Dealership Charge Station Availability & Pacific Nissan

davewill said:

Jimmydreams said:

Thanks for the comments. I bought my Leaf at Pacific Nissan and have used their chargers twice. Seeing them turn away other Leafers is pathetic. I will call them tomorrow, speak to the manager and kindly inform him that due to that kind of behavior, I will not recommend them as a dealer, I will not charge there again, NOR will I bring my car to them for service.

...

edit: I think I'll just send and email and CC Nissan USA Customer Service. The manager can blow off my phone call, but he might have a harder time if corporate calls him.

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Did you ever do either of these and get any response?

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I am waiting for a call from the general manager. I called this morning, so we'll see if I get a return call or not.

TRONZ said:

I think Pacific Nissan is selecting themselves for extinction in the EV business.

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Matches their ICE business! :lol:

1. I talked to CS about the situation, including making their e-stations available 24/7 and getting a Nissan-Version (less expensive) QC station at each LEAF-Dealer.

2. Has the Nissan QC unit even been submitted for UL Listing?
Does it even NEED UL Listing?

TRONZ said:

I think Pacific Nissan is selecting themselves for extinction in the EV business. So be it! ... sales people/sales manager types are definitely more abrasive. Your in their house and they did not/will not make a sale off of you for a very long time. It kinda pisses them off. While charging at OC Nissan Irvine, the sales manager gave me a terse lecture about why he doesn't discount LEAFs (no money in it according to him). I asked how many he had sold so far and he said "zero"...

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It amazes me as to the lack of vision displayed by some dealers. Don't they realize that while you are charging at their lot you are a living advertisement? You are saying, "Hey EV's are here! They work! We love our customers, and will insure that they don't feel left out in the cold until infrastructure is in place." Generally, charging at a dealer is not people's first choice, who wants to hang out at a car lot? I can't see this being abused by the mainstream customer.
Obviously they would rather have their sales boosted by having Leafs go dead by the roadside; that should bring customers in swarms.
They don't realize how many folks are talking to the new Leaf owners apparently. People are really curious! Word of mouth will kill their business. When I am asked, I'll recommend a dealer that has shown me service and courtesy.

garygid said:

Has the Nissan QC unit even been submitted for UL Listing?
Does it even NEED UL Listing?

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In my experience, Yes, they should seek UL listing. Non listed equipment is not widely accepted as being safe for public use, but can be OK'd by the local authority having jurisdiction (read: the electrical inspector) which in many cases is entirely subjective. Most will fail it on liability issues alone.

TRONZ said:

While charging at OC Nissan Irvine, the sales manager gave me a terse lecture about why he doesn't discount LEAFs (no money in it according to him).

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When they were POWER Nissan they were the only dealer in a 25 mile radius that didn't charge $10K over sticker for my first year model 350z Roadster, so I went with them.

Fast-forward 5 years later with a name change and I went to them first to sell the Z. The sales manager couldn't even be bothered to look me in the eye, and said "we don't buy used vehicles". I said, "you don't accept trade-ins either?", and finally looked at me and replied, "are you looking to buy?".

It's the lack of respect and common courtesy that I have written that dealership off, even though they're 5 minutes from my work.

Bad customer service, pure and simple. Word of mouth goes a long way. When I was shopping around before RAQing, I contacted a local NorCal dealer who said if I went with them, the deal would include free/unlimited charging, which was one reason they were not offering the same discount I could get elsewhere. I didn't go with them. Now that LEAFs have started to arrive, I wonder if that dealership is limiting charging to only their customers...

Jimmydreams said:

I am waiting for a call from the general manager. I called this morning, so we'll see if I get a return call or not.

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Will be interesting to hear what they say.

Amazingly (to me) when we were there picking up our car FROM them, you know, becoming part of the PN family, I (non-chalantly, I thought) asked about the chargers out front...something like "so, if we're in the area for whatever reason, we can charge here, yeah?" and that seemed to cause some serious consternation on the part of our otherwise worthy sales guy. Which startled me, but I didn't press too hard. I think I muttered something about it being understood that Nissan wanted dealer chargers to be part of the overall infrastructure, but he was clearly going to have to ask management about it. Huhwhat?

So what are the chargers there for then? Apparently not for Nissan owners in general and maybe not even their own customers (assuming they have others in the service bay, which they must). Now, they may have at least reconsidered usage by their own customers, but it was very odd to me that even that was not obvious to them.

I can't believe that, what, 20 cents worth of electricity that might be consumed by someone popping across the street to Rubios #1 for lunch, or whose car is there being washed by the prep guys (who explicitly solicit such return visits) would even register on their electric bill considering the amount of lot lighting. Heck, I'd even pop a quarter into an empty gumball machine if it's about the money...but it should be about the EV revolution, man! They should be ecstatic to have happy Leaf owners pulling in and out, putting their cars on display for a brief period here and there.

Boggles my mind. If it's not a mandate from Nissan corporate it certainly should be.

