GRA
Well-known member
CAFCP list showing status of all existing or planned California H2 stations as of 5/31/17: http://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/h2_station_list.pdf
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/06/20170616-cec.htmlCalifornia Energy Commission awards $17M to expand hydrogen refueling infrastructure
These are all sites previously chosen for grant awards under GFO 15-605 (see upthread). My guess is that this is actually giving the money to these particular sites, presumably because they've met all the requirements to do so.. . . FirstElement Fuel, Inc. will develop eight hydrogen refueling stations. Five of those will be located in Southern California: in Huntington Beach, Irvine, San Diego, Santa Monica, and Sherman Oaks. The remaining three will be in the San Francisco Bay Area: in Campbell, Oakland and Sunnyvale.
Air Liquide Advanced Technologies US, LLC received funds for a refueling station in Santa Nella that will connect the Southern California and the Bay Area stations. . . .
When you have lost GRA, you might as well give up.GRA said:So, for H2/FCEVs to have any hope of succeeding here, they have to increase the rate of installations of stations, especially those that allow access to more areas of the state, and they must also bring the prices of H2 and the cars down substantially, and improve their performance. Both the Mirai and Clarity are fully-equipped compared to the base Model 3, so they can be de-contented by several thousand dollars, but they really need to up their game performance-wise at the same time. And H2 still needs to be brought down to where the price/kg. is approximately double the price of gas/gallon for it to compete.
I'm not sure who you're saying has lost. I have lost nothing, as I don't care which ZEV tech succeeds. Now, the FCEV manufacturers and H2 suppliers may have lost, and if they don't get a move on I believe that will be the case here, which was always going to be a tough market given our low gas prices - I've always said their odds for success were much better in Europe and Asia where gas prices were higher. I think they've got at most another two years here to have a chance, or BEVs and their infrastructure will have built an insurmountable lead. In other regions the situation is more favorable to them.evnow said:When you have lost GRA, you might as well give up.GRA said:So, for H2/FCEVs to have any hope of succeeding here, they have to increase the rate of installations of stations, especially those that allow access to more areas of the state, and they must also bring the prices of H2 and the cars down substantially, and improve their performance. Both the Mirai and Clarity are fully-equipped compared to the base Model 3, so they can be de-contented by several thousand dollars, but they really need to up their game performance-wise at the same time. And H2 still needs to be brought down to where the price/kg. is approximately double the price of gas/gallon for it to compete.
Was all the time spent on H2 worth it ? I still regret the time I spent on HD-DVD.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/08/20170810-cec.htmlCalifornia Energy Commission awards more than $16M to Equilon for 7 new H2 stations in Nor Cal; 60 funded
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/11/20171110-calh2.htmlFive additional hydrogen stations proposed for California
Unfortunately, they didn't expand the network to allow travel to any new areas, as these just add local urban capacity. They need to do both to emphasize an FCEV's operational advantages over BEVs for renters and road trips.The California Energy Commission has issued a “Revised Notice of Proposed Awards” that recommends five additional hydrogen fueling stations previously recommended for funding by Energy Commission staff. The newly awarded stations are:
Beverly Hills (FirstElement Fuel)
Studio City (FirstElement Fuel)
San Jose (Shell)
Redwood City (FirstElement Fuel)
Mission Hills (FirstElement Fuel)
The Energy Commission’s commissioners must approve the awards at an upcoming meeting before they are considered “awarded.” With this addition, California has a total of 66 retail hydrogen stations open, in development, and proposed.
There is certainly a way to go, and no one has ever said otherwise. OTOH, tossing around figures like $100k loss per Mirai for Toyota is based on what evidence - only Toyota knows how much each Mirai costs them, and they're not saying. As Toyota, along with Honda and Hyundai are still eating ca. $15k in fuel costs per FCEV, the cost to the consumer per mile remains zero up to that limit.SageBrush said:The ARB report reads like an advert.
I was surprised to read that H2 still costs $10 a Kg despite the majority being sourced from NG. For the Mirai that works out to ~ 16 cents a mile ... for a car that costs $57k to the consumer ... that is thought to cost Toyota $100k in losses on every car.
They have a LONG way to go, California funded H2 fueling stations or not.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180114-doe.htmlDOE analysis suggests rapid convergence of FCEV and BEV TCOs; FCEVs less expensive for majority of LDV fleet by 2040; mass compounding
GRA said:As Toyota, along with Honda and Hyundai are still eating ca. $15k in fuel costs per FCEV
Uh huh, and at $4/kg., DoE's target price for H2, it will be more than competitive with gas. Who knows when either tech will actually get there.WetEV said:GRA said:As Toyota, along with Honda and Hyundai are still eating ca. $15k in fuel costs per FCEV
At $150 per kWh, the expected battery cell cost in 2025, that would be the same as adding 100kWh.
Me either. I've tried to find it where it's not behind a paywall, but no luck.SageBrush said:I'm not going to spend $35 to read the article -- nice entertainment notwithstanding.
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