2011 LEAF SV w/ 76% SOH Battery

[tantousha]

Hey guys,

A local car dealer (Motorize) here in Victoria, BC has a 2011 LEAF SV on their lot for $14K CDN (that's cheap, most used LEAFs are $18K-$22K here in Victoria/Vancouver. I want a LEAF so bad (I curse every time I have to gas up my current car), but just can't afford anything above that price at the moment.

I emailed the guy and asked for the GIDs and SOH of the battery (They specialize in importing US LEAFs to Canada and apparently know their stuff. Here is the response I got from the guy (If Cameron is on the boards here, Hi!):

"The battery still has plenty of life at it currently sits at 76% SOH, with a resistance level (Hx) at 60%

GIDs unfortunately score differently depending on what the current state of charge, state of health and HX levels are in combination. If i take a reading when the car is 50% charged vs 100% charged it will skew the number and therefor be misleading when I’m comparing other batteries.

The SOH vs HX is a great representation of what the battery health looks and the performance of that health."

He then goes on to explain the reason the battery is so low is because it was mostly charged using the L1 charger that came with the car.

So what do you all think? My concern is that 76% is JUST high enough to miss out on the battery warranty (I thought it was 70%/60 months, though I'm reading online that it's actually 96 months?).

Thanks for all your help guys, I greatly appreciate all your combined experience.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Personally, I would stay away from a 2011 with 76% capacity. With that capacity it is likely a 10 or 9 bar car and even in Canada that capacity will drop quickly from this point forward. I know that $14K Canadian may sound cheap to you, but if you don't own a leaf already, what you'll need to know is that the winters with a low capacity car will be very rough. In the winter you'll be lucky to get 50 miles out of a 2011 with that capacity. Furthermore there's no way you'll get a battery replacement on that car as the warranty will expire by the time it reaches 67% (8 bars). This means that you'll have a more heavily degraded Leaf in a year or two with little usable capacity, and you'll have to either eat the loss on the resale of the car, or fork out $6K for a replacement pack. Given both of these options, if you insist on buying used, I would not buy any older than a 2013 car. The 13 and newer cars tend to hold up much better to capacity loss, you'll get much more life out of the car, and by the time you need a new battery, you'll hopefully be in a situation where the replacement packs will be cheaper, or better yet, Nissan will start selling you a 30kwh pack. Unless you are certain that you'll qualify for a warranty replacement on a 2011/12 car, or if the price is so low that you'll be hard pressed to lose money, and your max commute is no more than 40mi round trip, I would suggest staying away from a 11/12 car.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Oh and to the dealers comments on reading the battery. The only true way to read the pack is to charge to 100% and take a reading with an OBD meter. Everything matters, Gids, AHr, HX, and SOH. Sure the max Gids will vary slightly with the seasons, and go up a little sometimes in the summer but for the most part they are reliable. The Ahr determines how close you are to dropping a bar. Also there's no way to tell whether someone used L1 or L2 unless they tell you. The car only tracks L1/L2 combined as one reading, and QC as a separate one. True 110v charging can lead to quicker degradation in some cases because it raises the overall temp of the pack for a longer period of time, but the dealer seems like he's just trying to make you feel better about the car. You can likely find a 2013 or newer for 1-2K more and you'll have much less degradation and be much happier.

 

[tantousha]

Thanks for the reply!

My hope was to get the guy down to $10K in negotiations because of the degradation of the battery, or maybe negotiate to have the battery replacement included in the deal.

That said I am seeing 2013 LEAF S's for sale for $15-16K so maybe it is best to play the waiting game for now.

PS. We're located on the Pacific coast and our weather is pretty much on par with Seattle. 32F winters and not really any hotter than 85F in the summer.

Thanks!

 

[LeftieBiker]

32F winters and not really any hotter than 85F in the summer.

85F is plenty hot enough to accelerate degradation, especially if it stays above 70F at night.

 

[caffeinekid]

Tkdbrusco pretty much got to the core of the issue, however the capacity warranty in my experience thus far kicks in when SOH hits 64%, not 67%. That could mean several months difference, and at least another year to come down from 76%. For comparison, we have several 2011/2012 MY Leafs here in Houston Texas that are 1 or 2 bar losers. Interestingly, several are from northern regions. Apparently buyers aren't fooled because they sit on the lots for months. I could pick up one today for about USD $8500 including TT&L. That's what...roughly $12K CAD, all fees included? Oh. And they are also SL, not SV (if the HomeLink matters).

 

[Amund]

I would never buy a 2011 SV with 76% SOH:
-The battery is to poor. The drive range will be short, and remaining lifetime might be short.
-The car has no QC port.
-The 2011 was sold without CWP in many states.
I guess you have to pay for a new battery soon, with such car.

The 2012 has heated seats, steering wheels and battery, and the 2012 SL has QC port.
2012 Leaf is sold for about 6000usd at the auctions.

 

[LeftieBiker]

True 110v charging can lead to quicker degradation in some cases because it raises the overall temp of the pack for a longer period of time, but the dealer seems like he's just trying to make you feel better about the car.

First, it's 120 volts, not 110 - unless Canada 's voltage is lower. Second, L-1 charging is rarely likely to raise pack temp too high all by itself. L-2 charging in hot weather is probably "worse." The only charging method worth talking about in relation to pack degradation is QC.