I spoke with a VP at Nissan Corporate. The bottom line - Pacific Nissan is in violation of their agreement with Nissan USA, and "this communication issue will be investigated." My tweets about this also resulted in several calls/complaints from others. :twisted:

wsbca said:

Jimmydreams said:

I am waiting for a call from the general manager. I called this morning, so we'll see if I get a return call or not.

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Will be interesting to hear what they say.

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6 hours and no call-back yet. I was very clear in my voicemail about the question for my call: Are the chargers there for PN Leaf customers only, or can any Leaf owner stop in for a charge?

How hard can that be to answer....or maybe he's busy explaining himself to Nissan USA about how and why he's violating his agreement. :twisted:

I'll bet if I told him I was interested in a new Nissan car, I'd get a call back before I could even hang up!!!

Kelangst said:

I spoke with a VP at Nissan Corporate. The bottom line - Pacific Nissan is in violation of their agreement with Nissan USA, and "this communication issue will be investigated." My tweets about this also resulted in several calls/complaints from others. :twisted:

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I am so happy to hear you were able to escalate this to that level. This is something that really needs to be nipped in the bud before a dealer strands someone in the middle of nowhere. Besides, I get this ridiculous grin every time I think of that smug bastard getting reamed out and being forced to apologize! :mrgreen:

Were those other complaints just people outraged about your story, or did you flush out other instances of this happening?

garygid said:

2. Has the Nissan QC unit even been submitted for UL Listing?
Does it even NEED UL Listing?

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The Nissan unit is just for Japan, first they need to design and manufacture one for the US.. one that is compatible with the usual type of power available at a dealership.. 240V?

I think dealers would want people coming by at regular intervals, its good for business and eventually you will bite and buy a new car. L3 charging could get expensive in California, depending on the rates they pay for electricity.

I can't imagine that a dealer would not have access to a 480vac supply. Most commercial properties do.

Herm said:

garygid said:

2. Has the Nissan QC unit even been submitted for UL Listing?
Does it even NEED UL Listing?

Click to expand...

The Nissan unit is just for Japan, first they need to design and manufacture one for the US.. one that is compatible with the usual type of power available at a dealership.. 240V?

I think dealers would want people coming by at regular intervals, its good for business and eventually you will bite and buy a new car. L3 charging could get expensive in California, depending on the rates they pay for electricity.

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http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=55206#p55206

Nissan's own quick charger. Standard model. Nissan plans to install 2,200 units at [US] dealers nationwide.

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Rake said:

I can't imagine that a dealer would not have access to a 480vac supply. Most commercial properties do.

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I'm not sure of the exact requirements for Nissan's DC Quick Charger, however to do DC Quick Charging 480v service is not required.

Herm said:

.. one that is compatible with the usual type of power available at a dealership.. 240V?

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I wasn't speaking directly about the chargers themselves, but as to the availability of 3 phase power, which is typically 480V at the commercial/industrial level.

The charger itself uses 3 phase, 208V input, not single phase 240V (residential).
This is typically achieved by stepping down 3 phase 480V with a transformer, on the load side of the main service.

Jimmydreams said:

davewill said:

Jimmydreams said:

Thanks for the comments. I bought my Leaf at Pacific Nissan and have used their chargers twice. Seeing them turn away other Leafers is pathetic. I will call them tomorrow, speak to the manager and kindly inform him that due to that kind of behavior, I will not recommend them as a dealer, I will not charge there again, NOR will I bring my car to them for service.

...

edit: I think I'll just send and email and CC Nissan USA Customer Service. The manager can blow off my phone call, but he might have a harder time if corporate calls him.

Click to expand...

Did you ever do either of these and get any response?

Click to expand...

I am waiting for a call from the general manager. I called this morning, so we'll see if I get a return call or not.

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Over 24 hours and no response from the general manager at Pacific Nissan. Infer whatever you want.

Kelangst said:

I spoke with a VP at Nissan Corporate. The bottom line - Pacific Nissan is in violation of their agreement with Nissan USA, and "this communication issue will be investigated." My tweets about this also resulted in several calls/complaints from others. :twisted:

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yesss!! Power to the people! Dealerships like these will hopefully go the way of the do-do. And they're just stupid that they haven't caught on about this thing called the Internet, where people talk to each other and share their experiences.

I've started a list of Nissan dealers who allow public charging, and of those who don't, gathered from forum postings. It appears that Nissan America has a policy of "encouraging" dealers to permit non-customers to charge, and that this has led to at least one dealer changing their policy to permit public charging. (A big thank-you to "earther" of MNL and to Paul Smith of Nissan America!) So that dealer with the newly enlightened policy is listed with the "good guys." Currently it seems that all dealers provide free charging. But if some of them imposed a fee for all charging, or for charging by non-customers, I'd still count them as providing public charging.

I hope we can add to this list, especially more dealers who do allow public charging. And if Nissan is not able to persuade the other dealers to support the LEAF by allowing public charging, then I hope that at least they will remove them from the Carwings database so as not to entice unwitting drivers to visit them when in need.

Can you imagine the call to Nissan Roadside Assistance to tow a discharged Leaf? Pickup from Pacific Nissan. Deliver car to closest Nissan dealer. Pacific Nissan tow truck responds. Carries car around parking lot and drops it down again. Manager again refuses to allow recharging. Second call to Roadside Assistance...

