conservationist if you ask me. Based upon my bills, the proposed change to non-tiered E-9 will make it significantly more expensive than E-1.

Thanks for posting. I was able to read the advice letter, and as I read it, it doesn't appear bad to me, as I'm well into tier 3 with my Leaf and home on the same meter. The no-tier pricing is less than than tier 3, 4, &5, so in a sense it protects you from a *really* bad bill when you drive a lot one month. My home has a control system in it, so usage is pretty constant, but not so with an EV.

Edit ****: I received my first bill under E-9A rates, and my average cost for a kwh is $ 0.13. I agree that changing to the new rate structure ( not tiered ) will be detrimental to my energy bill.

Either way, TOU rates really work well when you have some solar generating at the peak rate, and then charge your car off peak...