Dealers reported to allow public charging:

Campbell Nelson Nissan, Edmonds, Wa
Connell Nissan, Costa Mesa, CA
Downtown LA Nissan
Mossy Nissan, San Diego, CA
Premier Nissan, San Jose, CA
Razzari Nissan, Merced, CA
Stevens Creek Nissan, San Jose, CA
Valencia Nissan, CA

Dealers reported NOT to allow public charging:

Pacific Nissan, San Diego, CA
Santa Monica Nissan, CA

Details of dealers allowing public charging:

Campbell Nelson Nissan in Edmonds, Wa

Other details : Campbell Nelson will also be installing the commercial 440 volt charging stations that will be offered for free
[email protected]
[email protected]
Toll free: 800-920-2798
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=445

Home of the free service loaners
4 LVL2 free charging stations (3 of which are 24/7)
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3334

Connell in Costa Mesa

3 L2 stations on the front of the dealer showroom that are fully available to the public (and I believe they have two or three more in the service bays just for in-house use). Be sure to call ahead though....they are courtesy charging Volt's from the Chevy dealership next door (same ownership), so they can be crowded at times. The funny thing about that is the Chevy dealership manager balked about putting L2s in, saying he wouldn't need to charge them on anything other than L1.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2249

Downtown LA Nissan

open to the public for sure.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1851

Nissan of Elk Grove located in Sacramento, CA

We will also have charging stations available on site absolutely free of charge...or to charge.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=951

Mossy Nissan in San Diego

They're not accessible 24/7, only business hours.
All (6) Mossy Nissan Locations in SD have L2 chargers in!
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2249

Premier Nissan, San Jose

Updated: Apparently this dealer is allowing charging. A few users had earlier reported it not.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3376

Razzari Nissan at Merced, CA

The charging stations that we have will be available to anyone 24/7
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2890

Stevens Creek Nissan, San Jose

Paul [Smith] at Nissan did in fact directly contact the general manager there to get Jack to explain Stevens Creek's policy and to impress upon him Nissan's desire that the dealership chargers be as available to all Leafs when possible. According to Paul, Jack said that the policy at Stevens Creek is that chargers WILL be available to ALL Leafs, within reason. (e.g. they wouldn't want a customer, Stevens Creek or otherwise, to simply camp out on one of their chargers hours all day every day, simply because they worked nearby. Also, in the event of a "queue", they would want to give priority to their own customers. All of which seems fair). Jack apologized if that policy was misrepresented or not known by Kahssay, and that he would make an announcement to all his staff to make certain that everyone at Stevens Creek is aware of and adheres to that policy.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3719&start=50

Valencia Nissan

I also asked Sam if any Leafers are welcome to use the public charging station they have over there, he asked the service manager and the answer was yes. (Although I would imagine it would be only during business hour). It's a nice location cause you can walk across 2 streets and Valencia Mall is right there.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3301

Details of dealers not allowing public charging:

Pacific Nissan, San Diego

The manager basically told me that since I bought my car at a different dealer, I should just "take yourself" over to them and let them pay. I even offered to pay $10 to charge. nope. I received a lecture about how he was a for profit company.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=75665

I spoke with a VP at Nissan Corporate. The bottom line - Pacific Nissan is in violation of their agreement with Nissan USA, and "this communication issue will be investigated."
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2111&start=40

Over 24 hours and no response from the general manager at Pacific Nissan. Infer whatever you want.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2111&start=50

There were no ramifications on Pacific for their identical charging policy that were potent enough for them to change their stand. As of yesterday, their EVSE equipment usage is still limited to their customers only, according to the conversation I had with them.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3376

Santa Monica Nissan ???off-hours only???

I discovered that someone had unplugged the charger from my car
P.S. This does point out why every Nissan dealer should be required to have at least one charger that is accessible 24/7!
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3157

Reports of Nissan America's public charging policy

I attended a function today with a couple of local Nissan dealers. They told me that Nissan is also asking (making?) all Certified Leaf Dealers to make at least one charging dock available to any Leaf on the road.

I heard two....two available to the public and two in the service area.
REF: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1683

walterbays said:

I've started a list of Nissan dealers who allow public charging, and of those who don't, gathered from forum postings. It appears that Nissan America has a policy of "encouraging" dealers to permit non-customers to charge, and that this has led to at least one dealer changing their policy to permit public charging.

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I visited Serramonte Nissan in Colma, CA and one of their employees said I can charge my LEAF even though it was purchased at another dealer. I was driving my Prius so didn't have a chance to test their L2 dock (two located on the right-hand side of the main building).

Weseloh Nissan, in San Juan Capistrano, CA
all LEAFs, 24/7

OC Nissan Irvine, in Irvine, CA
Only while open, apparently all LEAFs

Connell Nissan, in Costa Mesa, CA
apparently all LEAFs, probably 24/7

Tustin Nissan, in Tustin, CA
maybe 24/7 soon, apparently all LEAFs